The question is, can any manager do what he did with Spurs? Building this top side, and became top 4 regular with some how a limited budget comparing with other top teams? My answer is no and that's how good he is.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Pretty much this. If that was us it would be "we have a crap manager but individual brilliance and ref saved us".
And last season Pep finished 15 points behind chelsea
We hired a manager who was sacked after a mid table slog
Doesn't always work that way...
It certainly doesn't, not when you compare him to a manager who has been at a club for nearly 4 years with an established player base, and a trophy haul of exactly 0.
Actually, quite a few managers have managed to win nothing with Spurs.
Tbh, they probably are where they should be or just a bit better in terms of league position. He always flops in the cups too.
I thought it was naive the way they tried to play out from the back in the first half. You know Liverpool will press the sh*t out of you and it’s not like Sanchez is Pique and Dier Busquets.
I thought it was naive the way they tried to play out from the back in the first half. You know Liverpool will press the sh*t out of you and it’s not like Sanchez is Pique and Dier Busquets.
Yes let's just casually ignore the fact that the club he manages can't compete financially with the rest of the big clubs, thus putting him at a significant disadvantage, and despite this he's established Spurs as one of the best teams in the country, capable of going toe to toe with anyone, and playing positive, attacking football while doing so (which is more than one can say about certain other people).
Though it is interesting to see how eager some people are to put him and his achievements down because they perceive him as a threat to their dear leader.
Lol ... United began the post-Fergie era with the inheritance of a title-winning team. And since then have outspent Spurs in net terms by something like 17/18 to 1. If you factor in wages, that ratio would be well over 20:1
More than twenty to one!
What Pochettino has achieved in making Spurs competitive - to the point where hardly any teams in the Prem or in Europe will be confident of beating us on any given day - is nothing short of miraculous.
That's funny. Because it was only a couple of months ago we were being told by the Cafe that Spurs had a better team than us. Now that they're well off the pace that notion seems to have died down.
Yes. Our dear leader who did exactly what you are wildly praising Poch for doing, only he actually won trophies. He's earned his position at this club for his past exploits.
You spend your days on this forum telling us how incredible Kane and Eriksen and Alli and Alderweireld and any other player currently donning a white shirt, yet when it actually comes to performance, it's only finances that matter, right? You think its miraculous that Spurs are currently 5th with the player base you have? He's a god!
By all means celebrate your thriftiness, but reserve that praise for Levy. Poch has sod all to do with it.
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I've never said that "only finances matter", but clearly having lots of money to spend gives a clear and large advantage. Five clubs in the Prem have had more money to spend than us - in most cases vastly, vastly more.
Nor does it cut any ice to isolate a current snapshot of the league table, especially when the season still has a fair way to run and we are only 2 points off 3rd. You need to look at our progression since Pochettino took over .. and that fact that we've reached the CL knockout stages, having topped the group stage, with a decent chance of going further.
So that's what you call working a miracle? Reaching the CL knockout stages with the group of players he has at his disposal. He's done a good job, but to use that as a basis to replace one of the greatest ever managers who currently has his team placed 5 points above yours is silly.
It's all moot anyway, he'll be at Real Madrid this time next season.
When have I said I want Pochettino to replace Mourinho? Obviously I wouldn't want that to happen.
Nor have I cited just this season's CL so far: Pochettino has taken Spurs to 5th, then 3rd, then 2nd in the league. If you had an ounce of grace then you might consider what he'd be able to do with hundreds of millions of extra pounds to send.
I think he's doing a brilliant job at Spurs. Not sure why he seems to attract so much criticism on here.
Are we just ignoring the fact that he's competing with 5 other teams all with greater resources? Simply stubbornly saying that he has to win a trophy to prove he's any good seems a very narrow-minded way of looking at things. I get the criticism of his big-game record, but is it really fair to expect Spurs to win the league when they're competing with in particular us, Man City, and Chelsea?
It's the defensive people that feel insulted by the suggestion that he be a candidate to manage us next. Can't take differing opinions in stride and move on. It has to turn into a personal vendetta against a man who's done quite well
You didnt, you just couldn't wait to butt into a conversation you hadn't read that was debating that very thing. Have a read of the thread of conversation I and another poster was having before you quoted me and then reevaluate.
