A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

ayushreddevil9 said:
So you cherry pick post Fergie years to emphasize Utd's slump but when someone picks a timeframe(the last decade, possibly should be considering more than that), you suggest them to consider silverware won by Spurs in prehistoric ages?

United is declining, true. But they also have achieved much more than Spurs during their worse years while Spurs are at their peak.
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The post I replied originally implied that Spurs have only ever won a tiny number of trophies, which is not the case and simply displays ignorance. The time-frame was not set by me, but implied by the post I replied to.

Now you and others - in your eternal quest for point scoring - want to move the goal-posts to cover the last 10 years.

Have I denied that Spurs last won a trophy nearly 10 years ago? No. So go figure.

Nor have I "cherry picked" from the post-Fergie years", I have included all of the post-Fergie years, up to and including this one so far.

Finally, to say that Spurs are "at their peak" is merely your conjecture, no doubt liberally laced with wishful thinking.
 
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ThierryHenry14 said:
If money is right, and a big budget will be available to improve the squad, any manager or player will come to join Man Utd. Man Utd is one of the biggest club in the world in terms of revenue, so your pulling power is huge.
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The same could be easily said of Real Madrid … and yet Pochettino turned them down.
 
charlenefan said:
Think he'll do it again this summer?
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Yes, if they try again for him.

But I hear that RM have some financial problems and may (?) baulk at the cost of prying Pochettino away, even if he was inclined to leave.
 
GlastonSpur said:
The post I replied originally implied that Spurs have only ever won a tiny number of trophies, which is not the case and simply displays ignorance. The time-frame was not set by me, but implied by the post I replied to.

Now you and others - in your eternal quest for point scoring - want to move the goal-posts to cover the last 10 years.

Have I denied that Spurs last won a trophy nearly 10 years ago? No. So go figure.

Nor have I "cherry picked" from the post-Fergie years", I have included all of the post-Fergie years, up to and including this one so far.

Finally, to say that Spurs are "at their peak" is merely your conjecture, no doubt liberally laced with wishful thinking.
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No, he asked how many times have you seen spurs lifting trophies, implying timeframe of around last 2-3 decades considering you ain't a 101 year old.

I have mentioned that you have cherry picked post fergie years which implies all of those years which you agree to.

Spurs are playing their best football during recent years. United are playing their worst football during recent years. Still, as both being football clubs, one has achieved more than the other. Go figure which one.

By peak, I am not saying that Spurs will fall off the cliff in the future. But considering the level of investment made in the squad, we all have seen how the team gets stale and needs serious refreshing/rebuilding after some time. Cue RM and Utd post fergie.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
No, he asked how many times have you seen spurs lifting trophies, implying timeframe of around last 2-3 decades considering you ain't a 101 year old.

I have mentioned that you have cherry picked post fergie years which implies all of those years which you agree to.

Spurs are playing their best football during recent years. United are playing their worst football during recent years. Still, as both being football clubs, one has achieved more than the other. Go figure which one.

By peak, I am not saying that Spurs will fall off the cliff in the future. But considering the level of investment made in the squad, we all have seen how the team gets stale and needs serious refreshing/rebuilding after some time. Cue RM and Utd post fergie.
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The 'recent years' have been going on for a while now, and it's not just a flash in the pan. This is not aimed at you specifically, but many people keep predicting spurs to go back to 'our level' and a post like this can sound like you are saying this is as good as it gets. It might be, but most spurs fans will probably be positive about our future and react badly to those kind of comments.

United will probably get better, you are too big of a club not to, however if I was a betting man I would bet on Spurs to finish above United this season as I predicted before the season started (had you at 4th and Spurs 3rd). And looking at how much work is needed I will probably predict on Spurs finishing above you next season as well unless something drastically changes. That in itself for me, mean that in this timeframe Spurs have accomplished more than United. You're free to disagree, but I don't think a EL win and League Cup makes up for the change in strength we've seen between the sides.

I also think there is some legitimacy to picking a time-frame post Fergie because he was the main reason for your fantastic success. I myself was cheering for his team in Europe and even in the PL against Arsenal and Chelsea when Spurs was a mid-table side with no title hopes. The challenge for United is to prove that you can get it right without him, and so far it hasn't happened.
 
hellohello said:
The 'recent years' have been going on for a while now, and it's not just a flash in the pan. This is not aimed at you specifically, but many people keep predicting spurs to go back to 'our level' and a post like this can sound like you are saying this is as good as it gets. It might be, but most spurs fans will probably be positive about our future and react badly to those kind of comments.

