I have serious reservations about him. Can he handle Man Utd? There is an inkling of doubt that we will hire him and then two years down the line we are looking for a new manager again.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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I agree with this, and on top I'd add his football I find quite boring. We're basically permanently establishing ourselves as a 2nd tier football club in terms of entertainment if we hire him. We'd have been playing boring football for the best part of a decade.
I'm Ole out, but someone else but Poch in.
Son Kane and Sissoko all players he integrated? And Trippier after losing Walker
Thats a fair statement and an open question.
Not sure about adapting to players because from what we saw, the time to integrate new players and push the team on was 2018 and he got no new players for 18 months.
Even then he integrated Winks into the midfield.
He didn't really have very long to work with the likes of NDombele and Los Celso (who was injured up until Poch was sacked)
Rinse and repeat...does anyone really expect it the turn out any different.
It’s amazing the Glazers still have faith in anything Woody recommends.
It’s amazing the Glazers still have faith in anything Woody recommends.
My biggest worry is we hire him and he basically just achieves the bare minimum for a decade. A bit too good to be as bad as Moyes, Ole and co but basically converts us into the Arsenal of 2005 - present.
A big part of our fanbase would happily settle for that, as they would've finally got their long term manager. This club just doesn't sack managers until they completely shit the bed.
Next monday is Poch day. #believe
My worry is can he command respect. The players are not disciplined in my view. They threw Mourinho under the bus and will more than likely throw ole as well. There is too much player power. They need a manager to come in and really just get into their heads like people in the army.
Agreed. Seems that we haven't got rid of the virus yet
This has more to do with the board not backing managers, rather than a manager not commanding respect.
Spurs brought a lot more than 3 players but Kane and the striking position illustrates my point, none of Soldado, Llorente or Janssen were remotely good for him or looked like they fit into the team's gameplan. Sissoko didn't fit and was a flop until 2018 when Pochettino was forced to do without Dembélé. And Son is arguably Tottenham's best signing in the last decade, he is the exception not the norm.
To me it's quite obvious, he is good tactically and a good coach but he also seems stubborn unless pushed into a corner.
I think the biggest issue is our fanbase in general is just massively out of touch with football. The players are far more valuable than the manager. Relative to the most expensive player on your team the manager is close to worthless - apart from maybe Klopp or Pep.
Madrid realise that and their motto is to do whatever it takes to keep their best players happy and performing. It's why they treat their managers like a condom, rather than a god/cult figurehead position he's given at our club.
I feel fairly safe in saying if Poch comes in, we'll be back looking for a new manager within two and half seasons.
Fair play to those who are happy to get excited by him, but as much as I long for a change and to see some proper tactical knowhow and style implemented on this team, its not Poch's style I crave.
Fair play to those who are happy to get excited by him, but as much as I long for a change and to see some proper tactical knowhow and style implemented on this team, its not Poch's style I crave.
The grass is always greener.
I'd expect to be reading the same complaints on here a few months into his reign. People will want the next flavour of the month in.
From what you read about him, training would be more intense and they'll get less days off. There's only one way that will go with our overpaid prima donnas at the first sign of a bad result.
I'd expect to be reading the same complaints on here a few months into his reign. People will want the next flavour of the month in.
From what you read about him, training would be more intense and they'll get less days off. There's only one way that will go with our overpaid prima donnas at the first sign of a bad result.
I think that is a good bet.
He has to get of some toxic players at the club straight away. Lingard and Pogba for starters.
As long as you have someone in Florida taking footballing decisions, it won't work. The only successes United had under the Glazer was when they didn't mess with footballing decisions, when Fergie was still around.
We blame Woodward and Judge, but in the end they re just the executors of decisions taken in Florida.
This thread reminds me a lot of Redcafe's love in with Jose before he was made our manager. He was seen as the worthy manager who will surely bring success here (including me).
Is there anything wrong with being in the market for another manager after 2 years?
I mean we're not looking for a foster father. We're looking for a bloke to do a job. If he's successful for 2 years and we think someone else might do a better job after, we should absolutely look to move on then.