I'll ask you again. Do you think it's a miracle that he has managed to qualify for the CL and consistently finish in the top four with the squad of players at his disposal? Because thats what you are saying. The irony of having you ramble on about how amazing your team is and yet this equally amazing manager has managed to win nothing with it. I dont give a damn about how thrifty you've been in the transfer market, that has absolutely sod all to do with Poch. Look at the players he has and what he's achieved with them. He's done well, nothing more, and to compare achievement with a manager of Jose's pedigree is laughable.
He isn't necessarily a miracle worker insofar as when he came into Spurs they were already a top six club generally speaking, but he's clearly done an excellent job in consistently competing with teams who have much more financial pull than his does. By all accounts they should be closer to Everton/Leicester and co than the rest of the big boys, so the fact he's got them up there competing with the rest of the top six on a regular basis is a very good achievement.
Obviously he does need to start winning things, but a manager can be seen as having done well at a club even if they don't have any trophies under their belt. There's a reasonable chance Mourinho won't win anything this season but we'll continue to say he's doing a fairly good job because he'll have demonstrated significant improvement in the league. And while his spell there is probably overrated (or was), plenty on here were singing the praises of Moyes when he was appointed as our manager in spite of the fact he'd won feck all.
Obviously he does need to start winning things, but a manager can be seen as having done well at a club even if they don't have any trophies under their belt. There's a reasonable chance Mourinho won't win anything this season but we'll continue to say he's doing a fairly good job because he'll have demonstrated significant improvement in the league. And while his spell there is probably overrated (or was), plenty on here were singing the praises of Moyes when he was appointed as our manager in spite of the fact he'd won feck all.
Again, you fall into the pitfalls of finances. You're confusing what Spurs have achieved and what Poch has. Hes benefitted massively from astute signings and shrewd business. Look at the squad of players at his disposal. You can't tell me they are significantly worse than those 5 sides? He isn't managing Brighton ffs.
That's a squad of players that Pochettino himself has specifically built while at Spurs. Look at their side when Sherwood was managing them; it was shite compared to what they have now.
Spurs operate with a director of football and recruitment, don't they?
I believe so, yeah. But I'd imagine Pochettino would certainly have some input in what players the club are trying to sign etc, and at what positions within the squad need strengthened or addressed.
Even putting aside transfers alone, it's under Pochettino that Kane got his first proper break and started to perform. He's not exactly worked miracles as such, but he's done a consistently good job for them, performs to a higher standard than where they should be relatively speaking, and has them playing football that's generally entertaining and decent to watch. A lot of the criticism he gets is bizarre.
Oh I agree. I wouldn't for one moment suggest he isn't a good manager, but there's a big difference between being good and being a miracle worker. There's this assumption that if he replaced Mourinho, a manager who has worked miracles with Inter and Porto, we would see a significant improvement. He's the flavour of the month at the moment, but I feel Spurs should be doing better this season than they currently are, particularly when you take into consideration the players at Poch's disposal. Would you say that's unreasonable?
I think it's a transfer committee with Poch, Levy, Chief of scout and director of football I believe. Not 100% sure, but I'm quite certain.
I'm quite certain that they won't sign a first team player without Pochettino's consent.
I truly feel that Poch has been doing a good job at Spurs. While he has done a good job with them, I don’t think their squad quality is that different from the rest of the top 6 sides. I think they are very lucky to have the players that develop into who they are. If you look at those players and put a value on them, their squad value is not far from the others. They may not be able to pay them as high of a wage but they are valuable players.
The one thing that will always follow managers like him is the lack of silverware. This is not due to them not being capable or their squad not being capable. It is down to the manager not willing to handle certain big games in a pragmatic way. They’re too stubborn for their own good. There is praise for managers like them but they will not leave a legacy that is tied to silverware.
The one thing that will always follow managers like him is the lack of silverware. This is not due to them not being capable or their squad not being capable. It is down to the manager not willing to handle certain big games in a pragmatic way. They’re too stubborn for their own good. There is praise for managers like them but they will not leave a legacy that is tied to silverware.
I'd struggle to see him as flavour of the month because his achievements with Spurs have been getting talked about since 15-16.
