A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Hitchez]

It does highlight their status as a club and their general inexperience in league challenges and cup runs. It also highlights the expectations of their fan base.

Tottenham shouldn't have the same expectations as United or City because they're still a tier or two below us. This point has been argued to death though, it's this reality bubble that some of our fans live in when all that matters is trophies and nothing else. In the real world however clubs set milestones and have realistic expectations, Spurs are one of those clubs currently. That doesn't mean they'll remain that kind of club, I actually think with their new Stadium and finances that go with it they should be realistically expect to win trophies on a fairly regular basis. But no doubt they'll need to pay off the loans before they can actually reap the rewards of a new modern stadium.

As for Pochettino, I still think he'll be at Tottenham next season and I do think they'll win the FA Cup this season.

Also worth pointing out that rise in expectations (to the point now that some expect Spurs to challenge for the title) is a result of the good work that Pochhetino has done with Spurs. Essentially, he's become a victim of his own good work at Spurs and is now being judged at much higher standards when it quite simply cannot be ignored that Spurs are not playing in a level playing field with regards to the other title challengers.

 

[ti vu]

This season.

Apologize if the words I will use would be strong.

That's narrow tunnel vision to say it like that. Tottenham keeps talking about making progress each season. Guess what? They're marginally ahead of Chelsea in the league while still have to go to the Bridge which can change the momentum of the run in for both teams. On other competitions they're no better than Chelsea and we're talking about a weakened, ever in crisis Chelsea. Even within this season, when Chelsea was on good form, Tottenham was behind them. So the question is where Tottenham be when Chelsea gets stable again in the future (next season, next decade). Are people just projecting their optimism on Tottenham progress while turning a blind eye on the fact that their best is still not better to other teams' best. Tottenham used their own self in the past as bench mark when teams use the current best as benchmark to try and overtake.

 

[sunama]

The ultimate almost-manager. Talk of progress will continue for years. As will their absence of trophies.

I still can't get over Spurs scoring the most goals, conceding the least goals and still not winning the title.
Had Poch not achieved this feat, I'd have thought this to be impossible.
Poch needs to win a trophy, soon, otherwise he will be forever classed as a good manager who doesn't actually win anything.

 

[::sonny::]

 

[Sky1981]

Also worth pointing out that rise in expectations (to the point now that some expect Spurs to challenge for the title) is a result of the good work that Pochhetino has done with Spurs. Essentially, he's become a victim of his own good work at Spurs and is now being judged at much higher standards when it quite simply cannot be ignored that Spurs are not playing in a level playing field with regards to the other title challengers.

What high standard? He can finish 4 and most of us still give him thumbs up. A good young visionary manager who's unproven in the elite class, he certainly ace the very good class category.

You're talking as if we're using pep standard to judge him. The only time he's compared to pep and jose is when his defender claims he's better than them. Which i find laughable. Other than that 10/10 for pochetinno and his spurs

 

[ROFLUTION]

Also worth pointing out that rise in expectations (to the point now that some expect Spurs to challenge for the title) is a result of the good work that Pochhetino has done with Spurs. Essentially, he's become a victim of his own good work at Spurs and is now being judged at much higher standards when it quite simply cannot be ignored that Spurs are not playing in a level playing field with regards to the other title challengers.

I agree overall but he has some really good players if you ask me. Id happily take about half of their squad at United.

The expectations that he should win something is a bit easier said than done I think.

 

[Mastadon]

I dont see how he can be considered as anything other than a top class manager. He's brought spurs into the top 4 and CL and kept them there on a geniune shoestring budget. Spurs have barely spent anything over the last 5 years while they have been moving up. Imagine what he could do with real financial backing. No question that he's doing an amazing job for them even as an Arsenal supporter its very clear.

 

[ivaldo]

I dont see how he can be considered as anything other than a top class manager. He's brought spurs into the top 4 and CL and kept them there on a geniune shoestring budget. Spurs have barely spent anything over the last 5 years while they have been moving up. Imagine what he could do with real financial backing. No question that he's doing an amazing job for them even as an Arsenal supporter its very clear.

I don't think anyone is doubting he has built a terrific team there. The criticism comes from what he has done with that top team. There's no doubt in my mind that, with the players available at his disposal, he should be competing for major honours. He hasn't done that - yet. At a top side his ability to build a team for peanuts isn't going to be as important as getting that team winning trophies.

