A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Cassidy said:
Establishing Spurs as a top 4 team and UCL knockout regulars obviously, or do you forget what they were before he took over? Some of that 400m was also spent the summer before he left.
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They established that top four position while united arsenal and Chelsea were out of it and Leicester winning the league with ranieri. Something I’ve no doubt Redknapp would also have done.

You still havnt said what he spent the money on? What players he bought really kicked on and improved that team? £400 million!
 
Lyng said:
I don’t know where this only signing British players idea being Ole’s idea comes from. DvB and Bruno aren’t British.

The spirit is his way about the press, not throwing players under the bus in public, yet we have heard that he can be a downright devil behind closed doors. Last season we finished third. On top of that the times we have played well under Ole has been some of the most beautiful football since Fergie.

I agree the team, and Ole, look deflated right now but I don’t put that on Ole.
It’s clear the board made promises in regards to transfers to Ole and the team if they secured chl.
Those promises where never met.
I think the boards lack of ambition, incompetenc and lies have sucked all energy out of our players.

So why is he still here then? Why is he not moaning? Because he loves the club above all else. And that is the spirit we need right now.

Why should the players and Ole be any less deflated by the boards actions than us fans?
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How many top managers throw their players under the bus? Are they all following the United way? How do we know what Ole was promised for securing us CL football. There was a rumour that when we signed Bruno in January that money was to be taken from the summer transfer kitty so it should not of been a surprise to Ole when the rumour more or less came true.

Our supposed targets Sancho and Grealish (who just happen to be British) averaged out at 100m a player. Name one club in world football where they bought players for this price?Should they all give up just because they didn't get their shiny new toy?

As for Ole. Why is he still here and why is he not moaning? The answer is pretty simple. Because he is in his dream job, knows he will never find another job any where close to the same level and is paid over 7m a year. End of. Nothing to do with loving the club. If he did love the club as much as you say then what he should do is resign to show the world just how much the hierarchy is ruining the club. Do you think this is going to happen?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
They established that top four position while united arsenal and Chelsea were out of it and Leicester winning the league with ranieri. Something I’ve no doubt Redknapp would also have done.

You still havnt said what he spent the money on? What players he bought really kicked on and improved that team? £400 million!
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It wasn't a single season. They established themselves as a top 4 side and regulars in the UCL knockouts not just a single freak season. During that time, Liverpool and City were posting 95+ point seasons.

All whilst players were being nicked off them like Trippier, Walker, and top players were breaking down like Dembele

Seriously? What players?

Son? Arguably one of the best players in the league
Delli Alli?
Toby Aldervierald?
Kieron Tripper?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
They established that top four position while united arsenal and Chelsea were out of it and Leicester winning the league with ranieri. Something I’ve no doubt Redknapp would also have done.

You still havnt said what he spent the money on? What players he bought really kicked on and improved that team? £400 million!
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They mainly wasted money but to answer the second question it's essentially Son, Alli, Alderweireld, Trippier, Sissoko and Dier.
 
Cassidy said:
It wasn't a single season. They established themselves as a top 4 side and regulars in the UCL knockouts not just a single freak season. During that time, Liverpool and City were posting 95+ point seasons.

All whilst players were being nicked off them like Trippier, Walker, and top players were breaking down like Dembele

Seriously? What players?

Son? Arguably one of the best players in the league
Delli Alli?
Toby Aldervierald?
Kieron Tripper?
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Son I agree with, and alderwierald, Ali cost about 20pence. Where’s all that money gone if people expect Poch to work wonders here because he spent no money at spurs? That’s what I’m getting at.

also once Liverpool and Man City kicked in with their new managers, Chelsea arsenal and united were still floundering and they are who usually made up the top four. It made that avenue for Poch to get it a lot easier. That’s what I’m getting at.

