LOL. How were Spurs ever 'expected' to finish 2nd, 3rd etc. i think it's been pretty obvious Spurs have been one of the most organised, well coached/drilled sides in the league these past three seasons. Of course we have over achieved, look at what we spend on transfer and wages compared to our rivals and look where we finish. I won't even bother responding the Moyes comparison...clueless.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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LOL. How were Spurs ever 'expected' to finish 2nd, 3rd etc. i think it's been pretty obvious Spurs have been one of the most organised, well coached/drilled sides in the league these past three seasons. Of course we have over achieved, look at what we spend on transfer and wages compared to our rivals and look where we finish. I won't even bother responding the Moyes comparison...clueless.
Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.
Unbelievable isn't it? What is the guy smoking? Replacing Poch, one of the highest rated young managers around who has led Spurs to 2nd and 3rd, for a dinosaur who got sacked by United and an apprentice who got sacked after 5 odd games at Palace. You just have to laugh.
Spot on mate, some really silly posts for sure.
Poch has already said his main aim is the title and the CL, however unrealistic that may be, and on top of that, regular CL football. That is crucial to the development of the club into one of the elite clubs in Europe. Winning a league cup or dare I say it the FA Cup, isn't going to have the top players in europe scrambling to come to Spurs and it's not going to put us into the big time financially. It would be great for the club to win anything don't get me wrong but if we won the league cup what then? It suddenly catapults Poch into the big time? Do me a favour. At the end of the day the domestic cups are a nice to have but finishing top 4 so you are sat at europe's top table, aiming to get to the QF/SF/Final of the CL and winning the league is really what it's all about and for a club who have a relatively small squad compared to their rivals, Spurs simply have to prioritise competitions and it's transpired that in the last two seasons we have been chasing down the league leaders and we have failed to turn up for certain big cup games.
I do think Poch has under performed in the cups so far at Spurs really, particularly the disappointing loss to Chelsea in the FA Cup semi finals last season, although losing to the PL Champions isn't the worst thing in the world. But he's done so well for us in the league, you can't really criticise him too much.
No there aren't. There is just one who plays for Bayern Munich and even then, on recent form Kane is better.
I'd love you to explain how Costa, Icardi and Aubemyang are better than Kane? Because they don't score nearly as much as Kane does.
I mean, Kane outscores everyone. He's posting Messi and Ronaldo like numbers FFS. Players like Costa aren't even close to him.
He's smashing goals in the CL, the PL, all cups and his goals per game ratio is improving all the time.
As it stands, Lewandowski and Kane are the undisputed top 2 strikers in Europe/World football.
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Suarez is back in form.
Your club needs to hire a coach with a winning mentality/identity to compensate for the lack of one at your club. Pochettino, like Tottenham, has yet to prove to be anything more than a lovable loser.
You lot like to moan about resources (which to an extent i agree with), but look at Ranieri’s comparative resources when Spurs bottled the title race against him.....it ultimately comes down to bad/naive management.
Regarding De Boer, he was a stupid appointment by Palace - his Ajax methodology was always going to be beyond the likes Scott Dann and Puncheon; give him your squad and they’ll facilitate his philosophy. He personally developed Alderweireld and Vertonghen into elite, ball-playing defenders, guided a baby Eriksen and is also an advocate of youth integration - allowing you to sustain the momentum and ideology of the project. Winks, for example, would be perfect under him....and unlike Pochettino, he understands the importance of attacking width in a possession team.
You’ve peaked under Pocchettino, and the success ship has now sailed; without a new direction and renewed faith in your ability to win, your underpaid, medal-missing players will look to attain the silverware and salaries their talents deserve elsewhere.
Cheers
@InLevyITrust
Sorry to just butt in, but I was enjoying the heated exchanges between several of posters and wanted to add something to the underperforming/on par discussion you were having. Since no one else bothered: You mention injuries as a qualifier for you having a good season.
Pogba has played 13 out of 23 in the PL.
Manchester United haven’t lost a game with Pogba in the team for 15 months (in the PL).
Sorry to just butt in, but I was enjoying the heated exchanges between several of posters and wanted to add something to the underperforming/on par discussion you were having. Since no one else bothered: You mention injuries as a qualifier for you having a good season.
Pogba has played 13 out of 23 in the PL.
Manchester United haven’t lost a game with Pogba in the team for 15 months (in the PL).