 

[Mastadon]

I don't think anyone is doubting he has built a terrific team there. The criticism comes from what he has done with that top team. There's no doubt in my mind that, with the players available at his disposal, he should be competing for major honours. He hasn't done that - yet. At a top side his ability to build a team for peanuts isn't going to be as important as getting that team winning trophies.

For a team like Spurs the main concern is breaking the top 4 and playing in the CL regularly. With their limited finances and stadium build commitments they need to finish top 4 above all else. Not only has he build a terrific team but he has them playing some great stuff as well solid in defence and attack. To expect a team with limited resources like Spurs to have the depth to finish top 4 and win trophies is hardly realistic when United themselves have struggled to finish top 4 post Fergie despite huge spending.

Not that it matters long run of course eventually a rich club like City or Utd will take Pochettino and Kane and Spurs will go back to being an Everton type club. Pochettino is being criticized for not competing for top honors when his team have finished 3rd and 2nd over the last 2 seasons seems quite odd. The fact that Spurs are even being considered for top honors is testament to what he has achieved.

 

[ivaldo]

For a team like Spurs the main concern is breaking the top 4 and playing in the CL regularly. With their limited finances and stadium build commitments they need to finish top 4 above all else. Not only has he build a terrific team but he has them playing some great stuff as well solid in defence and attack. To expect a team with limited resources like Spurs to have the depth to finish top 4 and win trophies is hardly realistic when United themselves have struggled to finish top 4 post Fergie despite huge spending.

Not that it matters long run of course eventually a rich club like City or Utd will take Pochettino and Kane and Spurs will go back to being an Everton type club. Pochettino is being criticized for not competing for top honors when his team have finished 3rd and 2nd over the last 2 seasons seems quite odd. The fact that Spurs are even being considered for top honors is testament to what he has achieved.

Right, but top class managers don't limit their ambition to the bare minimum, do they? With the squad they have Spurs shouldn't be thinking about top 4, they should have ambitions for winning competitions. You're still ignoring the crux of my post. Does he have a team capable of winning trophies? Yes. Is he winning, or coming close to winning, trophies? No.

You can talk about how brilliant he is at putting together a team for pennies until the cows come home. The key to a great manager is being able to turn promise into results. He has not done that. Or are you going to tell me his team isnt good enough to?

 

[Oscar.Z.Acosta]

Must it be serious? What of frivolity and jolly japing?

 

[Womp]

Right, but top class managers don't limit their ambition to the bare minimum, do they? With the squad they have Spurs shouldn't be thinking about top 4, they should have ambitions for winning competitions. You're still ignoring the crux of my post. Does he have a team capable of winning trophies? Yes. Is he winning, or coming close to winning, trophies? No.

You can talk about how brilliant he is at putting together a team for pennies until the cows come home. The key to a great manager is being able to turn promise into results. He has not done that. Or are you going to tell me his team isnt good enough to?

This

 

[GlastonSpur]

For a team like Spurs the main concern is breaking the top 4 and playing in the CL regularly. With their limited finances and stadium build commitments they need to finish top 4 above all else. Not only has he build a terrific team but he has them playing some great stuff as well solid in defence and attack. To expect a team with limited resources like Spurs to have the depth to finish top 4 and win trophies is hardly realistic when United themselves have struggled to finish top 4 post Fergie despite huge spending.

Not that it matters long run of course eventually a rich club like City or Utd will take Pochettino and Kane and Spurs will go back to being an Everton type club. Pochettino is being criticized for not competing for top honors when his team have finished 3rd and 2nd over the last 2 seasons seems quite odd. The fact that Spurs are even being considered for top honors is testament to what he has achieved.

This won't happen: we have/are putting in place the foundations for the long-term - investing close to £1 billion and in the process taking us into the top 10 globally in terms of income. That income will soon be more than double the income of an Everton type club.

 

[Redderp]

Does he have a team capable of winning trophies? Yes. Is he winning, or coming close to winning, trophies? No.

I would say they have been close to winning a trophy. They lost a league cup final, came second in the league and lost in the semi finals in the FA Cup. Like you can’t really get any closer to a trophy than the finals without winning it.

I agree that they need to win a trophy, but i think people underestimate how difficult it is for smaller teams to do. If they get top 4 then it would be 3 times in a row, thats pretty big for a team that is 6 in highest wages in the league.

