A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

haram said:
Why do you have to be the favourite to win a trophy? When they came up against Chelsea and United in the latter stages of the FA Cup they were knocked out. They have the quality to compete against these teams.
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Go through the match thread of the Chelsea game and they more than competed. Chelsea iirc had 5 shots on target and scored 4. Their performance last season was poor but that happens. They could have got through and lost the final as we did. Cup matches have a lot more luck riding on them than a 38 game season where he has significantly proven his worth.

Arsene Wenger became a meme despite winning 3 FA Cups in 5 years. Mostly down to the downtrodden league form but also neutrals look past a shiny pot as a be all and end all I am pretty sure one of those had a draw involving two non league clubs, another featured two championship teams in the semi final.
 
I'd be looking at a move if I was him. Feels like he's gone as far as he can with this Spurs side, and I don't think that they can expect substantial investment any time soon.
 
Boycott said:
Go through the match thread of the Chelsea game and they more than competed. Chelsea iirc had 5 shots on target and scored 4. Their performance last season was poor but that happens. They could have got through and lost the final as we did. Cup matches have a lot more luck riding on them than a 38 game season where he has significantly proven his worth.

Arsene Wenger became a meme despite winning 3 FA Cups in 5 years. Mostly down to the downtrodden league form but also neutrals look past a shiny pot as a be all and end all I am pretty sure one of those had a draw involving two non league clubs, another featured two championship teams in the semi final.
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The point is they lost. If he came here and kept losing in the crunch moments no one will settle for the excuse that we were supposedly the better team and were unlucky. It's nice that he can develop players but once they reach a level where they can be winning things he needs to coach them to actually win.

I am not saying he is not capable and wont prove he can coach a team to win trophies in the future, but he is not this magical manager some make him out to be.
 
el3mel said:
I don't understand the point of his defenders.

Everyone know he can make a team finish in top 4, play decent football, win the odd big matches or finish ahead of some big names. We're questioning his ability to guide a team to win a trophy, to that point his defenders replay by telling us again he's playing decent football and finish top 4..etc. We know that mate. We're asking if he's able to take the next step, something there's zero proof so far he can do.

Looks like his defenders want to dismiss the main point that we're talking about to see if he'll be a success at a big club or not to focus on the things we all know he can do. Thing is things he has done at Spurs are good and all but won't be enough at a big club.
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People rate him highly because of what he's built over the last few years to compete and overtake bigger/better resourced clubs. That's as simple as I can say it. He gets in top 4 which is a mighty challenge these days despite the lowest budget of the main six clubs. He has had his teams play good style in their play too.

If you think those people are treading over the same ground then the exact same can be applied to your bolded passage. How can we tell when the first trophy isn't handed out until February? He can guide his team to a League Cup Quater Final on Wednesday. He may not. Just wait and see.
 
el3mel said:
I don't understand the point of his defenders.

Everyone know he can make a team finish in top 4, play decent football, win the odd big matches or finish ahead of some big names. We're questioning his ability to guide a team to win a trophy, to that point his defenders replay by telling us again he's playing decent football and finish top 4..etc. We know that mate. We're asking if he's able to take the next step, something there's zero proof so far he can do.

Looks like his defenders want to dismiss the main point that we're talking about to see if he'll be a success at a big club or not to focus on the things we all know he can do. Thing is things he has done at Spurs are good and all but won't be enough at a big club.
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Actually thought you were talking about Toby, Sanchez and Vertonghen until about halfway through your post lol.
 
Boycott said:
People rate him highly because of what he's built over the last few years to compete and overtake bigger/better resourced clubs. That's as simple as I can say it. He gets in top 4 which is a mighty challenge these days despite the lowest budget of the main six clubs. He has had his teams play good style in their play too.

If you think those people are treading over the same ground then the exact same can be applied to your bolded passage. How can we tell when the first trophy isn't handed out until February? He can guide his team to a League Cup Quater Final on Wednesday. He may not. Just wait and see.
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We know all these good things. Repeating them several times while dismissing the main point that the people is questioning him for makes your point weaker not stronger. Ok, we know that he can play good football and finish high in the table while winning big matches. We don't need to hear this all the time.

