Di Matteo
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
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Di Matteo
Di Matteo
Klopp won when LVG was in charge of BM, I believe. Tells you everything
Some managers just have it easy from the fans and even opposition fans like Poch does. I just don't get the hype. He's a good manager but people even compare him to a young Wenger, really? Perhaps i'm unlucky but whenever I've watched Spurs play they didn't seem very entertaining nor as attractive as Poch acolyte's make it believe. Honestly i get bored pretty fast watching them play. I like Son, he's an exciting player, other than that they are the typical pragmatic team.
Ah feck of course, he was Manager when we beat Chelsea in the CL Final right?
Point is he hasn't. Conte made Juve strong again (step 1) and a winning side at national level against a stronger side (Allegri's AC Milan in 2011, step 2) but he was not able to believe the club could go to level 3 and left; Allegri took the baton and doubled on that by making Juve a consistent force abroad again (step 3) and a treble-attempting club every given year (step 4). In this tie and according to all neutrals, Juve was the clear favourite to go through because of that incremental progress since 2011, even if we all know we are not as good as last year maybe. If "bottling" must be called this spade, it was on Juve's more than Spurs. Spurs must take heart from their recent progress and their exciting potential and keep going, provided that the club, the manager and the players really are all on the same page.
Yup. I have the image of him consoling a crying John Terry burned into my brain.
If the refree makes unfair calls; if a ball that went in was ruled out; if you get an undeserved red card; if the opponent's best players for some strange reasons are ruled out of a game; if a goalkeeper like De Gea slips while trying to play the ball out; if we survived 30 shots on target and conceeded only one with 5 hitting the crossbar etc.
Not if we play a team over two legs and we score 4 solid goals while defending brilliantly against a formidable attack that failed to take its chances.
Well the last time i offer my opinion that juve is better someone told me I'm biased and there's no point talking to me.
I think so, yes. I just did not think they threw the towel. Last year vs Chelsea they lost to the champions in a very even game that could have gone either way. Losing to West Ham in the LC this year was more of a freak result considering they threw away a two goal lead. They just don't have whatever that it that is needed in one off Cup games which is something they are working on. But their overall level as a team has been steadily improving year after year and consistency wise, I am not sure anyone has been better than them since Pochettino took over. I don't think they will ever reach the level of City and potentially us because financially, they just can't compete and it doesn't matter how good you are once there is a significant financial gap. But I think Pochettino at a club that can compete financially has as high of a potential as anyone to come close to Pep's achievements.
At his age, Mourinho had won 2 league titles & 1 UCL in Portugal plus 2 league titles in Chelsea.
Poch is overrated. He will never win a spoon at Spurs. However, the media love his type cos he plays attacking football all the time(even when common sense should prevail & defend hard like Juve did for most parts of last night’s game).
“Poets don’t win many titles”.
As much as I don't want to take any credits away from Poch, I think there is something wrong with not winning one or two trophies in his career by now especially as Spurs manager. This doesn't mean he is not good because he is and it also doesn't mean that a manager is poor if he doesn't win trophies. But within the context in which Poch is debated (often compared with Klopp, Jose, etc), surely, silverware becomes important. And let's be frank, the Spurs team he has built (kidos to him) is well capable of winning something. The problem has been Poch's game management at crucial times. It's something he needs to improve on and I believe he can. In the mean time, I think he still has a lot to prove to earn being compared to the great managers in the game.
People seem to have a wrong idea about "football forum" on a specific team platform. It can be rational, but in the end of the day it's opposition fan forum, and there is no sympathy for losing beautifully but deservedly. There is no bias in that the other poster said. There are some people going out of the way to try to gloss over the simply fact that Poch has been outwitted by Allegri by completely ignoring any kind of context. If it's biased opinion then you should hear something like: Tottenham was lucky on some of their goal they scored (!!!). Tottenham never in good position to advance. Look at the Cl thread during them game. If you don't know the score you would have thought Juventus was completely out of the tie.
Why Tottenham got all the praise after the result of first leg despite for all so called domination in that second half, their game plan only succeeded to equalizing and keeping the draw without creating what you can call abundance of clear chance (stats backed this), but when talking about how they lose is considered bias against them? It's not the first time Juventus turned a tie around after unfavored first leg result. It's also not the first time Tottenham got overturned after being in good position either. Is saying so considered bias now on non Tottenham platform?
I find it mind boggling in order to not be considered biased and be a reasonable football fan you should say Spurs deserved to win and outplayed Juve. For some reason saying the opposite about Juve deserving to defeat them is considered biased, anti-Poch and not a reasonable opinion. There's only one way for some then they blame you for being "biased". Ridiculous.