I don't think we are having as good a season in the league as we could be having TBH. I think if we had Wanyama especially fit we would have picked up more points. Pogba is clearly a big miss, the stats show it. Yeah the Spurs thread tend to be headed and I don't really know why they seem to get hostile.
Yeah, most first XI players are important, just wanted to clarify that if any of the top teams have a case for struggling because of injuries, we are right up there on that list.
As for the actual topic of the op, Pochettino is clearly a great manager. No two ways about it.
I have always said we need to win a trophy very very soon! We can only kick on once that happens.
Probably should to kick on. I am not sure it matters if it’s PL or FAC though. Remember SAF was talking a lot about that League Cup win in 2006 as a catalyst and an important learning experience for a lot of the younger players who hadn’t won something before.
Keep wishing. The majority of the players Ive mentioned have been scoring as regularly as Kane has been over that last three seasons at club level, and even out score him at international level
Costa twice was the top scorer of a team he lead to a league title. Twice. Kane's goals can't even secure Spurs a league cup. He definitely qualifies as better or as good as Kane.
Icardi is every bit as good as Kane. Keeping in double figures the last 3 seasons in a defensive, tactical league in a weaker team than Spurs.
As for Aubameyang. Since 2013/2014 he has hit 141 goals in 212 appearances. Including
26 in 46 in Europe. Despite converting from a wide player. Kane in that period has scored 127 in 192 and only 18 in 39 in Europe. He definitely qualifies as good or better than Kane
you are delusional. Nobody has been posting Messi, Ronaldo numbers.Bullshit.
Il stick with Poch thanks
Even if you finish outside the top 4?
Do you think Mourinho/Conte would have won the league with your squad in the past 2 seasons?
Wow! That's embarrassing! Like clubs aren't allowed to grow? Like some clubs belong at the top and some don't just cause? Clubs belong where they finish each season! nothing more, nothing less. That sense of entitlement belongs at RAWK. Thought this place was better than that. Funny comment on here. I get that Glaston winds people up but come on comments like this make you sound petty, along with comments like "Good, then we can have a top 4 again, A top 6 is too much IMO"
LOL! Rough translation "don't like more teams being able to compete with us!"
the reason there's more and more resentment towards us (Glaston aside) is because you can see we're good. Long may it continue. You'd all love Kane Alli, Alderwierald, Eriksen Poch etc to leave cause it'd suit it. I'm reading there'll be improved contracts for all and they're all happy. Who knows. Maybe they are all desperate to get out of Tottenham, it's all speculation. Levy said no key players will be leaving this summer. Good enough for me.
They wouldn't have developed Spurs's squad into title contenders. Poch has coached and improved many players to levels most didn't forsee.
Yup, il stick with him. This season has been tricky with the stadium situation. Over the past few seasons we have always finished stronger so we're still in top 4 contention. Next month is a massive one however.
Honestly I have no idea, if I'm honest I would say Jose probably would. We couldn't attract a manager of that pedigree anyway, we have to go with a manager who's willing to work without a war chest. I'm not a De Boar fan TBH, failed at Inter and Palace, yes he should have been given more time but I just don't warm to the guy.
What exactly have you disproven? You just listed a bunch of names and declared them better even though Kane had the highest goal tally in 2017. Nice ad hominem btw.
You completely missed the point. Leciester also finished ahead of Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea(managed by Mourinho), and Manchester City. Not just Spurs and Arsenal. So to bring up Leciester winning the league as a knock on Pochettino is a weird argument to make.
I'm not claiming Pochettino is the best manager in the world or anything of the sort. I'm merely disputing your absurd notion that he is some mediocre, overhyped manager. His track record speaks for itself, regardless if you choose to stick your fingers in your ears.
Oh so now managers aren't judged by expectations? You're making less and less sense.
Mourinho is slammed for his performances again top 6 teams mainly b/c he has the 2nd most expensive squad in the league. Expectations do matter
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And now since you have vented a bit, go read the rest of the thread, esp. the part where i said it wasn't meant as an insult.
Like @AP88 said you need a coach that knows how to win. What resentment are you talking about? You can have all of them and in a sporting sense i hope you keep your manager and players, only one worth a note on your team is Kane. I'm just trying to understand what makes Poch so damn brilliant in your minds. He has done nothing of note and yet some people sing him praises all day long. Mourinho won everything there is to win in the sport and gets more stick, "he's past it" comments, but somehow Poch is the future. Yeah, the future of average, just like your club.
i've said nothing against Mourinho, good manager this thread isn't about him (He gets stick because of how he acts and what he's said etc I'm sure you loved him when he was Chelsea boss). only player worth a note is Kane? that's just silly were the only side that had 3 different players to score over 20 goals last year! Our club is average? we've been 3rd and 2nd last two seasons! Ahead of you both times by the way I'm all for a bit of fun but at least I respect United and get that your arrogance comes from a place of previous success, fair enough but don't go on like we're Southampton or West ham.