I mean we're not looking for a foster father. We're looking for a bloke to do a job. If he's successful for 2 years and we think someone else might do a better job after, we should absolutely look to move on then.
I don't bother making a list, I'm a firm believer that none of the realistic options are actual managers, they are all head coaches and they will all bring the same issues regardless of their coaching abilities.Now I could answer the question differently and tell you who are my favorite head coaches at the moment, it would be Rose, Tuchel and Nagelsmann. None of them are attacking managers, they are all fairly pragmatic and their teams are well coached, in the case of Tuchel I have doubts about his ability to handle more scrutiny, he isn't diplomatic and I could see him lose it completely if he was questioned one too many time in clubs like Madrid, Barcelona, United or Juventus.
Mauricio Monday
If you really think POCH is the one (I don't) then now would be the time to get him. Like this week, not to take any chances with PSG. Tuchel and PSG will go separate ways shortly. Looking at Leonardo, Allegri would make sense imo for PSG. I am not sure someone like POCH with zero titles on his resume could get Neymar and Mbappe to press his way.
I was the same. I've long learnt the lesson that there isn't one man that will come in and solve everything, especially if it means just getting in the one guy that just happens to be available rather than any kind of long term plan.
Yeah good luck to any manager coming in trying to move our unwanted players on.
May be not an out and out winger,, but more like providing support via overlapping runs.
And how are Maguire and Lindelof not good at passing - Both Maguire and Lindelof were among top 10 CBs last season in terms of number of short passes (filtered for CBs who played atleast 20 games)! It seems you're letting the last 3 odd games influence that. And as for the direct style of play - we conceded 3 goals from counter attacks last season - only 5 clubs conceded less than us -and none of those 5 finished in top 4 last season.
I’ll bow out as I basically want to make the same point as @JPRouve it he’s more eloquent than me.
In five years You named five players and an etc. I don’t think that he done well buying players, if he had more money that doesn’t mean he all of a sudden would.
I’d end by agreeing that he’s a better coach than Ole, not enough to make a difference here so a pointless change and would prefer someone else.
Tuchel Tuesday
Wenger Wednesday
Tony Pulis Thursday
Flick s Friday
Simeone Saturday
Southgate Sunday
(Sorry about Thursday guys
I think the days of Ferguson doing 25 years are over. We will be doing well to even have a manager stay 5 years. A PL or CL in that time would nearly be a success, especially a CL.
Poch didn't sign Soldado did he and he was the main striker before Kane? May have that wrong, but I thought Soldado was there prior to Poch and bombed under the previous manager, Poch then integrated Kane as his replacement.
Llorente was a decent backup and came up with important goals, but it didn't seem like Poch wanted him.
Agree on Janssen
Yes I know they bought more than 3 players, but most of those were not starting 11 signings. There isn't a lot of starting 11 singings made to go off, and then when you add in the fact Poch has stated quite a few times that he is the head coach and doesn't have much say on transfers you see the issue.
Wanyama is another one which didn't work out but this seemed to be due to injury but not sure. I think there certainly is a question mark on signings, but I don't think we want a manager who makes signings, I would prefer a very good coach and a sporting director or system.
Integrating players into the side, plenty of players were integrated, they don't all need to be signings like Harry Winks.
However the main thing for me is that you would really get an idea of player integration after 2018 since thats when Spurs became really an established "top" side in the PL but there wasn't many signings posts that time to evaluate.
I think its fair as an open question rather than something to say he isn't good at. It took a while for him to establish a team at Spurs, and then he didn't really get the backing to evolve it from what I saw. I wouldn't begrudge him for not being able to integrate second rate singings like Clinton Nje whilst working with a tight budget
Davidson Sanchez is the one for me that showed some issue, but over the time I don't expect all signings to work out and I don't particularly see a poor ratio of starting 11 players brought in that he failed to get a tune out of
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That's a really good post. Poch would be an upgrade to Ole but really he would ideally be staging post on the way to attracting a real world class manager as dippers and noisy neighbours did. He's not the best - he's the best who would come right now.