He's a good manager and someone who definitely will be around the top of every big clubs' shortlist if they change managers, but if he is to stay at Spurs, he needs to start winning something- LC, FA Cup, it doesn't matter.
He was lucky that there was an air of negativity around the club for no apparent reason when he joined (they were 5th IIRC when they sacked AVB, behind an in-form Arsenal side, Luis Suarez driven Pool, Chelsea under Mou and a City side who are backed by a country's government), and so winning over fans was pretty easy for him. But, the excuse that "we aren't rich like Utd or City"/ "we shouldn't even be this high, be grateful" argument can not stand for a lot more years. They have a great starting XI and should focus on keeping these players for as long as they can and get in some good squad players as well.
Additionally, what has worked in his favour and went against Koeman at Everton, AVB at Spurs, etc. has been that he hasn't had a transfer window where he has spent a lot of cash. Once, he does that, the relationship with board changes, the expectations change and should the signings not work out, you are a dead man. It would be interesting how he rebuilds this Spurs side if he does stay for that long
He was lucky that there was an air of negativity around the club for no apparent reason when he joined (they were 5th IIRC when they sacked AVB, behind an in-form Arsenal side, Luis Suarez driven Pool, Chelsea under Mou and a City side who are backed by a country's government), and so winning over fans was pretty easy for him. But, the excuse that "we aren't rich like Utd or City"/ "we shouldn't even be this high, be grateful" argument can not stand for a lot more years. They have a great starting XI and should focus on keeping these players for as long as they can and get in some good squad players as well.
Additionally, what has worked in his favour and went against Koeman at Everton, AVB at Spurs, etc. has been that he hasn't had a transfer window where he has spent a lot of cash. Once, he does that, the relationship with board changes, the expectations change and should the signings not work out, you are a dead man. It would be interesting how he rebuilds this Spurs side if he does stay for that long
Poch is run out of time to prove he is got what it takes to make final step to become an elite manager. If he cant win trophies in his time in Spurs i doubt other big clubs come calling him unless it PSG. He is run out of excuse too.
What i find it bizzare is Poch's fans want their saint to be consider one of the elite but when he is judging by measurement of such elite standard manager they defend him like crazy saying it unfair to judge him with such bla bla bla bleh and brand people who judge him as anti-Poch or criminal to football. You know what, if Poch is an elite manager or at least great manager, the measurement is trophy and title with continuity to win such things. Mourinho never been look as beauty playing manager but he is serial winner, Pep is one too.
What i find it bizzare is Poch's fans want their saint to be consider one of the elite but when he is judging by measurement of such elite standard manager they defend him like crazy saying it unfair to judge him with such bla bla bla bleh and brand people who judge him as anti-Poch or criminal to football. You know what, if Poch is an elite manager or at least great manager, the measurement is trophy and title with continuity to win such things. Mourinho never been look as beauty playing manager but he is serial winner, Pep is one too.
There is a difference between Poch and Pep, Zidane, Rijkaard, Luis Enriquez in authority term. The latters were top class players and won things. In Pep case, there were oppose in the dressing room as Eto'o reveal. He had someone like Xavi, Puyol, Valdez... to help out. These are top class players and with the right coaching, he was able to prove himself. Rijkaard pretty much hit rock bottom with Barcelona before they bounced back. Luis Enriquez was under pressure before Barcelona turned thing around and ended the season. Vaverde has connection with Barcelona. Won lesser prestige trophies with them as player. Won smaller leagues, and guided Espanyol to UEFA Cup final!
The point is ego in the dressing room at big clubs is not easy. SAF is greatly respected because he used resource well and a big team manager. The norm at big clubs is that since you're walking on thin line why working on some principle like net spend but gamble on big money. Big money attract big egos. Pep is no exception from this as time shows. And he built his reputation and had experience to handle the situation. From different players, things ain't all rosy either.
Managing ego is one if not the biggest task for manager. We're talking about players with financial package that is worth the value of smaller clubs. Emery looks like a strawman at PSG despite tactically sound and proven consistently overachiever/ winner at smaller clubs. Big clubs don't wait around for you to bring in young players who you can trust. So either you are very lucky to get a job at big club who is in crisis and get back on top with them, you have to prove yourself a winner with smaller clubs (smaller league) to build some kind of reputation.
