A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Smores said:
His job at Spurs is to win trophies and yes he's failed at that
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I think you aren't right. In the post match press conference, he specifically said they and City are at different levels. City are trying to win the titles, but Spurs targets are different than that.
 
He has done a great job at Spurs. He gets more than the sum of its parts from his team. Mourinho does the opposite much of the time.
 
Wibble said:
He has done a great job at Spurs. He gets more than the sum of its parts from his team. Mourinho does the opposite much of the time.
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Surely a staff member should know better than to make comments that are sure to derail a thread?
 
RedDevil@84 said:
I think you aren't right. In the post match press conference, he specifically said they and City are at different levels. City are trying to win the titles, but Spurs targets are different than that.
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And what are those other than winning things?
 
Wibble said:
He has done a great job at Spurs. He gets more than the sum of its parts from his team. Mourinho does the opposite much of the time.
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Is it true though? Spurs have better starting XI compared to ours.
 
Jojo <3 Mou said:
I don't think Mourinho would have been able to assemble this team as Pochettino has done through patience, coaching and incorporating youngsters etc. but I believe that if you give him this team then he would be challenging for the league etc. Spurs has a really good team. Of course they can be improved but they have a solid base.

Ultimately, it's not how much you spend but what you accomplish with that spending. Despite spending a lot less than most Spurs has assembled a great team and a good squad that is certainly better than United's.
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So you're saying that Mourinho has no excuses? If so, at least you are consistent. If not, you're a hypocrite.

Pochettino is, at the very least, a good Premier League manager. He sets his teams up to try to dominate matches, and from Southampton to Spurs it's evident that a number young players have grown under his tutelage. Anyone criticizing him and in the same breath defending Mourinho (I don't know your stance so I won't include you) cannot be taken seriously. It defies all common sense.
 
charlenefan said:
Surely a staff member should know better than to make comments that are sure to derail a thread?
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Lol a little wristslap there! True though - this is about Poch alone, no need for the M word here. There's about a million other threads slating him already.
 
MackRobinson said:
So you're saying that Mourinho has no excuses? If so, at least you are consistent. If not, you're a hypocrite.

Pochettino is, at the very least, a good Premier League manager. He sets his teams up to try to dominate matches, and from Southampton to Spurs it's evident that a number young players have grown under his tutelage. Anyone criticizing him and in the same breath defending Mourinho (I don't know your stance so I won't include you) cannot be taken seriously. It defies all common sense.
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I'm not sure that you read what I wrote so I'll summarize: the quality of a team is kinda independent of it's cost. Spurs is a better team that United despite costing a lot less. Pochettino has a good team that he should be winning things with and I feel that a better manager e.g Mourinho could accomplish things with Spurs squad.

The Pochettino/Mourinho situations are very different. I have advocated spending to build Manchester United squad because I believe that the squad is not good enough, we lack a RW, RB, CF etc. In which area is Tottenham lacking? Everyone seems to say that they need to spend. Where? On what? Who needs to be upgraded?
 
Decent manager when there's no imediate pressure to succeed. Doesn't seem tacticaly sound as some others.

With the team they have, they should have won a trophie or two, or at least got closer to it. Like Monaco's UCL semis.

People conveniently forget José got Leiria to their best position ever. Got the Europa league and the UCL with Porto and Inter, so he's galaxies ahead when it comes to overachive as underdogs.

Pretty sure José would be EPL champion with Spurs team and their (lack of) pressure.
 
charlenefan said:
Surely a staff member should know better than to make comments that are sure to derail a thread?
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Sorry? A thread titled "A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino" shouldn't contain discussion about the qualities of said manager in comparison to another manager? Especially not the current United manager on a United discussion forum? Why would we be looking "seriously" at said manager if not as a replacement for what we have? You have a very odd idea of what constitutes derailing a thread.
 
padr81 said:
The first time I've questioned him was his comments last night. yes, financially they are on a different planet to us at City but those comments after the game were strange, surely their priority has to be having a go at the title just like City?
They've been knocking on the door for awhile and for him to say they aren't competing for the title is really, really weird.
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Get fecking real! You are really something. How can you expect him to be in contention with City given the vast differences between not only their budgets, but the markets they shop in. Whilst you spent 65m on Mahrez to give competition to your other 50m winger. They failed to close a deal for a championship midfielder. These are the deals they are trying to pull off most of the time whilst each window your club buys at least one 50m+ player.