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to consistently get top 4 when there is 5 other clubs with more money to spend. Thats two richer clubs they have to beat. I think we have like double the wage budget of Spurs and people really underrate how much that means over a long season.

Tottenham have a good starting 11, but very little depth and they have to rely on few players through the whole season.

Tottenham should definitely be able to win one of the cups, but i don’t think one should expect them to win the league and i don’t think it disqualifies Pochettino for a top manager job if he doesn’t win the league. Lots of managers have been hired by top clubs without having won anything before.

 

[Sky1981]

I dont see how he can be considered as anything other than a top class manager. He's brought spurs into the top 4 and CL and kept them there on a geniune shoestring budget. Spurs have barely spent anything over the last 5 years while they have been moving up. Imagine what he could do with real financial backing. No question that he's doing an amazing job for them even as an Arsenal supporter its very clear.

If he finished 4th it'll be about par. Forget liverpool city united. The only big club they better is chelsea. They're finishing where they should be.

Finishing 2nd is a different matter altogether but it doesnt look likely this year.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

I think the finish will be close between Liverpool - Spurs, we are better than both but by fine margins, and will keep an edge above them. City are gone, they are on another planet and have won easily/convincingly.

If Pochettino picks up the FA cup(a big if) and finishes top four I think most people are in agreement that is a great season for Spurs. And I agree with the post above top 4 is par, the fans wont be ecstatic, but will not be disappointed either.

 

[catmandeu]

The fact that trophies are parameters for judging wether a manager is Successful or a player is great is not correct. Ronaldo has never won champions league, messi has never won world cup that doesn't make them any less than great players than Zidane who has won both. Wenger has won two fa cups in last four years , but would call present Wenger better than pochettino? I think, pochettino is a good manager, at least as of now. Look at his budget, look how he uses his most in form player to get the best out of him? Look how he sets his team in attack? Of course he is no jose mourinho ,he Probably won't win champions league with spurs but he doesn't park the bus either. Even with Pep we have our own reservations. I mean, give him Everton and ask him to play like barca, bayern or city ! I think we should give credit where it is due in regards of pochettino.

 

[prath92]

The fact that trophies are parameters for judging wether a manager is Successful or a player is great is not correct. Ronaldo has never won champions league, messi has never won world cup that doesn't make them any less than great players than Zidane who has won both. Wenger has won two fa cups in last four years , but would call present Wenger better than pochettino? I think, pochettino is a good manager, at least as of now. Look at his budget, look how he uses his most in form player to get the best out of him? Look how he sets his team in attack? Of course he is no jose mourinho ,he Probably won't win champions league with spurs but he doesn't park the bus either. Even with Pep we have our own reservations. I mean, give him Everton and ask him to play like barca, bayern or city ! I think we should give credit where it is due in regards of pochettino.

For a player maybe not since a player has 10 other teammates in his team who he does not select. Whereas it’s a fair call for manager since the managers control who plays in the team and how all players play

 

[Harry190]

The type of manager that only needs a bigger platform to be one of the greats. What he has done at Tottenham and Southampton has been quite exceptional. He's taken both teams to another level and has improved players. Give him his due.

 

[Mastadon]

Right, but top class managers don't limit their ambition to the bare minimum, do they? With the squad they have Spurs shouldn't be thinking about top 4, they should have ambitions for winning competitions. You're still ignoring the crux of my post. Does he have a team capable of winning trophies? Yes. Is he winning, or coming close to winning, trophies? No.

You can talk about how brilliant he is at putting together a team for pennies until the cows come home. The key to a great manager is being able to turn promise into results. He has not done that. Or are you going to tell me his team isnt good enough to?

Is qualifying for the top 4 the bare minimum for Spurs? Have you seen how little they have spent?

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/pre...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

I am answering your argument again. In order to win trophies and finish top 4 you need a certain amount of financial strength and depth that Spurs simply don't have. They cannot rotate as much as the other money teams due to this hence the difficulty in finishing top 4 and winning trophies.

Wenger has won 3 FA Cups in the last 4 years but you would be hard pressed to find many people who would take Wenger ahead of Pochettino wouldnt you?

Finally he's been at Spurs for 4 years this season. How long did it take Fergie to start winning titles? Given the time it takes to build and set up a team (and we are talking about Spurs here not an established top 4 team) don't you think its a little bit harsh to be judging him on trophies at the moment?