we can deny it all we want
 
Mark Pawelek said:
I'm hoping we stop conceding goals like a team playing with a crippled goalie. It's not that I have a short-term outlook. I think you're in the wrong thread. Ole's been here for here for 18 months. He's has 4 transfer windows. You don't get to blame everything on the board. Buying Sancho does not improve the defense. Selling deadwood we want sold does not improve the defence. Everything isn't only about Glazers.
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Agree. Feck me you can give anyone the best tools, they still need to know how to use them? Based on what we have seen, Ole's bought the most expensive CB and then goes into the board to ask for more money for another one to cover that ones shortcomings. This against a graveyard of 5 other CB's at the club?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Son I agree with, and alderwierald, Ali cost about 20pence. Where’s all that money gone if people expect Poch to work wonders here because he spent no money at spurs? That’s what I’m getting at.

also once Liverpool and Man City kicked in with their new managers, Chelsea arsenal and united were still floundering and they are who usually made up the top four. It made that avenue for Poch to get it a lot easier. That’s what I’m getting at.

we can deny it all we want
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You are seriously having a laugh right. go and have a look at the Spurs squad in 2014 compared to now :lol:. It was a massively improved squad to the one which he inherited when he left, thats where the money went.

Not having to rely on the like of Benteleb, Chadli, Saldado, Kaboul.
Its some ridiculous point you are making here, the squad he left behind was massively improved from he one inherited. 400m over 5 seasons (a lot of that replacing players getting nicked off them and not operating at the top end of the market)

Squad value vs pre Poch to when he left also massively improved.

Between 2014-2017 - Nothing but improvement having spent moderate sums of money.
2018-2019 Spent nothing massive improvement again culminating in a UCL final (Having warned the club the squad needed an evolution to continue to compete)
2019 - Spent around 100m and was sacked after a poor start to the season (Again clouds around squad evolution)

Think one thing is clear, use of funds and the tangible improvements to the team is not a stick to beat Poch with.
 
Ultimately Ole will be judged on results. If we carry on in the same vain as we have started the campaign he will be gone sooner rather than later, and that is not a slight on the Ole versus Poch debate. That's business
 
Cassidy said:
It wasn't a single season. They established themselves as a top 4 side and regulars in the UCL knockouts not just a single freak season. During that time, Liverpool and City were posting 95+ point seasons.

All whilst players were being nicked off them like Trippier, Walker, and top players were breaking down like Dembele

Seriously? What players?

Son? Arguably one of the best players in the league
Delli Alli?
Toby Aldervierald?
Kieron Tripper?
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Agree. When you reflect on it, Spurs have signed and developed some top players for no money. Maybe only Klopp could rival that stat. Poch must be an owners dream in that regard.
 
SeaCarrot said:
Surprised anyone could make an argument that Ole is a better on the field manager than Poch. He clearly isn’t.

Poch is a much better tactician and plays better football. That doesn’t however mean he’d do any better at United than Ole as there are intangibles involved.

A squad full of prima-Donna’s who think they are gods gift and being massively overpaid. Ole at least has club clout and an innate respect which you’d think would translate into forward progress off the field or on. End of last season was an example, while so far this season is a counter.

Put them both in charge of an identical 11 and play each other I’m certain poch would win 8 times out of 10.

But rebuilding the culture of the club and restructuring the wage budget are massive things for United at the moment and I think that should take precedence.

Personally I wouldn’t mind finishing 7th the next two years if it meant we changed how we operated, getting rid of massive wages and deadwood and stopped paying shite mid table tier players 100+k a week so we can never sell them for a decent fee.
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He’s rebuilt the culture so far by bringing in the softest captain we’ve had in years. Dan (deep deep)James and AWB who in the words of Jigga man probably wouldn’t burst a grape in a fruit fight.

It’s all marketing BS designed to get the fans on side. What was their slogan. Humble, hard work but arrogance to be a United footballer. So your looking for conventionally traits with one massive eccentric trait. In general does anyone know these people in life?
 
Cassidy said:
You are seriously having a laugh right. go and have a look at the Spurs squad in 2014 compared to now :lol:. It was a massively improved squad to the one which he inherited when he left, thats where the money went.