I see where you're coming from but it isn't all black and white in terms of their progress, imo. They might finish in a lower place this year, but surely we should take into account their upheaval to a new stadium, losing one of their best players in Walker to a rival, and the amount of money City and United have spent which, for Spurs, is impossible to compete with. All things considered, to do as well as they have done in their CL campaign (Madrid and Dortmund in their group, a constant finalist in Juve in the last 16) and (maybe) keep CL footy for another year is good, wouldn't you say?
We have the same arguments with José as well. I personally don't want him here due to the football we play but he deserves credit for the trophies last year and - hopefully - finishing inside the top 4 again this year. Just because I don't like his way of football doesn't negate what he's achieved here so far likewise with Poch in that his lack of trophies doesn't negate the way he's brought them to the standards they are currently at.
To be fair, they were without one of their best players in Alderweireld for both legs against a team who's been a constant in CL finals these past few years. To push them as close as they did deserves credit, imo. The way they through their lead in a matter of minutes last night also deserves criticism, but one doesn't negate the other. In my opinion, anyway.
Pochettino trying to get Neymar to follow his tactical plan would be fun to watch. No one has been able to accomplish it, Luis Enrique basically let him do what he wanted and Emery has done the exact same.
All the pts above is just a nice plus points. Just like our predicament is excuses. At the end of the day 10 years from now people only remember the winner (not us, before anyone gets edgy, and at a stretch runner up. Nobody remember anything else beyond that.
And yes.. i say that imho in a neutral perspective. If united finishes 4th I'll still say we're having a shit season, no excuse. If they finished 2nd then good, no if and buts. Ditto if city finished first, i wont use the net spend as a stick to diminished their title.
One rule for all, a footnote for everything else.
The "you need to win something" to be a good coach must be the new dumb thing to say. So basically there are about seven good coaches across England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany and everybody else is trash. If Eddie Howe doesn´t win a title with Bournemouth he´s not a good coach. If Poch wins the Cockatoo Cup, he´s suddenly a great coach. 
The "you need to win something" to be a good coach must be the new dumb thing to say. So basically there are about seven good coaches across England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany and everybody else is trash. If Eddie Howe doesn´t win a title with Bournemouth he´s not a good coach. If Poch wins the Cockatoo Cup, he´s suddenly a great coach.
Shocking to compare Bournemouth to Tottenham. One has Joshua King up top and the other has the most consistent goalscorer in Europe. That can be applied across most of the team. Apparently Spurs are a better 'footballing' team than us, if they are then they better win some trophies because that's what is expected of top teams.
Most would say that last season, Spurs were a better team than United. One manager won two trophies with an inferior team while the other got knocked out in the same competitions. Does Pochettino need Ronaldo and Messi in attack, Xavi and Modric in midfield, Maldini and Nesta in defence before he can win something?
So this is basically United fans being triggered by the wide held believe, everywhere outside of United fans, that Tottenham play better football.
I'm not saying Poch is blameless for their defeat, but he could reasonably respond that having a bit of cash to buy that extra quality player might have pushed them over the line yesterday. A win is a win, regardless of money spent, but I think a lot of the reason people defend Poch is that he is playing great football and winning at a good clip despite other teams vastly outspending him every single season. Whenever he moves on, I think we'll see that Spurs' next manager will find that a difficult feat to replicate.
Eh?? I don't care about 'better football'. I'm not one of those that orgasms over passing triangles, overlapping fullbacks, and possession football. If anything Spurs are quite ordinary relative to City who are the ones that are a benchmark to surpass.
Spurs are considered a top team and are judged as such, it doesn't matter that they don't spend a lot of money because lack of money doesn't turn Harry Kane into an average striker or Eriksen into an average playmaker.
If Pochettino can't win trophies with such a top quality team, then he's not cut out for the top clubs.
Definitely. But that is true for nearly every manager after they spend more than 3-4 seasons. They know their players inside out and the tactics are designed that way- hence the reason why Moyes at Everton seemed a pretty good manager, and Wenger and Fergie overachieved with their sides
The "you need to win something" to be a good coach must be the new dumb thing to say. So basically there are about seven good coaches across England, Spain, France, Italy and Germany and everybody else is trash. If Eddie Howe doesn´t win a title with Bournemouth he´s not a good coach. If Poch wins the Cockatoo Cup, he´s suddenly a great coach.
Not really.
But when comparing poch to jose/pep the answer is obvious who's better.
Pep and jose has won, they've made it. The titles are etched in their name in the football lore. Pochetinno is bag of potential, and he still has to win stuff.
Nobody is saying pochetinno is a bad manager, he just havent really proven himself with titles.