As for coming close to winning, were they not in contention for the EPL over the last 2 seasons? Meanwhile United who have outspent them by one Pogba every season for the last 5 have come nowhere close to the title. 4 seasons without a trophy doesnt mean much when you look at where he started and where he is now.

He's also only 46 years old! When he inevitably joins Chelsea or City or United then the trophies will start flowing.

 

[ivaldo]

I would say they have been close to winning a trophy. They lost a league cup final, came second in the league and lost in the semi finals in the FA Cup. Like you can’t really get any closer to a trophy than the finals without winning it.

I agree that they need to win a trophy, but i think people underestimate how difficult it is for smaller teams to do. If they get top 4 then it would be 3 times in a row, thats pretty big for a team that is 6 in highest wages in the league.

I think people underestimate how difficult it is to consistently get top 4 when there is 5 other clubs with more money to spend. Thats two richer clubs they have to beat. I think we have like double the wage budget of Spurs and people really underrate how much that means over a long season.

Tottenham have a good starting 11, but very little depth and they have to rely on few players through the whole season.

Tottenham should definitely be able to win one of the cups, but i don’t think one should expect them to win the league and i don’t think it disqualifies Pochettino for a top manager job if he doesn’t win the league. Lots of managers have been hired by top clubs without having won anything before.

You’re doing it too. You’re looking at the history and status of the club, and not what the manager actually has at his disposal. If you uplifted the entire City side and gave them to Huddersfield, would you say it was an incredible achievement for Wagner to lead them to a top 6 finish? Or would you think he should be doing better with the players at his disposal?

 

[ivaldo]

Is qualifying for the top 4 the bare minimum for Spurs? Have you seen how little they have spent?

http://www.transferleague.co.uk/pre...tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

I am answering your argument again. In order to win trophies and finish top 4 you need a certain amount of financial strength and depth that Spurs simply don't have. They cannot rotate as much as the other money teams due to this hence the difficulty in finishing top 4 and winning trophies.

Wenger has won 3 FA Cups in the last 4 years but you would be hard pressed to find many people who would take Wenger ahead of Pochettino wouldnt you?

Finally he's been at Spurs for 4 years this season. How long did it take Fergie to start winning titles? Given the time it takes to build and set up a team (and we are talking about Spurs here not an established top 4 team) don't you think its a little bit harsh to be judging him on trophies at the moment?

As for coming close to winning, were they not in contention for the EPL over the last 2 seasons? Meanwhile United who have outspent them by one Pogba every season for the last 5 have come nowhere close to the title. 4 seasons without a trophy doesnt mean much when you look at where he started and where he is now.

He's also only 46 years old! When he inevitably joins Chelsea or City or United then the trophies will start flowing.

You’re opening line is about net spend...

Why aren’t you looking at the team he has? Without prejudice look at that side and tell me, with those sets of players, it’s an amazing achievement to finish in the top 4.

At this point you’re muddying the line between club and manager. The financial aspects of the club, wage negotiation and expenditure is the domain of Levy. Yes Poch has had input into signing players (along with the DOF) but his chief job is to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal. At the moment he is about par.

Contention? They finished 7 points behind Chelsea last year, and 11 behind Leicester the year before, all in a period in the PL where their rivals were in a massive period of transition.

Time to build and set up a team? How settled do you want this team to be? He’s been at his side longer than any of his title rivals which makes the point a little redundant, don’t you think?

 

[Mastadon]

Why aren’t you looking at the team he has? Without prejudice look at that side and tell me, with those sets of players, it’s an amazing achievement to finish in the top 4.

At this point you’re muddying the line between club and manager. The financial aspects of the club, wage negotiation and expenditure is the domain of Levy. Yes Poch has had input into signing players (along with the DOF) but his chief job is to get the best out of the players he has at his disposal. At the moment he is about par.

Contention? They finished 7 points behind Chelsea last year, and 11 behind Leicester the year before, all in a period in the PL where their rivals were in a massive period of transition.

Time to build and set up a team? How settled do you want this team to be? He’s been at his side longer than any of his title rivals which makes the point a little redundant, don’t you think?[/QUOTE]

Were Spurs title contenders before Poch? What he's done is taken a team that finished 4th twice in 20 years and turned them into title contenders within 4 years. Do you think Spurs 2014 when Poch took over were comparable to City, Liverpool, United, Arsenal, Chelsea at the time? And factor in the lack of financial resources. I personally think he's done an amazing job to bring them to where they are.