Not having to rely on the like of Benteleb, Chadli, Saldado, Kaboul.
Its some ridiculous point you are making here, the squad he left behind was massively improved from he one inherited. 400m over 5 seasons (a lot of that replacing players getting nicked off them and not operating at the top end of the market)

Squad value vs pre Poch to when he left also massively improved.
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.....those players value too when he left based on what they paid for them. Son and Harry were worth well over 200m if they were sold pre COVID. Deli lost his was a little but was spoken about as a 60m player. Walker went for 50m to city. Not many teams could say the had 4 player worth over 300m that cost them collectively less than 50m.....
 
Cassidy said:
You are seriously having a laugh right. go and have a look at the Spurs squad in 2014 compared to now :lol:. It was a massively improved squad to the one which he inherited when he left, thats where the money went.

Not having to rely on the like of Benteleb, Chadli, Saldado, Kaboul.
Its some ridiculous point you are making here, the squad he left behind was massively improved from he one inherited. 400m over 5 seasons (a lot of that replacing players getting nicked off them and not operating at the top end of the market)

Squad value vs pre Poch to when he left also massively improved.

Between 2014-2017 - Nothing but improvement having spent moderate sums of money.
2018-2019 Spent nothing massive improvement again culminating in a UCL final (Having warned the club the squad needed an evolution to continue to compete)
2019 - Spent around 100m and was sacked after a poor start to the season (Again clouds around squad evolution)

Think one thing is clear, use of funds and the tangible improvements to the team is not a stick to beat Poch with.
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Ok mate fair enough, I just think those things you’re praising him for there could also be used to praise Ole so far, cleared out shit, bought better, raised players values.

I’m not saying Poch is a bad manager, I’m saying he’s not the be all and end all and he’s in no way garunteed to succeed here as some people are so adamant he will because he has spent no money in the past and got consistent top four. Those things are never looked at in context.
 
Not in anyway against Poch coming in but only if it's viable that Solskjaer ends up depleting. Not a situation similar to how we got Mourinho under the table to when LVG was in charge.

Yes we didn't have the best summer but we still have a squad of players perfectly capable of reaching top four and that's simply Ole's assessment this season. If he fails this objective he's got to be shown the door, I don't see any alternatives to that scenario.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
They established that top four position while united arsenal and Chelsea were out of it and Leicester winning the league with ranieri. Something I’ve no doubt Redknapp would also have done.

You still havnt said what he spent the money on? What players he bought really kicked on and improved that team? £400 million!
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When you manage a team like Spurs under Levy you have to shop in the bargain basement. Out of all the players he bought only 4 have cost more than €30m (euros not pounds) Ndombele, Sanchez, Sissoko and Son. Lucas Moura was bought for €28m so it's probably fair to say his most expensive transfers haven't all been compete duds.

At Southampton he spent about €40m on transfers and got them to their highest ever PL finish.

Then we look at Ole who so far bar James has spent more (a lot more) than 30m on all his players. Isn't it conceivable that If Poch was given the same freedom in the transfer market as Ole he could do a considerably better job?
 
starman said:
You may love Poch, but dont let that delude yourself and turn him into a myth, he had one season where did not spend anything. Poch also came into a team was on the way up and where Kane was emerging as a top striker. Remove Kane from the equation and Poch does the same thing through his work in the market and then you will be onto something
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Dont really
passing-wind said:
Not in anyway against Poch coming in but only if it's viable that Solskjaer ends up depleting. Not a situation similar to how we got Mourinho under the table to when LVG was in charge.

Yes we didn't have the best summer but we still have a squad of players perfectly capable of reaching top four and that's simply Ole's assessment this season. If he fails this objective he's got to be shown the door, I don't see any alternatives to that scenario.
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Its hard to know how the season to go - we have a tough run of games over the next few months and its easy to see us losing a lot of thel on current form. However we have put together some good runs under ole so he could turn it around

I do however think there are significsnt flaws in his coaching that mean we would be better served by another manager in the long term and i am a fan of poch. At southampton and spurs he was able to quickly get their squads playing his style of football
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
When you manage a team like Spurs under Levy you have to shop in the bargain basement. Out of all the players he bought only 4 have cost more than €30m (euros not pounds) Ndombele, Sanchez, Sissoko and Son. Lucas Moura was bought for €28m so it's probably fair to say his most expensive transfers haven't all been compete duds.