Mourinho's obviously a top manager but the past few years have unquestionably been the weakest of the managerial career thus far with the 14-15 season being the only one since his 2011-12 success with Real Madrid that'd go down as being particularly excellent. I don't necessarily think Pochettino's a better manager, but he has generally got Spurs operating to a similar level as us in recent years in spite of the fact he's got nowhere near the same resources as Mourinho has here. He wouldn't fix all of our problems if he was to come in, but I don't think it's ridiculous to suggest he'd be able to operate on a similar level to Mourinho.
I think Spurs are performing at around where they should be this season; in the mix competing for the Champions League. I think we're created enough of a gap to ensure they won't finish ahead of us but as it stands they could finish anywhere between 3rd and 6th, and since Liverpool and Chelsea haven't exactly always been reliable this season it's not absurd to suggest Spurs might pip one of them to a CL spot. Doing so would again be impressive for them, and even 5th's not that bad. If they hit a sudden slump and find themselves in 6th, distant behind the leading pack, then yeah, fair enough, but as it stands they're about where their side should be.
They have been his weakest, but he's still been successful in that time. If we are to talk about recent history then lets not forget it wasn't so long ago that Espanyol deemed Poch surplus to requirements.
So this essentially comes down to his shrewd transfer business then? He isn't exactly pulling up any trees with the players he has available to him. They certainly aren't punching above their weight in terms of performances with the quality of player they have. Being shrewd in the transfer market is going to make a club like United any better.
Obviously he has a good side, but without getting into too big a debate about how in charge managers are of signings, he did build that side. He took a chance on Kane when no-one rated him, signed Alli and Dier for very little money as kids from lower tiers and turned them into solid to top premier league players (depending on your opinion). He got the best out of players who had been middling till he arrived (Walker, Rose, Vertongen, heck, even Erikson). These are good achievements. He's made very good use of what he has had at his disposal.
And the finance argument shouldn't be dismissed so easily. It's not the be-all and end-all, but there's a big difference between City who can spend 50mil to replace an old veteran like Zabaleta with an accomplished and experienced fullback like Kyle Walker and Spurs, who lose Walker and rather than spend money to replace him rely on what they already have at the club: Kieran Tripper, who'd been bought earlier for a cut price and slowly eased into premier league action the previous season and Walker-Peters: promoted from the youth team.
Let me be clear, I'm not saying Poch is the best in the world. What I'm saying is that he's done very well with what he's had, but its too early to tell for sure what his level is. Yes he has very good players, and probably should be doing better in the league currently based on the squad he has and past performances, but he also has less depth to work with than any other top 6 manager bar probably Liverpool. His management of the resources at his disposal has allowed him to (lets be very frank here) overachieve with Spurs for at least his first couple of years.
Which brings me to the larger point, which is that it is (in my opinion) a little insane to write Poch off for not winning the league with the side he has. There are now 6 teams at the start of every season theoretically capable of winning the league (obviously I'm being generous with Arsenal, but the point stands). Assuming for the sake of argument that City do win the league this year and comfortably break the 90 point mark as they're projected to do, Spurs, and the other 5 teams competing have had to put up with two consecutive seasons of one team basically running away with it, almost to an unprecedented level. It's unrealistic to simply say "he should have won the league now with the side he has if he was any good" given the context of the last two years.
The other final thing to remember is that he's very young. He's still learning at the top level. Will he improve his big-game record, which for me is the one very legitimate criticism of his time at Spurs? Maybe yes, maybe no, but it seems a bit early to write him off for that as well.
Apologies for the length of the post, sort of took the ball and ran with it.
For me he has been brilliant with the caveat that he needs to win something or get to the finals.
Today's performance was excellent. Not many teams have taken control of the game against Liverpool at Anfield. Would be fascinating to see this spurs against city, both teams pressing and trying to keep possession against excellent pressing.
Today's performance was excellent. Not many teams have taken control of the game against Liverpool at Anfield. Would be fascinating to see this spurs against city, both teams pressing and trying to keep possession against excellent pressing.
If you want to take a serious look at Pochettino then you have to compare his CV with that of our current manager,there is an absolute chasm of a difference in trophies won, and Utd is all about winning trophies.