Get some perspective. You expect him to say he should be challenging! You'd think someone whose seen the vast difference money has made to their club would see this. I bet your tune would be different if it was City he had spent years and years building on a shoestring budget.
 
Wibble said:
I'm not sure that is true and even if it is he is responsible for them playing that well and as a team either way and on a budget.
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They aren't playing that well though, if they were they wouldn't sit dead last in the CL group stage, and they aren't even impressing in the league either, also entertainment wise they too rely on pace and individuals making things happen, hardly any teamwork magic like City produces, they play like United if anything.
 
Greek9 said:
They aren't playing that well though, if they were they wouldn't sit dead last in the CL group stage, and they aren't even impressing in the league either, also entertainment wise they too rely on pace and individuals making things happen, hardly any teamwork magic like City produces, they play like United if anything.
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You can't really compare City to Spurs though give the huge disparity in spending and City have a good manager as well.

I strongly suspect he would turn us into a team, rather than a bunch of individuals in the same colour shirt.
 
Bergman said:
Get fecking real! You are really something. How can you expect him to be in contention with City given the vast differences between not only their budgets, but the markets they shop in. Whilst you spent 65m on Mahrez to give competition to your other 50m winger. They failed to close a deal for a championship midfielder. These are the deals they are trying to pull off most of the time whilst each window your club buys at least one 50m+ player.

Get some perspective. You expect him to say he should be challenging! You'd think someone whose seen the vast difference money has made to their club would see this. I bet your tune would be different if it was City he had spent years and years building on a shoestring budget.
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Angry much? Every single Spurs fan in here would say they should have a go be competing for winning trophies with what they've built. Every single one at the start of the season.

While the league is a huge ask (which I said by the way) to simply dismiss it when your team have come 3rd, 2nd, 3rd is silly imho. The same Spurs finished above City, United and Chelsea twice in the last 3 season under Poch on said shoestring budget and above Liverpool for the last 3 seasons in a row.
The same Spurs had a huge chance to win in the Leicester season but let it slip away.

For him to come out and say "We're not competing for titles" is bullshit, really a Spurs team this good shouldn't be competing for trophies? Yes he is right to be mad at the board for not backing him. But to say the team he has built is not good enough to win after they were very unlucky against the defending champions is ridiculous.

Using your logic that spending equates to results, the table should finish.. City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea with West Ham above Spurs. Pochettino himself has proven this wrong finishing above all the big spending sides in 2 of the last 3 seasons and above one of them three times. City, United and PSG should be the 3 teams competing at the business end of the CL too? Lets see how that works out..

Hypothetical question but with two different bounces of a a ball, Lamela and Kane score, they are above City in the league, would he have said it then?
 
padr81 said:
Angry much? Every single Spurs fan in here would say they should have a go be competing for winning trophies with what they've built. Every single one at the start of the season.

While the league is a huge ask (which I said by the way) to simply dismiss it when your team have come 3rd, 2nd, 3rd is silly imho. The same Spurs finished above City, United and Chelsea twice in the last 3 season under Poch on said shoestring budget and above Liverpool for the last 3 seasons in a row.
The same Spurs had a huge chance to win in the Leicester season but let it slip away.

For him to come out and say "We're not competing for titles" is bullshit, really a Spurs team this good shouldn't be competing for trophies? Yes he is right to be mad at the board for not backing him. But to say the team he has built is not good enough to win after they were very unlucky against the defending champions is ridiculous.

Using your logic that spending equates to results, the table should finish.. City, United, Liverpool, Chelsea with West Ham above Spurs. Pochettino himself has proven this wrong finishing above all the big spending sides in 2 of the last 3 seasons and above one of them three times. City, United and PSG should be the 3 teams competing at the business end of the CL too? Lets see how that works out..