At Southampton he spent about €40m on transfers and got them to their highest ever PL finish.

Then we look at Ole who so far bar James has spent more (a lot more) than 30m on all his players. Isn't it conceivable that If Poch was given the same freedom in the transfer market as Ole he could do a considerably better job?
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Its not just transfer fees, i am guessing their wage bill was pretty tiny too
 
Mark Pawelek said:
I admit I made negative comments about Pouch when the hysteria in favouring him was strong. I said Pouch never won anything with Spurs. I never said Ole was a better coach; I hoped Ole could delegate the coaching to good coaches and would be able to implement his vision. But, maybe not. If there are more goals shipped like this I'll be time to move Ole on. It's not just one game we let too many in. Even when we won it was at the death. If Pouch is the best available, I guess we'll get him.

It's not about exposing, these posters. This forum isn't about the posters.
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Again, I'm specifically speaking about a few that have slated him for years now. I also have no intention of 'exposing' anyone.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
How many top managers throw their players under the bus? Are they all following the United way? How do we know what Ole was promised for securing us CL football. There was a rumour that when we signed Bruno in January that money was to be taken from the summer transfer kitty so it should not of been a surprise to Ole when the rumour more or less came true.

Our supposed targets Sancho and Grealish (who just happen to be British) averaged out at 100m a player. Name one club in world football where they bought players for this price?Should they all give up just because they didn't get their shiny new toy?

As for Ole. Why is he still here and why is he not moaning? The answer is pretty simple. Because he is in his dream job, knows he will never find another job any where close to the same level and is paid over 7m a year. End of. Nothing to do with loving the club. If he did love the club as much as you say then what he should do is resign to show the world just how much the hierarchy is ruining the club. Do you think this is going to happen?
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Mourinho threw the players under the bus...

I am talking about what was promised by the board to Ole, I hope Ole isnt silly enough to base his decisions and thoughts on random rumours in the media.

Again our supposed targets? Do we know Ole wanted both Graelish and Sancho? Also how much did United net spent compared to Spurs? Chelsea? City?
Of course Pep, Klopp and Mourinho are not going to down tools when they all where handed their targets. Mourinho wanted Bale, he got him. Klopp wanted Thiago and Jota, he got them, and I dont think I have to mention Pep at all...

Why is United his dream job? Because he loves the club. But given you even question the love for his club its clear you are beyond reasoning with....
 
Matriac said:
Probably has a lot to do with the fact that Ole's oldest kid is the same age as Poch's youngest.

Ole's youngest is 10-11 now, and it makes sense to me that he wanted his kids to have a foundational upbringing in the same area as he and his wife did. Growing up close to their family etc.

Especially because he could also combine it with a job in the area that was interesting enough (Molde) and he could develop his managerial talents/experience, while having the option to go abroad again later if he wanted to when the kids got older.


I'm not saying that Ole is necessarily better than Poch, but I'm not convinced that he is worse either. If Ole got fired tomorrow I wouldn't feel real excited about the prospect of hiring Poch, but I would of course support him to do well if we did.

My opinion is that I think Ole has taken the club in a positive direction since joining, and I've felt proper excited about watching our games again.
The performance in the new season now has been troubling, but I don't think it's time to fire Ole just yet. I think he deserves more time with the results so far. Time will tell if he is up for the task or not.

I just take offense to those using his extended stay in Norway as proof that he couldn't work elsewhere. His family made sacrifices for him his entire career, it was only fair that he returned the favor while his kids were young after his time at United had run its course.
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Well this is a stretch.
 