United will probably get better, you are too big of a club not to, however if I was a betting man I would bet on Spurs to finish above United this season as I predicted before the season started (had you at 4th and Spurs 3rd). And looking at how much work is needed I will probably predict on Spurs finishing above you next season as well unless something drastically changes. That in itself for me, mean that in this timeframe Spurs have accomplished more than United. You're free to disagree, but I don't think a EL win and League Cup makes up for the change in strength we've seen between the sides.

I also think there is some legitimacy to picking a time-frame post Fergie because he was the main reason for your fantastic success. I myself was cheering for his team in Europe and even in the PL against Arsenal and Chelsea when Spurs was a mid-table side with no title hopes. The challenge for United is to prove that you can get it right without him, and so far it hasn't happened.
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I have just followed up with the fact in the next paragraph that I am not saying Spurs will decline in the future.

Yes, post fergie years have legitimacy. Its taking longer for us to get used to the fact that we ain't managed by fergie. I only reiterate one plain simple point - united at their worst have achieved more than Spurs at their best. So its not all doom and gloom here because things can only improve if the right decisions are made. Maybe spurs raise a level or two and change that but currently the fact stays.
 
I personally think Mourinho will end up back at Real Madrid. Mourinho and Florentino are very close and the Madrid fans at the stadium have already started making noises regarding his return.

Matt Law reported yesterday that Poch is getting very frustrated with the lack of funds from Spurs and doesn't want the same mistakes repeated again.

At United he'd get a much bigger transfer kitty and a bigger pay packet so I think he would seriously be tempted.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I have just followed up with the fact in the next paragraph that I am not saying Spurs will decline in the future.

Yes, post fergie years have legitimacy. Its taking longer for us to get used to the fact that we ain't managed by fergie. I only reiterate one plain simple point - united at their worst have achieved more than Spurs at their best. So its not all doom and gloom here because things can only improve if the right decisions are made. Maybe spurs raise a level or two and change that but currently the fact stays.
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I agree that United will probably get better, but I don't agree that you have achieved more since Fergie retired than Spurs. But I guess that comes down to how much value you put on the league cup and the EL, and although the league cup is nice to win I personally don't put much value on the EL. I don't think we'll agree on this one. :)

Regarding Poch, I can see why United would be a tempting prospect for any manager, and right now I think it's the best place to go as a project manager; underachieving giant with lots of money and low expectations (in the first few seasons). I definitely think Pochettino would be interested in it as a project, but I don't think he'll leave his project before he feel it's finished, especially to a direct rival. I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised if Pochettino isn't Spurs manager next season.
 
hellohello said:
I agree that United will probably get better, but I don't agree that you have achieved more since Fergie retired than Spurs. But I guess that comes down to how much value you put on the league cup and the EL, and although the league cup is nice to win I personally don't put much value on the EL. I don't think we'll agree on this one. :)

Regarding Poch, I can see why United would be a tempting prospect for any manager, and right now I think it's the best place to go as a project manager; underachieving giant with lots of money and low expectations (in the first few seasons). I definitely think Pochettino would be interested in it as a project, but I don't think he'll leave his project before he feel it's finished, especially to a direct rival. I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised if Pochettino isn't Spurs manager next season.
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Yeah, I believe he would prolong his stay if Spurs win something. Otherwise I believe 2-3 seasons max.
 
soccerMad said:
It will be 2 to 3 seasons before he will leave for another club. After he feels that he can achieve no further with Spur. That will be the time to close a chapter and move on.
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Yeah I agree with this.

Poch is doing great for such a small spend, Spurs are definitely in the mix at the top of the table. Havnt they played a lot of away games as well? And have a run of home games after Christmas? Or maybe I just imagined they have played a lot of away games.

Having Alli and Eriksen back from injury is definitely a big boost. They were just grinding out results with both injured. Look on another level with them back in the team.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
Yeah, I believe he would prolong his stay if Spurs win something. Otherwise I believe 2-3 seasons max.
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See I feel the opposite, I think that without a good bit more of investment, he over a season isn’t going to be able to compete with the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea and ourselves, say this all the time but he has showed up to a gun fight with a knife and is holding his own. I think he knows that. If he was to win a cup like the FA or Carling then I would think he could step away.
 
It's hard not to admire GlastonSpur's optimism, but in all seriousness, if we made a serious play for Pochettino, he'd come to us. We're a far bigger club, with far greater resources. While we're in disarray at the minute, any manager would favour the United job over the Spurs one. That's not arrogant or trying to belittle Spurs, it's just the truth. 8th in the table or not, we're a huge club.