We're only in the position we're in now because of Pochettino. for years we were finishing between 15-6th That's not us anymore I feel like the way you speak that's where you think we still are. We're better now. Think we warrant a bit of respect. You're entitled to your opinion but it smacks of entitlement.
Every other post in this thread is just excuse after excuse. First it's the money, lack of time, then it's the stadium, next it will be the tea ladys fault. And yet with your "great" manager and "world class" players you still haven't won anything, you couldn't even mount a title challenge since forever.
You seriously think that the new stadium will help out with anything? Go ask arse fans how that worked out for them.
What track record? Seriously, what track record are you talking about?
The stadium will increase our revenue, I think your levelling things at me that I haven't said lol. We are nowhere is rich as 3-4 other clubs, we don't have a home stadium, I have no idea what the tea lady has done though, she makes a good cuppa.
LOL, sorry, but you mentioned that this season has been tricky due to the stadium situation. I get it that it'll help increase your budget and all but i think that it won't help that much as in project you as title challengers.
The stadium situation has to do with effectively playing zero home games.
I predicted Spurs would struggle because they would lose the advantage of WHL.
I predicted Spurs would struggle because they would lose the advantage of WHL.
What does his goals securing or not securing a league cup have to do with, well anything? We are looking at Kane as a pure out and out striker.
Lets look at some direct comparisons. Kane burst onto the scene in the 14-15 season, so I will look at stats from then. And as a lot of the players that we are comparing are young they didnt really hit their stride to around that time anyway. The standout season is Suarez's 2015-16 season, amazing really. Admittedly that is in a team with a front three of Messi, Neymar, Suarez.
Lewandowski and Suarez, still riding high as probably the best out and out strikers in Europe. Auba, Cavani and Kane all posting similar numbers over this period sitting just below Suarez and Lewandowski.
Costa and Griezmann, not even sure how they are in this discussion with Kane, and not in the same league as Lewandowski/Suarez. Icardi is doing well but a little behind Auba, Cavani and Kane.
If you are a club looking to secure a striker for the future Kane is certainly a good bet, because he is 24 and is contracted to 2022? is why he is commanding such a high fee. Icardi is the same age and definitely a good investment if a club wanted to move for him. Aubemayang is at his peak right now, but is at a good club already in Dortmund. Cavani and Suarez have hit the magical 30 and for Lewandowski/Costa it is just around the corner.
Costa
2014-15 26apps 20goals
2015-16 28apps 12goals
2016-17 35apps 20goals
2017-18* 1app 1goal
overall 90apps 53goals ratio: 0.59
Icardi
2014-15 36apps 22goals
2015-16 33apps 16goals
2016-17 34apps 24goals
2017-18* 20apps 18goals
overall 123apps 80goals ratio: 0.65
Cavani
2014-15 35apps 18goals
2015-16 32apps 19goals
2016-17 36apps 35goals
2017-18* 19apps 19goals
overall 122apps 91goals ratio: 0.75
Aubameyang
2014-15 33apps 16goals
2015-16 31apps 25goals
2016-17 32apps 31goals
2017-18* 15apps 13goals
overall 111apps 85goals ratio: 0.77
Griezmann
2014-15 37apps 22goals
2015-16 38apps 22goals
2016-17 36apps 16goals
2017-18* 15apps 5goals
overall 126apps 65goals ratio: 0.52
Suarez
2014-15 27apps 16goals
2015-16 35apps 40goals
2016-17 35apps 29goals
2017-18* 16apps 13goals
overall 113apps 98goals ratio: 0.87
Lewandowski
2014-15 31apps 17goals
2015-16 32apps 30goals
2016-17 33apps 30goals
2017-18* 17apps 15goals
overall 113apps 92goals ratio: 0.81
Kane
2014-15 34apps 21goals
2015-16 38apps 25goals
2016-17 30apps 29goals
2017-18* 22apps 20goals
overall 124apps 95goals ratio: 0.77
We have no real right to win the league, it's all part of our progression. Who knows I haven't said we're gonna win the league I hope we can continue to progress and start winning some silverware.