We now talk about his ability to guide a team to win a trophy. He has had several chances to win something with this very good Spurs side and they bottled it several times.

When he moves to a big club they won't be fine with just good football and high table finish. They'll ask for trophies, and for not bottling important matches. Poch's ability to deliver is that is still questionable.

Doesn't matter how much his defenders talk about good football and high table finish, we all know that. We are doubting his ability to take the next step and actually start winning things. At which point will he move from "almost" winning something to actually winning it ? When will playing good football and finishing high in table stop being good enough ? He won't find all these excuses at a big club.
 
Huge mistake signing that contract. Has no leverage.
He simply has to move on.
 
el3mel said:
We know all these good things. Repeating them several times while dismissing the main point that the people is questioning him for makes your point weaker not stronger. Ok, we know that he can play good football and finish high in the table while winning big matches. We don't need to hear this all the time.

We now talk about his ability to guide a team to win a trophy. He has had several chances to win something with this very good Spurs side and they bottled it several times.

When he moves to a big club they won't be fine with just good football and high table finish. They'll ask for trophies, and for not bottling important matches. Poch's ability to deliver is that is still questionable.

Doesn't matter how much his defenders talk about good football and high table finish, we all know that. We are doubting his ability to take the next step and actually start winning things. At which point will he move from "almost" winning something to actually winning it ? When will playing good football and finishing high in table stop being good enough ? He won't find all these excuses at a big club.
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I just don't think a single trophy validates or changes opinion significantly, if at all.

People who say Pochettino has failed for not winning a trophy will go in the Klopp thread and say he has failed for not winning a trophy. They'll go in the Pep thread for not winning a trophy in his first season and not winning the UCL since 2011. Then they'll go in the Jose thread because he didn't win a trophy last season to justify x, y, z.

The point is they will all try to win but only one of them can win and the one who has the least resources is the one who has cultivated a more consistent long term build. His team in 2016/17 beat City 2-0 at WHL and drew 2-2 away. They finished 8 points above, significantly better GD. Then City spent 200 odd million. Most think Jose can't compete with that so how can Pochettino?
 
Boycott said:
I just don't think a single trophy validates or changes opinion significantly, if at all.

People who say Pochettino has failed for not winning a trophy will go in the Klopp thread and say he has failed for not winning a trophy. They'll go in the Pep thread for not winning a trophy in his first season and not winning the UCL since 2011. Then they'll go in the Jose thread because he didn't win a trophy last season to justify x, y, z.

The point is they will all try to win but only one of them can win and the one who has the least resources is the one who has cultivated a more consistent long term build. His team in 2016/17 beat City 2-0 at WHL and drew 2-2 away. They finished 8 points above, significantly better GD. Then City spent 200 odd million. Most think Jose can't compete with that so how can Pochettino?
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I didn't say he has failed.

However, it's fair to question his ability to manage important or vital games and his ability to guide his team to win silverware because guess what, these are the criteria he will be judged on when he gets a job at a big club.

We all know h can play decent football and finish higher than other big teams. These are good and all but they weren't be enough when he gets a bigger job. He will be judged more harshly then, and it's completely fair to ask if he will be able to deliver there more than what he did at Spurs or not.
 
Up until recent I was hoping he would be our next manager but now I am not so sure.
His record in cup competitions and against the top 6 is not good at all.
 
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Spurs can say goodbye to Kane and Eriksen with the manager coming out and talking like that. They're players you need to delude into thinking you're going to compete not confirm to them you're not really trying
 
breakout67 said:
You haven't gotten the logic because you don't even understand it from the looks of things.

Pochettino isn't going to Madrid to make a new Harry Kane or get a few young players to develop. He isn't their to pawn off players for big profits. He's their to spend money to build a top 5 team in the world and win the biggest trophies. There's a different skill set required to manage a club like Spurs and a club like Madrid.