Also just take a look at the current league table,Utd are 7 pts and 6 goals better off than Spurs,Sorry but until Pochettino acquires some silverware then his CV just does not warrant at this moment in time any consideration for arguably the biggest job in football.
Imagine if we had Poch and Spurs had Jose and the league positions were the opposite to what they are now to a man we would be up in arms about Pochettinos unsuitability and with no experience of winning trophies and I really do not want Utd to be in that sort of position again!
Also just take a look at the current league table,Utd are 7 pts and 6 goals better off than Spurs,Sorry but until Pochettino acquires some silverware then his CV just does not warrant at this moment in time any consideration for arguably the biggest job in football.
Imagine if we had Poch and Spurs had Jose and the league positions were the opposite to what they are now to a man we would be up in arms about Pochettinos unsuitability and with no experience of winning trophies and I really do not want Utd to be in that sort of position again!
Tottenham is the perfect club for Pochettino as its owner does not demand trophies from him and allows him to build the squad they way he wants albeit with a restricted budget but time is given for players from the youth teams to be nurtured and integrated into the first team squad. It's a damn good way to build up a reputation before PSG or one of the Spanish giant come calling.
I don't think he's getting any criticism. Just putting thing where it is as Poch is overrated by numbers of people.
Baldini played a huge role acquiring, keeping plenty of nowadays key players of this Tottenham players. He was sacked as his transfer dealings were deemed. Poch did a great job coaching the team, yet the transfer since Baldini departures ain't all great.
Managing a group of players who obey you is different than winning a dressing room full of ego. You saw Kyle Walker and Danny Rose started it. In case Tottenham continues how they're doing without end result, in the end it's the same thing Arsenal did. The players who left actually won thing and getting paid better, there would be a point where players saw Tottenham just as stepping stone. If they're to avoid that, the question is whether they're investing and pushing enough for that next step.
Investing starts at s club level, believe me ENIC are.
You don't really know that especially seeing his big buys record. He is a very good young manager, no doubt about that, and what he has done at Spurs is actually brilliant but in the end it all boils down to trophies and he has zilch to show for it till today.
Does he have a squad that should be challenging for honours? Yes.
Has he won anything? No.
Why does the modern fan get wrapped up in finances? They've had a title winning squad for the past three years now. They've not challenged once.
Great goalkeeper.
Great fullbacks (last year admittedly)
Best centre backs in the league
Great midfielders
Great centre forward
I'd fully expect Jose to get fired if he didn't win things at United with the squad that Spurs have.
I really rate Poch. I really like watching Spurs. But anyone saying he shouldn't be expected to win things because their players were sourced cheaply, needs their head seeing to.
Has he won anything? No.
Why does the modern fan get wrapped up in finances? They've had a title winning squad for the past three years now. They've not challenged once.
Great goalkeeper.
Great fullbacks (last year admittedly)
Best centre backs in the league
Great midfielders
Great centre forward
I'd fully expect Jose to get fired if he didn't win things at United with the squad that Spurs have.
I really rate Poch. I really like watching Spurs. But anyone saying he shouldn't be expected to win things because their players were sourced cheaply, needs their head seeing to.
He is a great manager, what's the argument about?
To his credit he built that side. They should have won something though, yeah.
A big reason why the Spurs squad is seen to be as good as it is, is because of Pochettino. The same happened at Southampton.
Lallana
Schneiderlin
Shaw
Lovren
Clyne
Fonte
Chambers
All attracted attention from elsewhere whilst playing under him. He gets a team playing better than the sum of its parts.
Yeah, Poch is a top manager and a nice down to earth guy. The only issue is that at his age Jose won everything with much less.
Can see him as our future manager, if Levi unclenches his claws on the guy, cause aint going to be easy dealing with the devil.
Can see him as our future manager, if Levi unclenches his claws on the guy, cause aint going to be easy dealing with the devil.
Yes. So far he has demonstrated that he's good at building exciting sides that don't win anything.
He has had a squad for 2.5 seasons that is capable of winning the league. He has 5 players that would walk into every team in the league.
He's a very good manager. Unquestionably. But he's not really challenging for major honours with an exceptionally good team/squad. That's not good enough.