You are completely ignoring the context here. We are after all talking about Tottenham Hotspurs which has never been an established top 4 team or an oil money club.

I think without prejudice that if he could afford to sign one Pogba a season over the last 5 seasons he would have won a few trophies including the PL by now.

Wait till he manages United and starts churning out trophies. Then you will get it.

 

[Kostov]

I dont see how he can be considered as anything other than a top class manager. He's brought spurs into the top 4 and CL and kept them there on a geniune shoestring budget. Spurs have barely spent anything over the last 5 years while they have been moving up. Imagine what he could do with real financial backing. No question that he's doing an amazing job for them even as an Arsenal supporter its very clear.

I'm not sure that should be used to loud Pochettino. He inherited a very good team, and didn't need to spend as much. Lloris, Verthonghen, Walker, Rose, Kane, Eriksen they were already there. This summer they sold Walker and he got Aurier, spent a record fee for Sanchez, and brought Moura for lots of money also. Yes Alli and Dier were astute transfers but, Spurs have been taking punts on young players even before he came. (Bale comes to mind). I'm not slating him, but he hasn't showed anything that would tell he would do much better with more money. Spurs operate very shrewdly and that is down to Levy as far as we know.

 

[haram]

I'm not sure that should be used to loud Pochettino. He inherited a very good team, and didn't need to spend as much. Lloris, Verthonghen, Walker, Rose, Kane, Eriksen they were already there. This summer they sold Walker and he got Aurier, spent a record fee for Sanchez, and brought Moura for lots of money also. Yes Alli and Dier were astute transfers but, Spurs have been taking punts on young players even before he came. (Bale comes to mind). I'm not slating him, but he hasn't showed anything that would tell he would do much better with more money. Spurs operate very shrewdly and that is down to Levy as far as we know.

He improved those players tbf.

I agree though, there is no proof what he could really do with more money.

 

[Kostov]

He improved those players tbf.

I agree though, there is no proof what he could really do with more money.

He improved them absolutely. But nobody would convince me that Mourinho wouldn't do the same (as would some other good managers also ex. Conte), maybe in a different way. Mourinho has already done that, except won trophies with Porto, Pochettino hasn't won anything yet.

 

[prath92]

He improved them absolutely. But nobody would convince me that Mourinho wouldn't do the same (as would some other good managers also ex. Conte), maybe in a different way. Mourinho has already done that, except won trophies with Porto, Pochettino hasn't won anything yet.

Nah some of those players were achieving meme status when he came. Walker and Rose for instance, Dembele was seen as not good enough, Lamela was a flop.

Imagine if Mourinho had turned Darmian and Shaw into one of the best in the league, Schneiderlin into one of the best midfielders of the league and Memphis into a key player while Wilson turning out to be one of the best in the world. That is pretty much what pochettino achieved at spurs.

 

[prath92]

Finally he's been at Spurs for 4 years this season. How long did it take Fergie to start winning titles? Given the time it takes to build and set up a team (and we are talking about Spurs here not an established top 4 team) don't you think its a little bit harsh to be judging him on trophies at the moment?

Fergie has already won titles before united though so he wasn’t a nobody

 

[Kostov]

Nah some of those players were achieving meme status when he came. Walker and Rose for instance, Dembele was seen as not good enough, Lamela was a flop.

Imagine if Mourinho had turned Darmian and Shaw into one of the best in the league, Schneiderlin into one of the best midfielders of the league and Memphis into a key player while Wilson turning out to be one of the best in the world. That is pretty much what pochettino achieved at spurs.

I'm sorry but that's rubbish. Even God couldn't turn Darmian into one of the best in the league. He has the ability of a pony. Walker and Rose were solid and young english full backs who Mourinho would have loved to have. Shaw is debatable, but probably he would have played under Poch more. Mourinho instead has been playing with Valencia and Young as full backs, if anything Jose has done more improvement than Poch in that department.

Schneiderlin sank down at Everton and has found his level, and that Memphis and Wilson remark is silly. As we all remember Memphis lost his place before Jose came, to Martial. He showed he can't beat a PL full back to save his life and that he is not good enough. Not sure Lamela has done any better since he's been injured for a year and now is down the pecking order.

