A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

I would love him at United. I think Poch has the potential to be very successful at a club with fewer financial limitations. I would also say he IS very successful at Spurs despite not winning any trophies. You can't have such a simplistic measure for a manager (Trophies? Good. No Trophies? Bad). It is a lot more nuanced than that. The league table is hugely correlated to wage bill and what he has been doing is overachieving by finishing above where the wage bill would have his team, all while barely bringing in any players, paying the players they have less than what they would earn elsewhere, integrating exciting young players into his squad and first eleven, AND playing exciting football.

I don't see him at Spurs next season mainly because the United job and probably the Madrid job will be his if he chooses to take one of them. He's done brilliantly for Spurs though and I would imagine Levy would fight to keep him.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
There is nothing magical about it. If you have a team capable of winning but repeatedly fall short then yes I would question your suitability for United or any club with title ambitions.

If he had delivered one or more silverware, then yes it would allay my concerns and be deemed suitable as he already checks all the other boxes.

It might not matter to you, but it matters to me
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Fair enough then, let's agree to disagree.
 
groovyalbert said:
So, in a hypothetical scenario where Jose leaves, would Poch be someone we simply shouldn't consider because of this record? There are plenty of managers worse than him who have won trophies who would be a way worse fit for us.
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For me, the first thing is a DoF to set some clear vision and then the choice of manager to deliver on it. Final choice would depend on how well Poch fits with that vision and who the alternatives are.
 
I think he'd see the United job as a poisoned chalice at the moment. The squad needs a huge overhaul and it doesn't take an idiot to see we've got bad mix of characters to go along with limited abilities.

Jose has loaded us up with huge monsters and we're a slow unattractive team to watch, I don't think any manager could actually implement a fast passing system with the current squad. It's all a slow mechanical style of play, very stereotypical Mourinho.

Basically well outdated.
 
AlecHDR said:
I would love him at United. I think Poch has the potential to be very successful at a club with fewer financial limitations. I would also say he IS very successful at Spurs despite not winning any trophies. You can't have such a simplistic measure for a manager (Trophies? Good. No Trophies? Bad). It is a lot more nuanced than that. The league table is hugely correlated to wage bill and what he has been doing is overachieving by finishing above where the wage bill would have his team, all while barely bringing in any players, paying the players they have less than what they would earn elsewhere, integrating exciting young players into his squad and first eleven, AND playing exciting football.

I don't see him at Spurs next season mainly because the United job and probably the Madrid job will be his if he chooses to take one of them. He's done brilliantly for Spurs though and I would imagine Levy would fight to keep him.
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From what I have seen, he would likely fail at Madrid, almost for the same reasons that Lopetuigi did
 
cheeky_backheel said:
For me, the first thing is a DoF to set some clear vision and then the choice of manager to deliver on it. Final choice would depend on how well Poch fits with that vision and who the alternatives are.
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This I agree with. I want our DOF to chart out our footballing vision and not Ed Woodward.
 
He's done well at Spurs with the resources available. They have had opportunities to win things though but so far always flopped under pressure, especially the league in 15/16, that is a big stain on his record. Needs to lose the bottler tag to be considered a great manager in my opinion. Just winning the 4th place / CL qualification "trophy" every year is fairly pointless if when you get in it you don't have any hope to win it.

If he's going to Utd or Real Madrid the pressure to win trophies will be much greater and given his record he will be under a lot pressure to win something early.
 
James Peril said:
… Spurs have probably hit their peak …
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There are reasons to think otherwise. With a new stadium soon in play - meaning increased income and a rip-roaring atmosphere generated by 62k fans - it's not hard to imagine that Spurs can push on further.
 
Think the fact we're keeping Mourinho in a job is an indication we're going to wait until the summer and make Potchettino our number one managerial target. He won't be open to moving mid season and I'd be very surprised if either us or Madrid don't come knocking in the summer.
 
crossy1686 said:
Think the fact we're keeping Mourinho in a job is an indication we're going to wait until the summer and make Potchettino our number one managerial target. He won't be open to moving mid season and I'd be very surprised if either us or Madrid don't come knocking in the summer.
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Knocking on the door is as far as you'll get.

Rather than wasting your time in fruitless pursuit and meanwhile letting other possibilities slip away, you'd be better off with more realistic targets.