But all this assumes that the club has ambition. Bottom line is that they don't, so that is the context in which they might bring in Poch. And that is the context within which he would only be able to do well for a short while before he runs into the same wall as the others - maybe a couple of seasons at best. Then he would be denied players same as the others.
Tuchel Tuesday
Wenger Wednesday
Tony Pulis Thursday
Flick s Friday
Simeone Saturday
Southgate Sunday
(Sorry about Thursday guys
Count me out of Thursday, Saturday and Sunday
You raised a valid point, so I checked it out for you, see below:
Club | Games* | W | D | L | CS | GF | GA | GD |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Arsenal | 32 | 3 | 12 | 17 | 3 | 40 | 69 | -29 |
Tottenham | 35 | 4 | 9 | 22 | 2 | 41 | 69 | -28 |
Chelsea | 34 | 5 | 13 | 16 | 4 | 29 | 57 | -28 |
Liverpool | 31 | 9 | 12 | 10 | 5 | 41 | 48 | -7 |
United | 31 | 10 | 6 | 15 | 8 | 26 | 41 | -15 |
City | 37 | 12 | 8 | 17 | 12 | 44 | 54 | -10 |
*Top 6 away games all comps during Pochettinos time at Tottenham
Club | Win % | Draw % | Loss % |
|---|---|---|---|
Arsenal | 9% | 38% | 53% |
Tottenham | 11% | 26% | 63% |
Chelsea | 15% | 38% | 47% |
Liverpool | 29% | 39% | 32% |
United | 32% | 19% | 48% |
City | 32% | 22% | 46% |
Now, you have to bare in mind that Tottenham at this point was fairly stable while others around them were in various states of rebuild. You would hope or assume that Pochettino would have been able to take advantage of that and be able to win more games. Alas, he can't. In the games that truly matter, he can't do it. It's why I think the top clubs are avoiding him in my opinion. Let's be fair, United have been largely abysmal during Pochettinos reign and we ended up with a far better record than he managed in the tough games. That should be a big red alarm right? Ultimately I guess it depends on what we want for our next United Manager, another man to come in and attempt a rebuild or a man to come in and take us back up to the top. If we want the later, Pochettino imo isn't that man.
Yeah on @JPRouve point I agree somewhat, have never really said we should hire Poch. Only questioned anyone stating he isn't a better coach than Ole.
However on signings, how many starting 11 signings were made in those 5 years that didn't work out? I think the main point being that what happened at Spurs was more down to lack of spending to match the ambition. Poch being judged on not winning major trophies but the club not making the types of signings to match that. Also its not really over 5 years since he didn't get to make any signings for 18 months in that period.
Exactly.. the point is not whether Ole is a better manager or Poch. It's how cleanly the narrative has again shifted to the manager, again woodword getting saved from fan outrage over his incompetence leading to loss of his job. If anything, following his summer of incompetence, his position at the club has only strengthened. Which is a pity!
My other Poch concern is that his success was based in being an early adopter of high press. It seems like that trend in football has now reached its peak and teams are working out how to counter it. So in some ways he has reached his sell by date in terms of replicating the success he has already had.
The really good question is what is the next big thing? And will Poch be the man to find it, as he did with Southampton. Maybe so.
The really good question is what is the next big thing? And will Poch be the man to find it, as he did with Southampton. Maybe so.
You got baited mate.
Posters who try to WUM like that aren't worth a serious reply, much less a meltdown.
Rinse and repeat or do what every football club in world football does unless you have he luck of a Wenger Fergie or Roux.
That looks like what I suspected. He basically took a bottom top 6 team and maintained them there, which is good but not great. And they should have had more draws and less losses while the amount of wins is acceptable. I don't know what you think but in the context of top 6 away games loss rates seem to give a better picture.
Yes true...got completely baited after a tough day at work. Generally can tell the WUM posters but failed utterly this time around.
It makes perfect sense and is a good synopsis. I'm not 100% sold on Poch, and to be honest, there are other managers I would appoint ahead of him, but I suppose he's free and attainable which will appeal to our Board.
I think some of the posts in here though completely downplay what be done at Spurs while banging Ole's drum for finishing 3rd.
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