And if you think Harry Kane's rise is down to Pochettino, and he could have done the same with James Wilson than you are kidding yourself. There are couple of reports of attitude problems about Wilson, (from Warren Joyce if I'm not mistaken) then you have his injury problems. It makes it for a very weak argument and ridiculous to be held against Mourinho.

 

[prath92]

I'm sorry but that's rubbish. Even God couldn't turn Darmian into one of the best in the league. He has the ability of a pony. Walker and Rose were solid and young english full backs who Mourinho would have loved to have. Shaw is debatable, but probably he would have played under Poch more. Mourinho instead has been playing with Valencia and Young as full backs, if anything Jose has done more improvement than Poch in that department.

Schneiderlin sank down at Everton and has found his level, and that Memphis and Wilson remark is silly. As we all remember Memphis lost his place before Jose came, to Martial. He showed he can't beat a PL full back to save his life and that he is not good enough. Not sure Lamela has done any better since he's been injured for a year and now is down the pecking order.

And if you think Harry Kane's rise is down to Pochettino, and he could have done the same with James Wilson than you are kidding yourself. There are couple of reports of attitude problems about Wilson, (from Warren Joyce if I'm not mistaken) then you have his injury problems. It makes it for a very weak argument and ridiculous to be held against Mourinho.

Walker was also considered a joke in 2014. Had he (or Rose) been sold that summer nobody would have batted an eyelid.

It’s not a slight at Mourinho at all but to say that anybody could have done what pochettino did at spurs is highly incorrect and even stupid tbh

 

[Mastadon]

He improved them absolutely. But nobody would convince me that Mourinho wouldn't do the same (as would some other good managers also ex. Conte), maybe in a different way. Mourinho has already done that, except won trophies with Porto, Pochettino hasn't won anything yet.

Seriously? Look at how United play compared to Spurs and tell me its better? Or that Mourinho has done a better job with the likes of Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Herrera etc. As an Arsenal fan I wouldnt want Mourinho anywhere near the club but Poch would be a clear and immediate improvement because the teams he coaches are solid and play positive attacking football. Despite Wenger having won 3 FA Cups in the last 4 years compared to 0 trophies for Poch I dont think its even close re which manager has done a better job. Clear example of why trophies are not everything when you're looking at such a short timeframe.

Poch is obviously unproven because he hasnt won a big title yet but he hasnt managed a big club either and there is nothing anyone can say to convince me that Spurs are a big club that are expected to win trophies apart from the odd coca cola cup or FA Cup (not that its made much difference to Wenger's job status today).

The Mourinho of Porto is a generation away and there are serious/valid questions asked about his approach today. Honestly who wants to spend the next few years watching Mourinho football? Unless Mourinho wins the league/CL regularly I can't see how Utd fans or any football fan for that matter who grew up watching Ferguson teams are going to enjoy watching Utd games.

 

[Kostov]

Walker was also considered a joke in 2014. Had he (or Rose) been sold that summer nobody would have batted an eyelid.

It’s not a slight at Mourinho at all but to say that anybody could have done what pochettino did at spurs is highly incorrect and even stupid tbh

Nobody said anybody could have done what Pochettino did. I said Mourinho or other good managers and mentioned Conte, before branding something said as stupid, read it properly.

 

[prath92]

Nobody said anybody could have done what Pochettino did. I said Mourinho or other good managers and mentioned Conte, before branding something said as stupid, read it
properly.

You said nobody could convince you that Mourinho or Conte among others could improve walker Rose and other players that spurs had that year. That couldn’t be more wrong

 

[Scroto Baggins]

He's also only 46 years old! When he inevitably joins Chelsea or City or United then the trophies will start flowing.

This is a big deal, I think he is at the perfect club to really hone his managerial nous over the next couple of seasons. Not big enough where instant results and trophies are expected like Real. But big enough to attract good young talent like Eriksen, Sanchez. And a bit of a reputation as a manager that if you come in and perform as a young player, you will get a run. The fans will be happy with top 4 finishes and cup runs.

Also im not convinced his philosophy would fly with a superstar prima donna team. Isnt he notoriously harsh on training and my way or the highway? Like the whole football philosophy and if you don't fit you are gone, was certainly a bit of a clean out at Spurs when he came in. Much easier to replace the manager than players who are now fetching crazy prices in the current market. He can get away with it at Spurs because he has an academy to pick from and all the young players buy into his football philosophy. And has a large say in who he wants to bring into the team to fit his philosophy.