Poch would grind this team into a husk for a few years and get the boot when we inevitably capitulate. And we would have won nothing in the process.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Good post, I disagree about Everton not playing good football. They were a very decent team and good to watch. If Moyes didn’t come here he wouldn’t be the laughing stock he now is.

fair enough re Poch getting more points than Redknapp, still doesn’t mean all that much and will all be relative to where other teams were that season.
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Poch over Redknapp please, but not necessarily either. It depends who's available.
Zlatan 7 said:
Poch is the Foreign more exotic David Moyes.

Moyes had Everton playing really good football, I used to enjoy watching them, they were fierce and attacking. He also almost got them to the champions league, and if he was there while the other Bigger clubs (us, Arsenal, Chelsea) were all having a mare rebuilding I’m sure he would have got top four more often too.

Poch carried on from what Redknapp did, maybe better, maybe not. Top four and not winning anything else. Yet again Poch is more exotic though.

I’d like to be proven wrong without smilies
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Please include a link to the thread you opened on Redknapp - explaining why you think we should appoint him as manager - next time you bring him up.:nono: This is the Pouch thread.
 
I like Poch, but it's quite obvious what the issue is at the club - the lack of a sporting director. The next manager, if we are to sack Ole, needs to be the one whose playing style actually is similar to that of Ole, and who can actually utilize what Ole has built here and take it further.

I'm still Ole in, because it makes zero sense to sack a manager, who has exceeded expectations in his first season, on the basis of three games especially when every other top team has struggled.

And the thing is half of the forum and fans in general will lose patience against Poch the second he falters. It'll the be - "his record vs big teams has always been shit (even when his sides were stronger)," "He couldn't win the league when the top teams were struggling", "his transfer record has been atrocious", "which youngsters apart from Kane and Alli developed under him?" and so on. So, it's better to just let Ole complete his project before reaching conclusions.
 
anant said:
I like Poch, but it's quite obvious what the issue is at the club - the lack of a sporting director. The next manager, if we are to sack Ole, needs to be the one whose playing style actually is similar to that of Ole, and who can actually utilize what Ole has built here and take it further.

I'm still Ole in, because it makes zero sense to sack a manager, who has exceeded expectations in his first season, on the basis of three games especially when every other top team has struggled.

And the thing is half of the forum and fans in general will lose patience against Poch the second he falters. It'll the be - "his record vs big teams has always been shit (even when his sides were stronger)," "He couldn't win the league when the top teams were struggling", "his transfer record has been atrocious", "which youngsters apart from Kane and Alli developed under him?" and so on. So, it's better to just let Ole complete his project before reaching conclusions.
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Our current squad isn't specialized though and what is Ole's style?
 
Zlatan 7 said:
How is he in his prime when he just got sacked for bombing down the league with his club? Just because of his age?
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Yes because of his age and his current understanding of the game. He is the manager of this era for this era. Something you couldnt necessarily say about Mourinho and Van Gaal when we hired them.
And heck Klopp bombed down the league with Dortmund too towards the end. I just think coaches like them gotta take that step to the big club once they hit the ceiling with the clubs like Dortmund or Tottenham at the time.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
Ok mate fair enough, I just think those things you’re praising him for there could also be used to praise Ole so far, cleared out shit, bought better, raised players values.

I’m not saying Poch is a bad manager, I’m saying he’s not the be all and end all and he’s in no way garunteed to succeed here as some people are so adamant he will because he has spent no money in the past and got consistent top four. Those things are never looked at in context.
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Didnt praise him answered your question on 400m spent. And no our squad value isnt higher than when Ole started.

Again I didnt call Poch the be all and end all. Simply pointed out that your comment about 400m spent is ridiculous
 
JPRouve said:
Our current squad isn't specialized though and what is Ole's style?
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We like to play short passing football rather than relying on crosses or long balls. We rely on pace on the wings, and expect our wingers to cut back. Ole likes our FBs to occupy the positions a typical out and out winger would when we're attacking. We like to keep our defenders high on the pitch so that they can we can quickly get back on the ball and maintain the pressure after the opposition just tries to clear the ball (admittedly, this has risks, but it's clear as to what he's trying here)
 
oh dear! - some United fans are NOT happy at hearing that Pochettino will NOT be managing them this season. They WANT WANT WANT, and stamp their feet and get all huffy because DADDY is not giving them what they WANT WANT WANT.