And i dont say this because it's pep. Zidane was a suspect 3 years ago, even people frown upon guardiola when he first start. But along the way theyve proven their worth and hence they got all the accolades.
If poch follows their footstep and progression then nobody can deny it from him.
Not surprised to see Poch being defended, for some he can do no wrong.
There is absolutely no excuse for Spurs going out last night. They had the better XI, 2 away goals going into the game and went 1 up. It's down to poor game management. Simple as that.
There is absolutely no excuse for Spurs going out last night. They had the better XI, 2 away goals going into the game and went 1 up. It's down to poor game management. Simple as that.
I'd love it if we batter Tottenham and made them eat humble pie. Love it.
Preferably by letting them have all the ball tippy tapping all match long only to concede a flukey counter attack.
And I'll post something like take your beautiful football somewhere else and feck off
I'd be rooting for them to lose the next 10 match and hope they finished 5th, kane got fed up and leave for madrid, and they go downward spiral into midtable oblivion.
Preferably by letting them have all the ball tippy tapping all match long only to concede a flukey counter attack.
And I'll post something like take your beautiful football somewhere else and feck off
I'd be rooting for them to lose the next 10 match and hope they finished 5th, kane got fed up and leave for madrid, and they go downward spiral into midtable oblivion.
I wouldn’t go that far but it’s right that he is questioned after overseeing results like yesterday’s.
Spurs were 1-0 up on the night, with two away goals in the bag. Spurs’ players should have had the composure to see it out. At the same time, in that position, while Spurs led Pochettino had a chance to influence this game. He chose not to.
Pochettino clearly is not a bad manager. However, when people suggest he should get top jobs, it’s legit to question if he’s shown enough to get it over the line at the highest level. Has he made that big sub in a big game that won it? Is it down to him that the course of a match changed and Spurs won or got close to winning pots?
Pochettino’s record has been that of a nearly man. Nearly beat Leicester to the title, nearly beat Chelsea in the FA Cup semi final, nearly got to the last 8 in the European Cup...Nobody can hold him accountable for not getting over the line. However, I struggle to remember any in game management that got them closer at the key point. Until he shows that capability I’m not sold on him at a big club.
Genius 
Updated look at Spurs trophy cabinet:
I said "Spurs today" are a better side than Chelsea and Arsenal. This season they have been. Not that they've accomplished anything significant in terms of honors.
I am sometimes bewildered at how narrow-minded some people seem to be. When was the last time Tottenham won any trophy before Pochettino? Wasn't it a Juande Ramos fluke League cup win in 2008 or so? Other than that, absolutely nothing.
The fact that he's made them competitive is definitely something. He's made Tottenham one of the clubs that could actually win something, and that should surely count. Jurgen Klopp had managed Mainz through seven seasons, getting them from Bundesliga 2 to Bundesliga, than to Europe, and then getting relegated without being able to take them back to Bundesliga the very next season.
That's when he resigned, but Dortmund didn't despair when hiring them. By the logic present here, he should have never been given chance to manage Dortmund, and he's gotten club back to the position of the German powerhouse.
Zidane and Guardiola made nothing of a real note before getting chance to manage two of the possibly biggest clubs in the world.
Hell, Allegri came to Milan after managing Cagliari. In his first season he was ninth with Cagliari, only to be sacked in the second season with Cagliari in 12th place. First season with Milan, and he won the Scudetto. Conte only won Serie B before landing Juventus job.
Of course, some of the managers are proven to be incapable of managing at the highest level after overachieving with smaller clubs, but isn't it the same with the players?
Movement of managers should be and mostly is the same as movement of players. Whoever stands out in club with lower reputation should logically get the chance to prove himself in bigger club.
I believe Pochettino has overachieved in Tottenham speaking in broader terms, and as such will be given chance to manage at a higher level. And let's not portray Tottenham as the highest level of football. Because regardless of progress he's made with the club, they are not elite club and probably won't be, whoever is in charge.
The fact that he's made them competitive is definitely something. He's made Tottenham one of the clubs that could actually win something, and that should surely count. Jurgen Klopp had managed Mainz through seven seasons, getting them from Bundesliga 2 to Bundesliga, than to Europe, and then getting relegated without being able to take them back to Bundesliga the very next season.
That's when he resigned, but Dortmund didn't despair when hiring them. By the logic present here, he should have never been given chance to manage Dortmund, and he's gotten club back to the position of the German powerhouse.
Zidane and Guardiola made nothing of a real note before getting chance to manage two of the possibly biggest clubs in the world.