I dont think anyone is arguing given his budget he has done a bad job, people are just questioning his pedigree for places like RM or Barcelona. He has slowly improved Spurs and their depth, look at the team when he took over and their bench compared to now and it's night and day. You have what, 3 maybe 4 survivors from when he took over? Did Eriksen sign for Spurs before or after Pochettino?

 

[Kostov]

You said nobody could convince you that Mourinho or Conte among others could improve walker Rose and other players that spurs had that year. That couldn’t be more wrong

Read it properly. I said nobody could convince me that Mourinho wouldn't have improved them. What's so wrong with that?

 

[GlastonSpur]

... im not convinced his philosophy would fly with a superstar prima donna team. ...

The point here is that Pochettino wouldn't want - far less create - such a team ... not least because the concept of "prima donna" and "team" do not fit together.

If a club has a superstar prima donna team, then they'd only want to appoint Poch if they were entirely willing to see the prima donnas either cut down to size or given the boot.

 

[Kostov]

Seriously? Look at how United play compared to Spurs and tell me its better? Or that Mourinho has done a better job with the likes of Shaw, Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Herrera etc. As an Arsenal fan I wouldnt want Mourinho anywhere near the club but Poch would be a clear and immediate improvement because the teams he coaches are solid and play positive attacking football. Despite Wenger having won 3 FA Cups in the last 4 years compared to 0 trophies for Poch I dont think its even close re which manager has done a better job. Clear example of why trophies are not everything when you're looking at such a short timeframe.

Seriously? Last time I checked we are above them in the table still in the CL and in the FA cup. Mentioning Shaw as a player who hasn't improved is maybe the only player who opposition fans can use to slate Jose. Herrera was our best MF last year, Rashford has played the most games and improved. Pogba started brightly this season, has had a bad injury and had problems with the manager, but don't let that fool you, he is one of the best MF in the league. He made donkeys of your team in December while playing for the same Jose Mourinho. Martial has improved on last season also, and probably has been more productive than in his debut season, compared to the minutes played that is.

An Arsenal fan to not want Jose Mourinho as manager tells you all you need to know about your club. Jose Mourinho is a proven winner, not many can say the same. Unlike Wenger and Poch, Jose has won the league two years ago.

Poch is obviously unproven because he hasnt won a big title yet but he hasnt managed a big club either and there is nothing anyone can say to convince me that Spurs are a big club that are expected to win trophies apart from the odd coca cola cup or FA Cup (not that its made much difference to Wenger's job status today).

Listen let's make it clear, nowhere have I said that Poch isn't a very good manager, I've acknowledged that in previous posts. It is more to do with the hyping like he is some elite manager in the bracket of Mourinho. This bolted part is the reason. Sir Alex did it with Aberdeen, Jose won a CL with Porto regardless of the time or era as you say. There are managers doing extraordinary even now. Jardim won the league in France last year despite PSG, and had a good run in the CL, Pochettino up till now has the second place trophy.

The Mourinho of Porto is a generation away and there are serious/valid questions asked about his approach today. Honestly who wants to spend the next few years watching Mourinho football? Unless Mourinho wins the league/CL regularly I can't see how Utd fans or any football fan for that matter who grew up watching Ferguson teams are going to enjoy watching Utd games.

Yeah it is, does it not count? Jose is 55 not 75. He is one if not the most talented football manager in the world, yeah I can put up with his football if it brought titles here. Arsenal have played nice football since I remember, even better than Fergie's teams, yet have won nothing in 15 years. I enjoy winning, if it comes with playing ''beautifully'' so be it, in the meantime I will have Jose, you can have the Pochettino's and Wenger's.

 

[Mastadon]

Seriously? Last time I checked we are above them in the table still in the CL and in the FA cup.

Yeah after spending 435 mil net or 5 Paul Pogba's more than them over the last 5 sesaons you would sort of expect to be ahead of them. And its not over yet with them 4 points behind. Plus they finished ahead of you for the last 2 seasons.

Mentioning Shaw as a player who hasn't improved is maybe the only player who opposition fans can use to slate Jose. Herrera was our best MF last year, Rashford has played the most games and improved. Pogba started brightly this season, has had a bad injury and had problems with the manager, but don't let that fool you, he is one of the best MF in the league. He made donkeys of your team in December while playing for the same Jose Mourinho. Martial has improved on last season also, and probably has been more productive than in his debut season, compared to the minutes played that is.