Luckily for Spurs, our board seem too inept to see that he's the obvious choice to rebuild our squad and our club, so we probably won't be one of the clubs coming knocking.
 
hellohello said:
I agree that United will probably get better, but I don't agree that you have achieved more since Fergie retired than Spurs. But I guess that comes down to how much value you put on the league cup and the EL, and although the league cup is nice to win I personally don't put much value on the EL. I don't think we'll agree on this one. :)
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We won the FA Cup as well in that time.

If Spurs go on to win a league or CL soon then it would be but if you don't win anything and even slip back. I'd rather have some trophies than a brief spell of top 4 placings.

Hey son, we used to be in the top 4 back in the 2010s.
 
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RexHamilton said:
It's hard not to admire GlastonSpur's optimism, but in all seriousness, if we made a serious play for Pochettino, he'd come to us. We're a far bigger club, with far greater resources. While we're in disarray at the minute, any manager would favour the United job over the Spurs one. That's not arrogant or trying to belittle Spurs, it's just the truth. 8th in the table or not, we're a huge club.

Luckily for Spurs, our board seem too inept to see that he's the obvious choice to rebuild our squad and our club, so we probably won't be one of the clubs coming knocking.
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I dont think it has anything to do with the size of the club. We all know Madrid are interested, arguably the biggest club. Its the level of control he has as a manager that is the main lure at Spurs I think. That squad is 100% his, no one leaves or enters without his say so. He is free to buy a player then sell him on later if Poch feels the player isnt good enough(Janssen). No questions asked. No investment players or reputations. If Pochettino wants a player gone he is gone.

Levy runs the business side of things but all footballing decisions fall to Pochettino. He certainly wouldnt get that freedom here with Woody.
 
hellohello said:
I agree that United will probably get better, but I don't agree that you have achieved more since Fergie retired than Spurs. But I guess that comes down to how much value you put on the league cup and the EL, and although the league cup is nice to win I personally don't put much value on the EL. I don't think we'll agree on this one. :)
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I mean, it doesn't really matter if you don't 'agree', we have achieved more than you. 10 years from now nobody will give a toss where we finished in the league, they'll look at trophies won. We won a few, you won none. We've achieved more, simple.
 
Champagne Football said:
You get that power here with Woody if your buys prove to be successful. With Jose his buys have been mostly unsuccessful.
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On the surface it looks that way, dig a little deeper and who are Jose's buys and who are Woody's?

Pogba deal was in the works apparently before Jose arrived, was Bailly his purchase? Martial? Or were these 'investment player' purchases from Woody?

Mou openly came out and said he is not a manager he is a 'head coach'. When frustrated with the clubs transfer policy. Which indicates to me he does not have final say on who is in and who is out.

This is precisely the difference. Pochettino has the final say on all ins and outs. No, on all footballing matters. I can see how that is attractive offer for a current top 4 side.

Could he walk in as our manager and go Pogba out, Bailly out, Martial out? Because he did exactly that at Spurs. Banished Adebayor to train with the reserves. Sold the club captain. I just dont see him being afforded the same kind of freedom with the squad he has at Spurs.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I mean, it doesn't really matter if you don't 'agree', we have achieved more than you. 10 years from now nobody will give a toss where we finished in the league, they'll look at trophies won. We won a few, you won none. We've achieved more, simple.
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"Remember the season we finished 4th in Van Gaal's first season and then was embarrassed in CL next season? " Those were the days finishing in top 4.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
Pogba deal was in the works apparently before Jose arrived,
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Not seen much about that being the case but Mourinho was most likely in constant consultation with united before his appointment and I highly doubt he complained about Pogba being brought in

Scroto Baggins said:
was Bailly his purchase? Martial? Or were these 'investment player' purchases from Woody?
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Martial was bought under LVG. Bailly was under Mou but I don't recall any complaints about him in the first season.

Scroto Baggins said:
Mou openly came out and said he is not a manager he is a 'head coach'. When frustrated with the clubs transfer policy. Which indicates to me he does not have final say on who is in and who is out.
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Mourinho openly speaks his mind and does not worry about offending the board yet the first time he has mentioned this is 3 seasons in when it is clear we didn't sign his preferred targets in Toby Alderweireld. Judging by Matic's regression and the fact that he seems to think a CB will solve all issues this might have been a good intervention. He has not complained about any of the deals made so far and says he has given a list of players to woodward suggesting he does have input. I am sure he has involvement in the decision though he might not have the power to overrule the board and scouts if they worry about his preferred choice.