Hell, Allegri came to Milan after managing Cagliari. In his first season he was ninth with Cagliari, only to be sacked in the second season with Cagliari in 12th place. First season with Milan, and he won the Scudetto. Conte only won Serie B before landing Juventus job.
Of course, some of the managers are proven to be incapable of managing at the highest level after overachieving with smaller clubs, but isn't it the same with the players?
Movement of managers should be and mostly is the same as movement of players. Whoever stands out in club with lower reputation should logically get the chance to prove himself in bigger club.
I believe Pochettino has overachieved in Tottenham speaking in broader terms, and as such will be given chance to manage at a higher level. And let's not portray Tottenham as the highest level of football. Because regardless of progress he's made with the club, they are not elite club and probably won't be, whoever is in charge.
Updated look at Spurs trophy cabinet:
Now all you need to add is a picture of United’s trophy room or Mourinho’s trophies.
BVB wasn't considered a big team anymore before Klopp got the job. They used to be finishing 5th-7th before appointing him and they had no expectations for him to win the league or anything. The fact that he won the league twice with them is what called "over achievement".
Otherwise, sorry but your logic is flawed. You say that Spurs used to win nothing anyway but Poch overachieved with them. He's doing a very good job with them no doubt, but by your logic the club state is still as it's, winning nothing and just trying to get into top 4 each season what can exactly be called "over achievement" here ? The over achievement will be doing something their former managers didn't do, like winning some trophies.
How can you compare Klopp guiding BVB who used to finish below 5th each season to the league title from Bayern, the most dominant force at Germany, and not once, but twice in a row, with Poch who is finishing in top 4 and not winning even a domestic cup so far ?
Poch is doing a very good job, no one can deny that, but let's stop with that "over achievement" thing. He built a good team, he plays good football, he challenges for top 4 regularly, but he didn't win anything just like their former managers to say he did something unique that their previous managers didn't actually do. Over achieving means he did something this club isn't used to do anymore.
Klopp's work with BVB is far superior to anything Pochettino has done. This obsession with history as if what Tottenham have not done for 30 years is relevant to todays game is strange.
Tottenham are a good team NOW, and have been a good team for roughly 2 seasons. They have some standout players in the team that are above 'top 4 trophies'. The simple fact is that players like Kane, Eriksen, Alderwireld would not look out of place in the best teams in the world, that is the quality of these players.
Pochettino has improved Spurs, that's credit to him. But he is not a youth coach, he is first team manager. When a first team manager has multiple world class players in his team is it unreasonable to expect at least a good cup win from him?
Tottenham are a good team NOW, and have been a good team for roughly 2 seasons. They have some standout players in the team that are above 'top 4 trophies'. The simple fact is that players like Kane, Eriksen, Alderwireld would not look out of place in the best teams in the world, that is the quality of these players.
Pochettino has improved Spurs, that's credit to him. But he is not a youth coach, he is first team manager. When a first team manager has multiple world class players in his team is it unreasonable to expect at least a good cup win from him?
Can't believe people still don't understand this. The way they went out to Juve is a problem at the highest level, simple as.
Because winning in Germany generally means you have to be better than Bayern. There are too many good sides in England, I'd say it's obvious. Bayern are obviously going to have some poor seasons, that's how Werder, Stuttgart and Wolfsburg won their most recent titles. In England, three or four contenders have to be poor in order for non-contender to have a chance. A little bit too much.
And let's take out Klopp for a second, I have also mentioned Allegri and Conte. What they achieved before landing two top jobs in Italy is not even close to what anyone would consider good enough for managers who could soon become part of the elite.
Top clubs are able to adress what kind of manager they need, and also to evaluate manager's potential.
I am pretty sure Pochettino will be successful after Tottenham, but regardless of that, I don't think it's fair to claim he's overrated just because of the fact he hasn't won with Tottenham.
Claudio Ranieri has won title with Leicester in a one-off season, he surely isn't better manager than Pochettino just because he made that.
And let's take out Klopp for a second, I have also mentioned Allegri and Conte. What they achieved before landing two top jobs in Italy is not even close to what anyone would consider good enough for managers who could soon become part of the elite.
Top clubs are able to adress what kind of manager they need, and also to evaluate manager's potential.
I am pretty sure Pochettino will be successful after Tottenham, but regardless of that, I don't think it's fair to claim he's overrated just because of the fact he hasn't won with Tottenham.
Claudio Ranieri has won title with Leicester in a one-off season, he surely isn't better manager than Pochettino just because he made that.