Nowhere near the improvement of the Spurs boys mentioned dont you agree? Making a donkey of Arsenal this season is a given we are in full donkey mode.

An Arsenal fan to not want Jose Mourinho as manager tells you all you need to know about your club. Jose Mourinho is a proven winner, not many can say the same. Unlike Wenger and Poch, Jose has won the league two years ago.

Unlike Wenger and Poch he has had almost unlimited budgets. Unlike Wenger and Poch he was also sacked just above the relegation zone after a classic meltdown and losing the dressing room as manager of the existing champions, something even Moyes didnt manage to do. As bad as Wenger has been he has never ever lost the dressing room or suffered a meltdown like Mourinho does.

There is also the fact that Arsenal hates Mourinho so it would never happen.

Listen let's make it clear, nowhere have I said that Poch isn't a very good manager, I've acknowledged that in previous posts. It is more to do with the hyping like he is some elite manager in the bracket of Mourinho. This bolted part is the reason. Sir Alex did it with Aberdeen, Jose won a CL with Porto regardless of the time or era as you say. There are managers doing extraordinary even now. Jardim won the league in France last year despite PSG, and had a good run in the CL, Pochettino up till now has the second place trophy.

I'm not saying Poch is a proven elite manager. Fergie is the greatest of all time and Mourinho will go down as one of the greatest for all he has won. What I am saying is that based on his last 4 years at Spurs I rate him as the 2nd best manger in the league and he deserves a chance at a bigger club. Which is likely to be your club unfortunately as I would have loved him at Arsenal.

Yeah it is, does it not count? Jose is 55 not 75. He is one if not the most talented football manager in the world, yeah I can put up with his football if it brought titles here.

It does count but his team has hardly been performing well despite the huge amount of resources available to them. There are plenty of threads full of ppl complaining about his style of play and performances in bad games.

Spurs are only 4 points behind and again you simply cannot ignore the gulf in resources in the teams. Spurs only ended up with Lucas because Utd got Sanchez. They cannot compete financially with any of the other top 5 teams yet they are up there with the rest (Arsenal aside ffs).

Arsenal have played nice football since I remember, even better than Fergie's teams, yet have won nothing in 15 years. I enjoy winning, if it comes with playing ''beautifully'' so be it, in the meantime I will have Jose, you can have the Pochettino's and Wenger's.

Arsenal haven't played beautiful football in a while its a rare occasion these days with mostly disjointed performances. Spurs as I have said are at such a huge financial disadvantage (half a billion) that you wouldnt expect them to win much.

If you want to pick on someone then go for someone your own size. Go pick on City you have spent about as much as them yet their performances are on another planet. Leave Pochettino out of it till he gets a big team. In the meantime compare yourself to City under Pep and hope that Spurs who have spent half a billion less than you dont overtake you this season.

 

[breakout67]

Net spend is virtually irrelevant because they have a £150m player from their academy, along with a fantastic scouting network that has got them good players for cheap.

If anything, Spurs are quite suspect when it comes to splashing the cash, they bought Sissoko for £30m and Sanchez for £42m. Whether that has to do with the board or Pochettino I don't know.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb/GB1

Spurs have the third highest squad value in the league and are only 5% behind United in that aspect. That is because they have players that are very good and would fetch a pretty penny on the market. Levy and Pochettino have built a lot of value for the club, to the point that they have world class players.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Net spend is virtually irrelevant because they have a £150m player from their academy, along with a fantastic scouting network that has got them good players for cheap.

If anything, Spurs are quite suspect when it comes to splashing the cash, they bought Sissoko for £30m and Sanchez for £42m. Whether that has to do with the board or Pochettino I don't know.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/startseite/wettbewerb/GB1

Spurs have the third highest squad value in the league and are only 5% behind United in that aspect. That is because they have players that are very good and would fetch a pretty penny on the market. Levy and Pochettino have built a lot of value for the club, to the point that they have world class players.

Sissoko I'll grant you, although 30m isn't that much by today's standards.

But Sanchez is only 21 and has been brought as a longer-term prospect. He's had to play a lot because of Alderweireld's absence, but in general has been good IMO. I regard his purchase as a sound investment.