I have wanted Pochettino to go to a bigger club for a while now, but he decided to sign a massive contract for Spurs. I thought it would be interesting to see what he can do with more money but it looks like he's not that bothered.
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But you mentioned what would he do with Lukaku, my point was he's been a key reason why Kane has become as good as he is so why couldn't he improve Lukaku? I agree with you that it's a difference skillet and it would be interesting to see how he would deal with Madrid's squad (I happen to think he's a better fit for us where there's quite a lot of building to do but the resources to do it and a lot of money rather than taking over an aging team full of ego's who have won everything already) but eventually he will move on.

I would suggest that any manager who has managed to get his side in the top 3 for three years in a row with young players on limited resources and seems to be a good man manager who improves players (and has played nice football at times, albeit they've been more lacklustre this year) should always be under serious consideration for any job.
 
Adisa said:
Huge mistake signing that contract. Has no leverage.
He simply has to move on.
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There is a surely a release clause in his new contract. Knowing Levy, no way Poch and his team were stupid enough to sign a 5 year extension with Spurs without some kind of get out. I think we'll find out about it as he decides to leave Spurs for a bigger club and his team releases the information.
 
The new contract just means Spurs will be paid handsomely when Poch departs.

Spurs should really of backed him, the best manager they have had in a long time.

But when ur broke because of a new stadium development not a lot can b done.

I still think he will stay at Spurs until the new stadium is complete. Which was sort of his project when he signed on initially.
 
He sounds really negative and it can’t be helpful for the team.

He is basically frustrated that the club he manages is not an elite club and does have financial constraints in comparison.

He’s done a great job and Spurs have a cracking team. Unfortunately, elite sports are mostly about the size of your budget and how well you spend it.

If this current Sours setup had a United/City budget, they would be well in the race. But they don’t. And he knows.
 
Jury is out has he peaked with this team and can he do better. Personally I think he's not all that. Got them high and stabilized them but he can't make that final step.
Him or few of the best players, one of them will leave soon. X
 
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The main reason I still rate him as highly as I do is because, unlike most, I don't really rate his squad. Honestly, the only player I'd take in a heartbeat is Kane, and maybe one of the CBs who, again, I don't rate as highly as most. I think he's done amazing to make this squad look as good as they do.

I used to think Dembele was great but he's obviously winding down now. I don't think Eriksen or Ali are that good. I like Son but he's not as good as he's made out to be either. I remember people used to rate him above Martial! I'd probably take Trippier, though, but he's not amazing or anything. Just a good RB which, to be honest, we could really do with right now.
 
el3mel said:
I don't understand the point of his defenders.

Everyone know he can make a team finish in top 4, play decent football, win the odd big matches or finish ahead of some big names. We're questioning his ability to guide a team to win a trophy, to that point his defenders replay by telling us again he's playing decent football and finish top 4..etc. We know that mate. We're asking if he's able to take the next step, something there's zero proof so far he can do.

Looks like his defenders want to dismiss the main point that we're talking about to see if he'll be a success at a big club or not to focus on the things we all know he can do. Thing is things he has done at Spurs are good and all but won't be enough at a big club.
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The problem is this need for him to win something to prove he’s good enough is stupid. So if he went and managed Celtic and won the league and the Scottish cup would that then all of a sudden give him that final bit of the puzzle that makes people like yourself think oh ok he has now won silverwear, he’s good enough for United.

It’s ridiculous this notion of needing to win, you have to look at his entire body of work and what he is competing against and done. Dimatteo, Javi Martinez have cups to their name but I’d much rather have Pochetinho.
 
I can't make my mind up on him in terms of if he's the right man for us. But ones thing for sure, he needs out of Spurs at this point. Depending on who they get to replace him, could see a bit of an exodus there, and they'll look back at this period with a weird sense of disappointment.
 
Hes good - i would have him here, what I like about him is that he's proven he can build a team and improve exsisting players. This is something we need, we don't need another cheque book manager that just wants to spend all the time.