Like one poster said earlier, rather than trying to get Pochettino, go out and find your own Pochettino.
 
Mb194dc said:
He's done well at Spurs with the resources available. They have had opportunities to win things though but so far always flopped under pressure, especially the league in 15/16, that is a big stain on his record. Needs to lose the bottler tag to be considered a great manager in my opinion. Just winning the 4th place / CL qualification "trophy" every year is fairly pointless if when you get in it you don't have any hope to win it.

If he's going to Utd or Real Madrid the pressure to win trophies will be much greater and given his record he will be under a lot pressure to win something early.
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One of the most repeated myths regarding Pochettino and Spurs... Leicester were at all points comfortably ahead and the title was theirs to lose. Just because Spurs kept being somewhat in touch longer than all other teams, it doesn't mean that a 2-2 draw at the bridge makes the team bottlers.
 
crossy1686 said:
Think the fact we're keeping Mourinho in a job is an indication we're going to wait until the summer and make Potchettino our number one managerial target. He won't be open to moving mid season and I'd be very surprised if either us or Madrid don't come knocking in the summer.
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I think we’d both be wasting our time. It seems clear that he’s already turned down Madrid, and I’d be amazed if we haven’t enquired already too. Unless Spurs continue to restrict him in the market and/or start selling their best players, I can’t see him leaving.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Like one poster said earlier, rather than trying to get Pochettino, go out and find your own Pochettino.
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Like Southampton did? Surely they deserve the credit for giving him his shot when Adkins was doing well and Poch was a managerial unknown. I remember everyone being baffled by the appointment. You lured him away just like United and Real will try to.
 
People will always have their own opinions on what a player or manager may or may not want. Personally from what I've seen of Pochettino I believe he will want to stay at Spurs until he believe he has finished his project. Could be soon, or could be a very long time. Right now I don't think he will consider another job, and would turn any club down. That's just my feeling.

2 man midfield said:
Like Southampton did? Surely they deserve that credit for giving him his shot when Adkins was doing well and Poch was a managerial unknown. I remember everyone being baffled by the appointment. You lured him away just like United and Real will try to.
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He also left due to his friend and the person who brought him Nicola Cortese leaving the club. He actually wanted to leave immediately, but decided to stay the season iirc.
 
2 man midfield said:
Like Southampton did? Surely they deserve the credit for giving him his shot when Adkins was doing well and Poch was a managerial unknown. I remember everyone being baffled by the appointment. You lured him away just like United and Real will try to.
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Find/lure away … it's the same thing since every manager is already at some club or other. Or it is unless you plan on giving a complete newbie the job, which I doubt.
 
hellohello said:
He also left due to his friend and the person who brought him Nicola Cortese leaving the club. He actually wanted to leave immediately, but decided to stay the season iirc.
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Ok, so we just need to employ Cortese as our DoF in a completely unrelated appointment :p
 
@GlastonSpur

Pochettino is earning his stripes at the lower tier clubs. Then the big boys come along and hire the best managers, it’s the circle of life, it’s just what happens.

Pochettino will be at a Real Madrid/Barca/Man Utd/PSG sooner or later. It will just happen.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Find/lure away … it's the same thing since every manager is already at some club or other. Or it is unless you plan on giving a complete newbie the job, which I doubt.
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Exactly, so saying “get your own” doesn’t really work.
 
hellohello said:
One of the most repeated myths regarding Pochettino and Spurs... Leicester were at all points comfortably ahead and the title was theirs to lose. Just because Spurs kept being somewhat in touch longer than all other teams, it doesn't mean that a 2-2 draw at the bridge makes the team bottlers.
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2 points out of 12 in the last 4 games of the season isn't bottling it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

If win those 4 games they would be champions on goal difference.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
For me, the first thing is a DoF to set some clear vision and then the choice of manager to deliver on it. Final choice would depend on how well Poch fits with that vision and who the alternatives are.
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Totally agree with you on this.

The miscommunication/different agendas that exist between our board and managerial staff is the route cause of a lot that's wrong with us right now.
 