Scroto Baggins said:
This is precisely the difference. Pochettino has the final say on all ins and outs. No, on all footballing matters. I can see how that is attractive offer for a current top 4 side.
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So it was his decision to sign no players this season? Or was that a board decision based on stadium funding.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
See I feel the opposite, I think that without a good bit more of investment, he over a season isn’t going to be able to compete with the likes of City, Liverpool, Chelsea and ourselves, say this all the time but he has showed up to a gun fight with a knife and is holding his own. I think he knows that. If he was to win a cup like the FA or Carling then I would think he could step away.
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We keep saying this every year. Poch knows why there is no investment because of the funds being reserved for the stadium. He will finish the next 2 seasons with Spurs because he knows that the new stadium was a part of the project and that's why he still penned the new deal offered to him.

However if they still manage to achieve a grand total of feck all in the next 2 years, he might have to re-evaluate his options.
 
RexHamilton said:
It's hard not to admire GlastonSpur's optimism, but in all seriousness, if we made a serious play for Pochettino, he'd come to us. We're a far bigger club, with far greater resources. While we're in disarray at the minute, any manager would favour the United job over the Spurs one. That's not arrogant or trying to belittle Spurs, it's just the truth. 8th in the table or not, we're a huge club.

Luckily for Spurs, our board seem too inept to see that he's the obvious choice to rebuild our squad and our club, so we probably won't be one of the clubs coming knocking.
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You're deluded. Poch turned down Madrid to stay at Spurs, so United have little chance. In fact, I would hazard a guess that United have already tried for Poch at some point in the recent couple of seasons. I am sure quite a few clubs have, like PSG for example. Poch is one of the most talented young coaches in world football and we are seeing worse managers than him being appointed at clubs like PSG and Madrid, so I'd hazard a guess he's been approached constantly. Yet, Poch is still at Spurs and signed a new contract just 6 months ago. So logic would dictate he is very happy where he is.

I'm sure it's never plan sailing and Poch does get frustrated with Levy's spending, but we do have a new billion pound stadium to pay for...so.

I admire your optimism, but I do think you are deluded if you think Poch would jump to United if you clicked your fingers. It isn't happening.
 
Hard to see how he would leave Spurs for us given our current state. Reckon he will leave for Real but don’t see him anywhere else in England. Considering they won’t be properly in the new ground until next season he will probably want to hang around for that.
 
That 5 year contract has basically committed Pochettino to Spurs for at least two years and probably more.

No top club will pay out the contract of such a level of manager. He's nothing special, when you can get guys like Conte and Zidane for no fee whatsoever.
 
Massive Spanner said:
I mean, it doesn't really matter if you don't 'agree', we have achieved more than you. 10 years from now nobody will give a toss where we finished in the league, they'll look at trophies won. We won a few, you won none. We've achieved more, simple.
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redshaw said:
We won the FA Cup as well in that time.

If Spurs go on to win a league or CL soon then it would be but if you don't win anything and even slip back. I'd rather have some trophies than a brief spell of top 4 placings.

Hey son, we used to be in the top 4 back in the 2010s.
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I forgot about the FA Cup, in which case I think it's close, but I don't think its just a matter of fact as @Massive Spanner makes it sound.
Some people may value good football and league positions more than the lesser cups. Van Gal and Conte got sacked after winning the FA Cup, fans also wanted Wenger out after 2 FA cups.

Anyway, this is the poch thread so I won't say anymore on the subject, and I understand where you're coming from.
 
hellohello said:
I forgot about the FA Cup, in which case I think it's close, but I don't think its just a matter of fact as @Massive Spanner makes it sound.
Some people may value good football and league positions more than the lesser cups. Van Gal and Conte got sacked after winning the FA Cup, fans also wanted Wenger out after 2 FA cups.

Anyway, this is the poch thread so I won't say anymore on the subject, and I understand where you're coming from.
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I get where you're coming from but they largely got sacked because they were faltering in the league and thus not showing any signs that they could win it in the future. An FA Cup obviously won't save you if you're not showing progress in the league. Ultimately in the league though all that actually matters is winning the trophy, where Poch himself differs from Wenger and LvG is that he constantly improves Spurs and looks like he could potentially win it.
 
GBBQ said:
So it was his decision to sign no players this season? Or was that a board decision based on stadium funding.
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Im sure he signed off on Grealish, and as stated had the final say on the player. Then Aston Villa were bought out and the new owners refused to sell.

Villa well within their rights to turn down Spurs. Player is under contract.
 
breakout67 said:
That 5 year contract has basically committed Pochettino to Spurs for at least two years and probably more.