Poch is still a young manager and could still win something. Every manager has their flaws i think his positives outweigh his negatives.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
The problem is this need for him to win something to prove he’s good enough is stupid. So if he went and managed Celtic and won the league and the Scottish cup would that then all of a sudden give him that final bit of the puzzle that makes people like yourself think oh ok he has now won silverwear, he’s good enough for United.

It’s ridiculous this notion of needing to win, you have to look at his entire body of work and what he is competing against and done. Dimatteo, Javi Martinez have cups to their name but I’d much rather have Pochetinho.
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What is he competing against. How long is that excuse is going to work? He has a good team and had it in the last few years. He's built that team, fair play, and had them doing good things but what now.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Hes good - i would have him here, what I like about him is that he's proven he can build a team and improve exsisting players. This is something we need, we don't need another cheque book manager that just wants to spend all the time.

Poch is still a young manager and could still win something. Every manager has their flaws i think his positives outweigh his negatives.
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How long would you give him to build a team? I mean football fans are well known for being patient, especially United ones.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
Hes good - i would have him here, what I like about him is that he's proven he can build a team and improve exsisting players. This is something we need, we don't need another cheque book manager that just wants to spend all the time.

Poch is still a young manager and could still win something. Every manager has their flaws i think his positives outweigh his negatives.
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The point is, does Manchester United fans have the adequate patience to watch him build a long-term project? Or you all will riot when we just got the "Top 4 trophy" each year while guessing whether City or the Pool would win the league? I doubt that.
 
Judas said:
I can't make my mind up on him in terms of if he's the right man for us. But ones thing for sure, he needs out of Spurs at this point. Depending on who they get to replace him, could see a bit of an exodus there, and they'll look back at this period with a weird sense of disappointment.
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In his four seasons he has established Spurs as a solid top 4 club. Spurs finishes under him are 5th, 3rd, 2nd, 3rd - that is the best set of finishes for them in decades. I am sure financially this period has helped them massively while they are building a new stadium. He has done a great job with the resources available to him. Their net spend during this four year period is a meager £30m (some managers won't stop bitching even after spending 10 times that). He has done a great job with them while establishing the club as a genuine top 4 team, who came closest to winning the title than any other Spurs team in eons. They'll look at this period very fondly even if it finishes without some mickey mouse cup.

I can see how it'll go. Poch will leave Spurs, after this season or after managing them for one season in the new stadium, for either Barca, Real or Bayern, and will win plenty with them. Spurs will appoint Eddie Howe who'll be as good if not better than Pochettino. While we will again appoint some past it relic or some "big name" who is too far up his ass and completely unsuited to us. He'll come in, constantly brag about his past achievements and downplay ours, while he wastes millions & fails with us.
 
Its a shame he signed a new contract because he sounds fed up there. From football weekly the comments are fairly rare for him.
 
We're always talking about what a big overhaul it would be to get a new manager in, but Poch seems the natural fit to the squad we already have.

He'd probably have to make 2-4 signings which is something different than Mourinho or Van Gaal changing the whole squad. He could work with what he has available.

I just think it's too easy to brush Poch off and question him because he hasn't won anything. We need to pick from the managers out there available, and who else out there is this magical manager who's won it all we're supposed to go after if not Poch who ALSO fits the direct attacking style of football we want to play? The debate surely must be about who's the best candidate out there available, and not necessarily about if the candidate has won a lot.
 
He’s done and still doing a brilliant job there. Funny seeing Mourinho’s biggest worshippers in here putting him down though. Very petty.
 
Mick321 said:
He’s done and still doing a brilliant job there. Funny seeing Mourinho’s biggest worshippers in here putting him down though. Very petty.
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All debate about him will end soon if he takes the RM job. He will have no excuses about players or spending. Or will he be happy remaining at Spurs living within his expectations.
 
Mick321 said:
He’s done and still doing a brilliant job there. Funny seeing Mourinho’s biggest worshippers in here putting him down though. Very petty.
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Not sure I’d quite go that far. His in-game management, particularly in crucial cup games, seems to let him and his side down on a regular basis.