2 man midfield said:
Ok, so we just need to employ Cortese as our DoF in a completely unrelated appointment :p
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Haha, please don't. :D

My point was only that he wanted to leave regardless as there was stuff going on behind the scenes. At southampton he also said that the vision (at Southampton) to challenge for champions league places with mainly a home grown squad was a vision he was attracted to. It seems to me that he enjoy the challenge at Spurs currently, and I'm not sure he would want to leave for PSG, Real Madrid, Manchester United etc., he constantly talk about the challenge of winning things with his project at Spurs.

Of course managers and players usually try to say the right things to the media (except Jose), but he might genuinely want to stay at Spurs and win something here, and he might find that sweeter than winning the French league with PSG.
 
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roonster09 said:
Had they won last 4 games they wouldn't have won the league title. They would have lost by single point.
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My mistake was thinking they were second that season :lol:. In fairness Leicester would actually have been under more pressure too, and that could have caused them to drop points.
 
Mb194dc said:
2 points out of 12 in the last 4 games of the season isn't bottling it?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_Tottenham_Hotspur_F.C._season

If win those 4 games they would be champions on goal difference.
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The league was out of reach and the team reacted badly to the disappointment, and allowing Arsenal to overtake us was very bad and disappointing. As a young squad we lost second place, but the title was never ours to lose, it was always Leicesters to lose, and they didn't.

I actually think the last 2 years FA cups are harder to swallow because I thought we were favourites going into the semifinals both times, but lost to you and United respectively. So there is some know-how missing in key moments, and I think it's a fair critique.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Knocking on the door is as far as you'll get.

Rather than wasting your time in fruitless pursuit and meanwhile letting other possibilities slip away, you'd be better off with more realistic targets.

Like one poster said earlier, rather than trying to get Pochettino, go out and find your own Pochettino.
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I think Poch has taken Spurs as far as he can with the somewhat limited resources at his disposal. He will be seeking a new challenge before long and the United job is a very attractive proposition for a manager looking to make a step up.

Honestly, I think he will jump at the chance to manage United.
 
hellohello said:
One of the most repeated myths regarding Pochettino and Spurs... Leicester were at all points comfortably ahead and the title was theirs to lose. Just because Spurs kept being somewhat in touch longer than all other teams, it doesn't mean that a 2-2 draw at the bridge makes the team bottlers.
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Kind of like our poor record vs the other top teams, it's another thing repeated so often that it's become an accepted reality.

Man City and Arsenal spent most of that season in 2nd place, I don't think we were consistently second until game week 26. So we spent about 10 games in second all season I think and were never closer than 4/5 points to Leicester at any point (other than once?).

Its like saying we lost the league with the draw at SB. Mathematically we did but realistically, we had already lost it by that point.
 
Vadim said:
@GlastonSpur

Pochettino is earning his stripes at the lower tier clubs. Then the big boys come along and hire the best managers, it’s the circle of life, it’s just what happens.

Pochettino will be at a Real Madrid/Barca/Man Utd/PSG sooner or later. It will just happen.
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Lol … putting United in the same tier as RM and Barca is no longer to be taken seriously: you're on course to finish outside the top 4 for the 4th time in the last 6 years.

As for PSG being more attractive than Spurs for Pochettino, more lols I'm afraid. They're a dominant club in a backwater league, have a sugar-daddy owner and that's about it.
 
Devil81 said:
I think he'd see the United job as a poisoned chalice at the moment. The squad needs a huge overhaul and it doesn't take an idiot to see we've got bad mix of characters to go along with limited abilities.

Jose has loaded us up with huge monsters and we're a slow unattractive team to watch, I don't think any manager could actually implement a fast passing system with the current squad. It's all a slow mechanical style of play, very stereotypical Mourinho.

Basically well outdated.
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Take away Matic and Fellaini and we have a squad with midfielders including Fred, Andreas, pogba, mata and Herrera. All players who are great passers. We have pace up top in Rashford and Martial and Sanchez. Our defence includes Luke Shaw whos showing his worth now, a future star in Dalot and Swedens player of the year, Victor Lindelof.

Saying our squad needs an overhaul and that they have limited abilities is harsh and gives to much credit to Jose who is failing our club not the squad failing him!

We are seeing a slow unattractive style because of Jose persisting with our out of form players and a spine of smalling, Matic and Lukaku.