Hypothetical question but with two different bounces of a a ball, Lamela and Kane score, they are above City in the league, would he have said it then?
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Why is a City fan arguing so much that Spurs should contend for titles, when the manager and fans are happy playing for top 4 and finishing above Arsenal.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
Why is a City fan arguing so much that Spurs should contend for titles, when the manager and fans are happy playing for top 4 and finishing above Arsenal.
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Because imho, they've built a top team with a top manager and I'd like to see that rewarded. Do I want them finishing above city? Nope, but I wouldn't begrudge them if they did.

It's a testament to the running of their club they are pretty much taking on 5 clubs with vastly superior resources which is why I found pochs comments baffling.
 
padr81 said:
Because imho, they've built a top team with a top manager and I'd like to see that rewarded. Do I want them finishing above city? Nope, but I wouldn't begrudge them if they did.

It's a testament to the running of their club they are pretty much taking on 5 clubs with vastly superior resources which is why I found pochs comments baffling.
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Too early to say. If they finished 5th or 6th this season they finished right where they're supposed to finish.
 
Wibble said:
He has done a great job at Spurs. He gets more than the sum of its parts from his team. Mourinho does the opposite much of the time.
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They have a great team and much better than ours. Probably 7-8 of their players will walk straight into our starting 11.
 
Darlington Padgett said:
They have a great team and much better than ours. Probably 7-8 of their players will walk straight into our starting 11.
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7-8? That's a bit too much. Only Kane, Lucas, Toby and Vertonghen will walk into United's first team in 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with Eriksen.
 
Jojo <3 Mou said:
I'm not sure that you read what I wrote so I'll summarize: the quality of a team is kinda independent of it's cost. Spurs is a better team that United despite costing a lot less. Pochettino has a good team that he should be winning things with and I feel that a better manager e.g Mourinho could accomplish things with Spurs squad.

The Pochettino/Mourinho situations are very different. I have advocated spending to build Manchester United squad because I believe that the squad is not good enough, we lack a RW, RB, CF etc. In which area is Tottenham lacking? Everyone seems to say that they need to spend. Where? On what? Who needs to be upgraded?
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I read what you wrote and asked you a question. Let's try this again:

You said:
Ultimately, it's not how much you spend but what you accomplish with that spending
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So doesn't this mean that Mourinho deserves ridicule for spending so much more than a team like Spurs yet assembling a worse team? It's a simple question.

As to your claim that Spurs have a better side: Sanchez, Martial, Pogba, De Gea, Shaw, and Fred on form would all Spurs side. This doesn't even include squad depth which United have more of. I'm not buying they have a better side than United, and even if I was Mourinho should be ashamed that a manager that spent over £200m less than him (plus sold a terrific player in Kyle Walker) is clearly better than him.

The fact you think Mourinho can do better with Spurs side is frankly a bad joke. Mourinho has done less with more, yet you think in some alternate reality he would accomplish more. The intellectual dishonesty is truly astounding.
 
Poch excels in building teams on a shoestring budget, but he is not a title winning manager. In the last 4 seasons, he's had a squad which is as good as any in the league, yet failed to win the league.

People talk about spending, but that's just an excuse. The fact is, no manager will ever have a team that is far and away the best side in the league. No matter how much you spend, the most a manger can hope for is a side that is one of the strongest in the league. And that's what Poch has worked with and failed to deliver.

Basically, Poch has one of the strongest teams in the league. Give him another 300 million and guess what, he still only has one of the strongest teams in the league. He can build you a strong team, but he can't make them champions.
 
Wibble said:
You can't really compare City to Spurs though give the huge disparity in spending and City have a good manager as well.