Of course you have the right. I'd rather see Spurs win it then any of our rivals.
Yeah, but i think it ain't going to happen with Poch. And don't even get me started on Levy, he's a much bigger problem.
Chelsea would be better keeping their heads rather than mouthing off.
That's a fair assessment to be honest. Think you guys have an excellent first eleven but the lack of depth is a huge issue for you, just stronger back-up players for when injuries hit and for that competetive spirit within the squad and I do believe you can take huge steps forward. On your good days you truly look like title challengers but then something happens and you looked switched off for a few games, costing you way to much to be able to challenge seriously and the lack of squad depth makes it hard for poch to do the changes needed and easy for your players to keep their name in the 1st eleven even though they are playing poorly.
Puhlease. I listed a number of players who are either a)as good or b) better than Kane. In your mind you decided all on your own that everyone I listed was called better than Kane. I'm not responsible for you failure to understand my post. I also don't care if you Kane scored the most goals in 2017. A standard football season runs from August to May, Not January to February.
It also not an ad hominem to call out this fanboish attachment you have to Kane. Listing him laughably as one of the top 2 strikers in the world.
There was nothing to miss for you didnt have any.
You are the one still missing the point. The likes of Klopp, Mourinho/Hidink, Wenger, Van Gaal are not managers who are vying to prove themselves to big clubs like Pochetino. Plus all of them, only Wenger kept using the excuse of lack of funds as to why he couldn't win the league.
Since the likes of you are so hell bent on insisting Pochetino is a top tier manager. Why couldn't he beat a Leicester to the title with a superior side and resources? And why is his overall record vs top rivals so bad?
The only thing absurd here is your increasingly farcical understanding of my posts. At no point have I painted Pochetino as mediocre, nor called him mediocre. That is all in your head. Furthermore, there is no doubt he is over hyped. Your statements in defence of him in here are proof enough. As is his record vs rival clubs when put under strong scrutiny.
No dude. Its you rather simply proving a repeated failure to understand yet again. Leicester City won the EPL title in spite of expectations and a lack of resources. Its amazing this simply reality keeps failing to register with you. I also don't know where you got the ludicrous notion that such an argument entails not judging managers via expectations.
Correct. Yet here you are telling us we should not look at Pochetino's record vs the top 6 rivals or the fact with superior resources he couldn't best a Leicester City to an EPL title and we shouldn't expect him to be doing better, if he is indeed a top tier manager as you claim. How does that work exactly?
Maybe in the argument you want to have. The one I was having was one in which I was answering a query as to why Diego Costa is as good or better than Harry Kane.
I don't agree. Harry Kane first came on to the scene in 2013/2014, when he made up to 10 league appearances. Then his goals shot up the following season because he had finally become first choice as a result of his previous season's work
For what reason have you left out European goals? And deliberately leaving out the 2013/14 season from the reckon heavily slants things in Kane's favour.
I was waiting for the new stadium line. Well done.
Hes not as good as of the past 4 seasons, not as good on form currently. Over the course of his career id say Kane is better, Costa's best season was his 13/14 season for Atletico where he posted 27 goals in 35 appearances. Before that season he never posted more than 10 goals in a season despite appearance numbers like 34, 28, 16, 31
You would have to include every players first season where they are finding their feet in their respective leagues if I included this season for Kane. For example Griezmann's first season with Sociedad in La Liga was the 10/11 season where he had 37 appearances for 7 goals. Likewise Auba's first season where he was finding his feet was St. Etienne in 10/11 after he had finished loan spells with Dijon, Lille, and Monaco. In that season he made 14 appearances for 2 goals. Costas first season in La Liga(09/10) for Valldolid seen him post 8 goals in 34 appearances.
You are looking at a 20 yo player just integrating into the team and finding his feet in the EPL. His breakout season where he really came to attention was the 2014/15 season. I'd barely heard of him until that season, i knew he was a youth product that had a good scoring pedigree and did some loan spells but knew very little about him up until 14/15.
Because they are scattered for the players between Champions league/Europa league against varied opposition, scoring a brace vs Trabzonspor in the Europa league is not the same as netting against Barca or RM. There was too much variance in opposition, I felt the leagues were more stable opposition wise. I also left out assists, as I was looking mainly at goals as that is what strikers deal in. I also didnt bother to mention dominance of teams in respective leagues such as Cavani's stats as a money bags team in the French league or Barca's dominance and the effects that could have on say Suarez's stats.