Some of the criticism on here, and the refusal to acknowledge his obvious qualities, is weird though. It seems that some United fans take Spurs’s modest resurgence over the last few years as some sort of personal affront.
 
Revaulx said:
Not sure I’d quite go that far. His in-game management, particularly in crucial cup games, seems to let him and his side down on a regular basis.

Some of the criticism on here, and the refusal to acknowledge his obvious qualities, is weird though. It seems that some United fans take Spurs’s modest resurgence over the last few years as some sort of personal affront.
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Revaulx said:
Not sure I’d quite go that far. His in-game management, particularly in crucial cup games, seems to let him and his side down on a regular basis.

Some of the criticism on here, and the refusal to acknowledge his obvious qualities, is weird though. It seems that some United fans take Spurs’s modest resurgence over the last few years as some sort of personal affront.
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I as many other people have matched spurs play fantastic football over the seasons, but I can’t remember them ever winning anything, even more telling is that I cannot remember them winning any game of any significance.
 
It's not really fair to judge how good Poch really is, given the financial restrictions he's under at Spurs. Give him Pep or Jose kind of money to spend and then we'll see.
 
tieunhilang said:
The point is, does Manchester United fans have the adequate patience to watch him build a long-term project? Or you all will riot when we just got the "Top 4 trophy" each year while guessing whether City or the Pool would win the league? I doubt that.
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They've gotten closer to the title than we have in recent years
 
From our point of view, we need a someone to build a team, getting consistency of playing style and results while respecting our values as a football club.
Only then can we start worrying about big trophies. We've tried going the other ruoute with our last two managers and it's been an utter failure.
For me Pochettino ticks virtually all the boxes. The only box he doesn't tick is trophies. Although being a huge prerequisite, it's not something we can definitively say he cannot do.
He has built that team from scratch, it's not even debatable. He has consistently shown he can improve players playing a good brand of football.
The idea that he hasn't won anything with Spurs means he should be excluded seems foolish to be. He has consistently outperformed managers with far more resources.
Our biggest failing as a club in the last few years is something he excels at. For reasons that have been done to death, we sign players and they stagnate. Pochettino is very good at improving what he has. With the few talents we have and with our resources, for me, he's the best option by some distance.
 
If pep were to leave, I'd take him in an instant at City, excellent coach doing an outstanding job with his hands tied due to the new stadium, I'd be mightily pissed off if United got him
 
tieunhilang said:
The point is, does Manchester United fans have the adequate patience to watch him build a long-term project? Or you all will riot when we just got the "Top 4 trophy" each year while guessing whether City or the Pool would win the league? I doubt that.
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We have a supposed serial winner and we are in the same situation. We done even have the consolation of playing decent football or the idea that we are building towards something.
If he gets us playing well consistent and the players show consistent improvement, I think the fans will have a lot of patience with him. I know I would.
 
KingMinger22 said:
He sounds really negative and it can’t be helpful for the team.

He is basically frustrated that the club he manages is not an elite club and does have financial constraints in comparison.

He’s done a great job and Spurs have a cracking team. Unfortunately, elite sports are mostly about the size of your budget and how well you spend it.

If this current Sours setup had a United/City budget, they would be well in the race. But they don’t. And he knows.
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saivet said:
Its a shame he signed a new contract because he sounds fed up there. From football weekly the comments are fairly rare for him.
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He was very negative on Friday, which I thought was unlike him.
He has handled what was a disgrace of a summer really well imo.
He has tried to keep a united front but sometimes, the mask slips.
 
I would take him at United. Why? We are patient, we know everything he is about. We also knew everything about Mourinho, but he has failed with his signings. Some good players, but we aren’t picking from the top shelf. We need smart buys, technical players - if Pochettino can find those, we will do well.
 
He's taken Spurs as far as they're going to go. The last few seasons will be remembered as their zenith in the PL era.
 
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