No top club will pay out the contract of such a level of manager. He's nothing special, when you can get guys like Conte and Zidane for no fee whatsoever.
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If Zidane is actively looking? Could be happy biding his time like Ancelotti. Is Conte a good fit for us? Seems like that is a fight waiting to happen between him and well, anyone. Board, Woody, random staff member.
 
If they are serious about the DoF appointment, they should hire a proper DoF first and let him choose the manager instead of hiring a DoF, hiring a manager and telling them, well figure out your shit now.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
Im sure he signed off on Grealish, and as stated had the final say on the player. Then Aston Villa were bought out and the new owners refused to sell.

Villa well within their rights to turn down Spurs. Player is under contract.
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Seriously, a couple of articles below before and after the transfer window. One where Poch says he needs investment and one where he says he's disappointed investment did not happen. So to your point I really don't see that he has the final say on all footballing matters.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-spurs-future-daniel-levy-spending-transfers
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ottenham-cannot-repeat-painful-disappointing/
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
No, he asked how many times have you seen spurs lifting trophies, implying timeframe of around last 2-3 decades considering you ain't a 101 year old.

I have mentioned that you have cherry picked post fergie years which implies all of those years which you agree to.

Spurs are playing their best football during recent years. United are playing their worst football during recent years. Still, as both being football clubs, one has achieved more than the other. Go figure which one.

By peak, I am not saying that Spurs will fall off the cliff in the future. But considering the level of investment made in the squad, we all have seen how the team gets stale and needs serious refreshing/rebuilding after some time. Cue RM and Utd post fergie.
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No, as I've said, that wasn't the post I originally replied to before you jumped in half-cocked.

The post I replied to said: "there's more stuff in their [the dustbin] than your trophy cabinet", to which I responded by saying that this displays an ignorance about Spurs.

And only afterwards were the goal-posts then moved - in a desperation to point-score - to focus only on the last 10 years.

As for the rest, I simply said that United have declined post-Fergie, to which you have absurdly responded by saying I've "cherry picked" all of the post-Fergie years … as if there more than one post-Fergie period to pick from … lol.
 
Scroto Baggins said:
If Zidane is actively looking? Could be happy biding his time like Ancelotti. Is Conte a good fit for us? Seems like that is a fight waiting to happen between him and well, anyone. Board, Woody, random staff member.
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I think you're putting far too much emphasis on factors that are generally meaningless. Modern players and coaches don't last long, just hire someone that implements his system well let him win a few trophies and then move him on.

Of course this hinges on the board having some sense and getting a top football director in. If that doesnt happen then we will be mediocre forever. Only one man is able to run footballing operations by himself, those type of people don't exist anymore (managers). They are coaches now and are only good at a specific group of things related to match preparation and adjustment.
 
GlastonSpur said:
No, as I've said, that wasn't the post I originally replied to before you jumped in half-cocked.

The post I replied to said: "there's more stuff in their [the dustbin] than your trophy cabinet", to which I responded by saying that this displays an ignorance about Spurs.

And only afterwards were the goal-posts then moved - in a desperation to point-score - to focus only on the last 10 years.

As for the rest, I simply said that United have declined post-Fergie, to which you have absurdly responded by saying I've "cherry picked" all of the post-Fergie years … as if there more than one post-Fergie period to pick from … lol.
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Yeah and vice versa the poster focused on trophies won in last 10 years by Spurs. He was modest enough to consider 10, he should have taken more years into account ... lol.
 
breakout67 said:
I think you're putting far too much emphasis on factors that are generally meaningless. Modern players and coaches don't last long, just hire someone that implements his system well let him win a few trophies and then move him on.

Of course this hinges on the board having some sense and getting a top football director in. If that doesnt happen then we will be mediocre forever. Only one man is able to run footballing operations by himself, those type of people don't exist anymore (managers). They are coaches now and are only good at a specific group of things related to match preparation and adjustment.
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While I agree with most of what you say it’s never that simple. If you are going to get a director of football you need one that the coach can get on with, out of interest is there a list of club who have and don’t have a director of football?
 
I think we've reached the point where its now not a case of do we want Pochettino, but rather can we get him.
 
zizi said:
I think we've reached the point where its now not a case of do we want Pochettino, but rather can we get him.
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The answer to that would be not now or even in the summer. That’s means you either hold onto Jose for another season or look elsewhere.
 
It’s funny, during the last months of LVG it was obvious that Mourinho was going to be our next manager but the longer that season went on the more you wondered if we were making a mistake not moving for Pochettino.

We’ve not even had the short-term success that made Mourinho a favourable choice in a lot of people’s eyes
 
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