This is my last post on the Kane subject as the thread is about Pochettino, not Kane or Spurs.
Keep wishing. The majority of the players Ive mentioned have been scoring as regularly as Kane has been over that last three seasons at club level, and even out score him at international level
Costa twice was the top scorer of a team he lead to a league title. Twice. Kane's goals can't even secure Spurs a league cup. He definitely qualifies as better or as good as Kane.
Icardi is every bit as good as Kane. Keeping in double figures the last 3 seasons in a defensive, tactical league in a weaker team than Spurs.
As for Aubameyang. Since 2013/2014 he has hit 141 goals in 212 appearances. Including
26 in 46 in Europe. Despite converting from a wide player. Kane in that period has scored 127 in 192 and only 18 in 39 in Europe. He definitely qualifies as good or better than Kane
Bullshit.
Icardi/Costa better than Kane? You must be one of the only people in Europe who think that. If Kane was playing for Chelsea last season they would have walked the league by an even greater margin. Get real. The fact you judge a striker's level by how many trophies they win shows your deluded thinking. In your book, because Costa won a league, and Kane won nothing, Costa is better. It's pure nonsense.
Aubameyang is playing in a weaker league than the PL, Kane is scoring more goals in a tougher league. Aubameyang is a terrific striker but Kane is better. Ask United fans who they would rather have? Ask Madrid fans even.
Kane isn't posting Messi like numbers?
Harry Kane has overtaken Lionel Messi to finish as Europe’s top scorer in 2017 with 56 goals.
The Tottenham striker gave himself a solid chance to overtake the Barcelona forward by scoring a hat-trick against Burnley on Saturday.
Kane equalled Messi on 54 goals for club and country in 2017 with his opener against Southampton on Boxing Day, but then moved ahead of the Argentine by completing his hat-trick at Wembley.
Not only has Kane beaten Messi to the record, he’s also finished ahead of Cristiano Ronaldo, Robert Lewandowski and Edinson Cavani.
Err yeah, those are Messi like numbers.
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He's a good manager, but I think people are severely underrating this Spurs team. They have the best striker on the planet, an attack which (at their best) are as good as any in the league, the best defence in the league. They should have been a lot closer to a title than they have managed.
Surely Poch gets credit for improving the players? Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Rose, Walker, Dier, Dembele, Kane, Son, Eriksen, have all improved outrageously and are all playing the best football of their careers under Poch. Son was signed for 20 million and is now one of the best wide attacking forwards in the league, his improvement is such that he is in amongst the very best wide players in this league both assists and goals wise.
It doesn't really wash that you say the players are good anyway. Rose, Walker were not among the best full backs in the league before Poch came along, now they are. You say Spurs have the best defence and one of the best attacks, surely that is down to Poch's excellent organisation, management and tactical preperation. It doesn't happen by accident.
Gary Neville and Carragher have said time and again over the last few years Spurs are the best coached side in the league, well, before City went crazy this season under Pep.
It's there clear as day he improves players as good as any other manager in the league for sure, in fact he's easily one of the best. When was the last time Wenger improved a player for example? All the players regress under him.
He still has Spurs in touch with the top 4 despite playing 23 away games so far this season. I actually think people are being ridiculously harsh on him and its a classic case of people trying to bring him down because he was so highly regarded, he's doing a tremendous job.
One moment Pochettino is an amazing coach for making Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Wanyama etc. into great players, the next moment he can't challenge for the title because he needs money to buy great players. Whatever makes Pochettino look good is what will be the 'correct' answer.
Virtually everyone will ignore the obvious because it breaks their fantasy. Pochettino does not need £150m+ for a top striker and CAM because he has Kane and Eriksen, He does not need £50m for a DM because he has Dier, He does not need £50m for a CB or FB because he has Alder, Vertonghen, Rose, Trippier. Nevermind Son and Alli who would cost a fortune in this market to replace.
This Spurs team are VERY good and have every right to challenge for silverware. The fact that Spurs can't spend as much as their rivals is of little consequence because they have a team with an EXTREMELY high market value.
In my opinion; the above only leads to one conclusion. Pochettino is a very good developer of players (and he deserves credit getting Spurs to where they are) but is lacking in other key areas to make him a top manager. I would say with conviction that Mourinho would win silverware with this Spurs team if he tookover next season; because he did it with a clearly inferior team last season.