A new manager with an attacking ethos could come in, and with a couple of additions, transform our style completely.
 
2 man midfield said:
Exactly, so saying “get your own” doesn’t really work.
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Yes it does, identify a young, up-and-coming manager whose style and ethos fits with playing the way that fans want, lure him away from his current club and give him the chance at United.

It won't be Pochettino. So you are left with only two choices: either do what I've said above or 'play safe' by appointing yet another manager with a proven track record of success.
 
KM said:
Pep certainly is but I don't think Klopp has been any better than Pochettino if we compare the spending and league positions. Felt that Conte is very underrated, that Chelsea win in first season was incredible avhievement.
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If you are only looking at Klopp in the PL then yes, over his career its quite easy. Its not like his Dortmund or Mainz teams spent a lot of money and he has been to 2 champions league finals.
 
cheeky_backheel said:
For me, the first thing is a DoF to set some clear vision and then the choice of manager to deliver on it. Final choice would depend on how well Poch fits with that vision and who the alternatives are.
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100% this, lets get some direction rather than a scattershot lets throw cash at the next supposed superstar because its a great investment.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Yes it does, identify a young, up-and-coming manager whose style and ethos fits with playing the way that fans want, lure him away from his current club and give him the chance at United.

It won't be Pochettino. So you are left with only two choices: either do what I've said above or 'play safe' by appointing yet another manager with a proven track record of success.
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I think your confidence is misplaced that he absolutely won't decide to go to a bigger club. There is a valid argument that he might have taken Tottenham as far as he can and for a manager with zero trophies on his CV he will no doubt hold some frustration at seeing his competition spending freely and not being able to do so himself.

Not saying he will or he wont, because I don't know the man, but neither do you. United being in the state that we currently are will only make us more attractive to a certain type of manager. It remains to be seen whether Pochettino is that type.
 
Anyone who doesn't rate him is trolling. You can question if he has what it takes to win the trophies (the same criticism of Klopp) but he has demonstrated repeatedly that he performs an above par job (with both Spurs and Soton).

We need someone to get the most out of the players we have (never mind whatever transfers happen) - and he's certainly one of the best candidates for that.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
100% this, lets get some direction rather than a scattershot lets throw cash at the next supposed superstar because its a great investment.
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People talk about a DoF as though the appointment is a guaranteed route to success. There is just as big a risk that we make a mistake in that appointment as there is with the next manager.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Lol … putting United in the same tier as RM and Barca is no longer to be taken seriously: you're on course to finish outside the top 4 for the 4th time in the last 6 years.

As for PSG being more attractive than Spurs for Pochettino, more lols I'm afraid. They're a dominant club in a backwater league, have a sugar-daddy owner and that's about it.
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You are deluded mate.

Liverpool hasn't won a league title in almost 30 years, yet they remain the second biggest club in the country by some distance. Do you really believe a club of United's size and stature have lost appeal due to an extended period of transition?
 
Even if he didn't win anything in the next few years and it was proven he is a complete bottler when it matters (which I absolutely do not believe is true), it would be a hell of a lot easier for the next manager to take us over the final hurdle than it would be taking over from Mourinho. You'd have a team that plays the right way and needs only minor tweaks instead of a team that needs a huge tactical and personnel overhaul.

I really can't see any reason not to make every effort to hire him.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Lol … putting United in the same tier as RM and Barca is no longer to be taken seriously: you're on course to finish outside the top 4 for the 4th time in the last 6 years.

As for PSG being more attractive than Spurs for Pochettino, more lols I'm afraid. They're a dominant club in a backwater league, have a sugar-daddy owner and that's about it.
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:lol:
And in another thread too.
Do you ever stop?
 
GlastonSpur said:
Lol … putting United in the same tier as RM and Barca is no longer to be taken seriously: you're on course to finish outside the top 4 for the 4th time in the last 6 years.

As for PSG being more attractive than Spurs for Pochettino, more lols I'm afraid. They're a dominant club in a backwater league, have a sugar-daddy owner and that's about it.
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This is exactly why he would want it. It's a sleeping giant. He would have time to put his stamp on it and not be expected to win the league in his first season like he would be at say Real Madrid. It's the absolute ideal scenario in which to join one of the worlds biggest clubs.
 
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