I strongly suspect he would turn us into a team, rather than a bunch of individuals in the same colour shirt.
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This incessant defending of Poch due to their smaller budget would make sense if their squad was shit, but it isn't, so he needs to be judged by what he's acheiving with the players he has. They have the best group of defenders in the league, the best striker, and some of the best creative midfielders. Getting wrecked in the CL and competing for top 4 shouldn't be seen as some wonderful acheivement.
 
ivaldo said:
This incessant defending of Poch due to their smaller budget would make sense if their squad was shit, but it isn't, so he needs to be judged by what he's acheiving with the players he has. They have the best group of defenders in the league, the best striker, and some of the best creative midfielders. Getting wrecked in the CL and competing for top 4 shouldn't be seen as some wonderful acheivement.
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The players he has are playing above themselves largely due to him. And even if his squad is inherantly as good as you say how did that happen? Certainly not by buy buying expensive and often past their prime superstars and then getting the worst out of them.
 
Wibble said:
The players he has are playing above themselves largely due to him. And even if his squad is inherantly as good as you say how did that happen? Certainly not by buy buying expensive and often past their prime superstars and then getting the worst out of them.
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Exactly. They all look class players because of Poch. Just see how their performances changed after he took over. Maybe squad is playing at their best and their best is not enough to win the league.
 
roonster09 said:
Exactly. They all look class players because of Poch. Just see how their performances changed after he took over. Maybe squad is playing at their best and their best is not enough to win the league.
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So he has got the best out of the players he has. That is a great manager in my book.
 
deafepl said:
7-8? That's a bit too much. Only Kane, Lucas, Toby and Vertonghen will walk into United's first team in 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 with Eriksen.
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DDG
Trippier - Alderweireld - Vertonghen - Rose
Eriksen - Dier - Pogba
Moura - Kane - Martial​

Maybe Poch makes these players look better than they actually are, but that would be my combined eleven.
 
Wibble said:
So he has got the best out of the players he has. That is a great manager in my book.
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Yeah, I'm agreeing with you. He gets best out of his players and he even improved players who looked very average before he signed for Spurs.
 
Infordin said:
DDG
Trippier - Alderweireld - Vertonghen - Rose
Eriksen - Dier - Pogba
Moura - Kane - Martial​

Maybe Poch makes these players look better than they actually are, but that would be my combined eleven.
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Then Jose is a genius for finishing above them with shit team.
 
roonster09 said:
Then Jose is a genius for finishing above them with shit team.
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Mind you, last season I would have probably gone with Valencia, Young and Matic over Trippier, Rose and Dier. It's just that those three players (Valencia/Young/Matic) look so much worse this season, for whatever reason.
 
Infordin said:
Mind you, last season I would have probably gone with Valencia and Matic over Trippier/Dier. It's just that those two players (Valencia and Matic) look so much worse this season, for whatever reason.
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Then Shaw should be in the team. Also this is just start of the season and lot of things change. Season as a whole should be considered.
 
Imran Mamdani said:
one word - over-rated. win something, anything first then let's talk.
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Juande Ramos won a cup for Spurs - is he a better manager than Poch?

I would say no.

Alex Mcleigh/Laudrup have also won cups, winning a cup doesn't define a managers pedigree (it helps granted).

Poch is ambitious and heavily linked to big jobs (utd, R.Madrid), he can get teams playing an exciting brand of football while promoting youth. He improves players.

He's worked his way up from Espanyol, to Southampton, to spurs. He's idea for an elite level club.

He would transform us (utd). With a bigger budget and better players he'd do well
 
Wibble said:
The players he has are playing above themselves largely due to him. And even if his squad is inherantly as good as you say how did that happen? Certainly not by buy buying expensive and often past their prime superstars and then getting the worst out of them.
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That doesn't seem apparent when they go away for international duty. They're still top players. The players he's brought in have all played well or shown enormous potential prior to them signing.

He is a cog in the scouting and developmemt system at Spurs. The coaches develop, the scouts identify, Levy robs people blind etc. But as a manager, his primary job is to get his team playing and competing at the highest possible level. He is failing in that task as of right now. Ultimately, if you picked up this Spurs team and put them at any top club, that team would be expected to perform to a higher standard than Spurs currently are.
 
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