But DADDY can't give them what they WANT WANT WANT because - and contrary to what they've led to believe - DADDY has to deal with other daddies, some of whom couldn't give a stuffed parrot for what DADDY'S little children WANT WANT WANT.

So DADDY'S little children will have to wait until Xmas for their next batch of shiny new toys, even tho' they got tired of the last lot before the end of January had arrived and soon WANTED WANTED WANTED more.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
I’d like to see why you think he’d do so well with us instead of blindly using others posts?
What about Poch do you like and why is he our saviour?
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I never claimed that Poch is our saviour. Can I then say that you’re claiming Ole to be our saviour? Quit putting words in my mouth.

If you need me to lay out the obvious for you; Poch got his Spurs side to an incredible 2nd place and to the CL final with a tight budget. Can you tell me Ole is capable of doing the same on a similar budget?

There were rumours of top clubs sniffing around Poch when he was out of a job. Tell me which other top club would even consider Ole for the job? Which PL club even?

And to top it off, you even claim Poch to be an exotic Moyes. Moyes’s football was never exciting to me even during his Everton era, I have absolutely no idea how you even came up with that.
 
anant said:
We like to play short passing football rather than relying on crosses or long balls. We rely on pace on the wings, and expect our wingers to cut back. Ole likes our FBs to occupy the positions a typical out and out winger would when we're attacking. We like to keep our defenders high on the pitch so that they can we can quickly get back on the ball and maintain the pressure after the opposition just tries to clear the ball (admittedly, this has risks, but it's clear as to what he's trying here)
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So our squad isnt tailored to Ole “style” then

Fullbacks like Wingers (Shaw and AWB)
High defensive line (Maguire and Lindelof)
Ha

I dont think what you describing is Oles style to be honest
 
I can’t believe it’s just 2 months ago that we were heading into a European Semi, many bragging about having the best midfield and attack around after getting third, being unbeaten and top of the form charts since January playing our best stuff since SAF. Now after failing to get any of our transfer targets in the summer and having had no pre-season there are leaks everywhere about how Ole has fallen out with Bruno, the players don’t feel he’s good enough and that the club are poised to bring in Pochetino. All because we’ve lost two matches. There’s definitely an issue at the club but I’m not convinced that issue is Ole. How have we managed to get to this point with so much negativity around the club? Who is leaking this shite? Ole made it clear after last season we needed to spend big to improve. The club failed to do that. Does Ed feel Ole set him up to fail and now he wants him gone? There does seem like a power struggle at the club and that Ole needs results fast otherwise he’s out.
 
Matriac said:
Yeah, clearly, why ever would a successful man make compromises on behalf of his wife and kids after putting himself first for the past 15 years?
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This ie purely your unfounded, unsubstantiated opinion. Feel free to share though.
 
JPRouve said:
They mainly wasted money but to answer the second question it's essentially Son, Alli, Alderweireld, Trippier, Sissoko and Dier.
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Pouch was appointed Spurs manager on 27 May 2014. Four of them were bought in the same summer.

​
From​
Cost £ m​
Year​
Dier​
Sporting CP​
4.5​
2014​
Son​
Bay. Leverkusen​
27​
2015​
Alli​
MK Dons​
6​
2015​
Alderweireld​
Atlético Madrid​
14.4​
2015​
Trippier​
Burnley​
4.41​
2015​
Sissoko​
Newcastle​
31.5​
2016​
Total:​
​
87.81​
​
 
I don't doubt that he'd make our team outwork others with double sessions and higher intensity of training. Guys who can't keep up such as Shaw would get exposed and they probably wouldn't want to stay to do double sessions.
 
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