Get over yourself kid. Don't try and find internet glory when you're a real life loser.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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Get over yourself kid. Don't try and find internet glory when you're a real life loser.
We... or at least i didnt critized poch for losing or not winning the league or cup.
In fact i didnt critized him at all, i just think he's not all that
Achieving what your team achieved with all its constraint (finance, depth, etc) are just par for your team strength (world class striker, some gems in your team either bought of happens to be your youth product, good manager, decline of the usual suspect in top 4)
I have no problem with people thinking he's a very good manager and worth a punt, i just find people saying he's the next saf or the next jose mourinho or the next lvg or any other great manager before him as laughable at this time when lo and behold he hasnt had a trophy under his belt.
Managers like jose lvg saf simeone etc deserves their reputation not because of their supposedly ideology or liekableness but because they actually won something and many things
Saf wont be united manager if his aberdeen is only runner up in that euro cup final, we wont know who's mourinho if he didnt win that cl with porto which opens up the chelsea job, nor if lvg achieved runner up with ajax and qf in the cl. They're all given the best job in the world and the best team to managed because they won things against all odds (porto being minnows in cl, aberdeen a scottish against the mighty Barcelona, ajax of amsterdam), nobody expect them to triumph but they did.
It's just the world we live in sadly, luck and fate plays apart in one's career. What if robin didnt score that header, what if scholes goal is allowed etc etc but at the end of the day they won, pochetinno doesnt.
Pochettino is just Wenger without the trophies. Change my mind.
Some of the criticisms are silly and over the top. Hes done a good job with you guys. But theres a fair few weaknesses that keep popping up for him. Maybe they're weaknesses of your squad or just your circumstances atm. As a potential United manager I dont rate him really but then there's no one out there that really stands out for me.
I dont like him much despite recognising hes a decent manger. His attitude to cups is lousy, it might the first time hes actually said 'i dont care about cups' but hes been saying it for a long time tbf. I find that kind of annoying and I dont care about Spurs in the slightest. It'd drive me up the wall if i supported them.
Big game management as you say - he doesn't really have that many options so the lack of a plan b and all that is hard to criticise him too much for. Its really doesn't seem like a strength though, whatever the excuses hes underachieved a bit in head to head games. I kind of suspect if that kind of flexibility was really important to him he'd have picked up one or two options during his time too, even if they were cheap and not particularly great players.
The manner you lose some bigger games - the lack of discipline and the way you can get quite dirty. Its so, so counterproductive. Is that him or his players?
Its hard to say how he'd react to some of the bigger ego's in the game too - How well would his tactics hold up if he had neymar strolling around not doing very much when you lose the ball? His tactic of choice seems kind of dependent on everyone getting stuck in and working hard. Would he be able to get a player like that wanting to play and score for him?
Not all of the questions are relevant to spurs. Your not going to be signing Neymar, you can manage without a squad of diva's. But this thread seems more directed at him as a potential United manager so ... Dealing with awkward players is going to be part of the job for our managers sometimes.
His awful away record against top sides.
People keep talking about low budget as if it's a good thing. The thing is, this guy is probably losing Eriksen soon if he doesn't win a trophy.
Yeah it's a low budget but when you're not winning trophies he is sucking the life out of the players who will want to leave soon.
Also when Eriksen, the defenders, midfield, and goalkeeper all age at the same time it will be hard replacing them all in one go..
Do you honestly think Man Utd players would play for Poch who doesn't know what it's like to be a top pro
Poch couldn't get his second string fired up for the FA cup
While Ole used it as a springboard for Sanchez and Lukaka to get their mojo back
Yeah it's a low budget but when you're not winning trophies he is sucking the life out of the players who will want to leave soon.
Also when Eriksen, the defenders, midfield, and goalkeeper all age at the same time it will be hard replacing them all in one go..
Do you honestly think Man Utd players would play for Poch who doesn't know what it's like to be a top pro
Poch couldn't get his second string fired up for the FA cup
While Ole used it as a springboard for Sanchez and Lukaka to get their mojo back
Also you don't hear anyone harping on about a depleted squad in favour of any other manager.
Simeone is a good measuring stick. He keep losing his best players year after year(apart from Griezmann and Godin). Keeps bringing new ones and still is always up there for the league and CL.
Actually won something - defying all odds and beat Real for his CdR none the less.
He's working with a fraction of Barca's and Real's budgets and is competing against the two best clubs in the world at the moment.
Poch has done a great job for Spurs, but is way below his level for example if we're talking about winning stuff under budget.
Actually won something - defying all odds and beat Real for his CdR none the less.
He's working with a fraction of Barca's and Real's budgets and is competing against the two best clubs in the world at the moment.
Poch has done a great job for Spurs, but is way below his level for example if we're talking about winning stuff under budget.
Yes City have a strong bench, it was wrong of me to quote them
His most recent interview is amazing, he might as well just be saying we just want to be the new Arsenal.
Hardly motivational to constantly tell your team that you're not able to compete and not to bother trying to win. It's even more ridiculous when he's got the best striker in the world and 3 or 4 other top talents.
I don't buy that they couldn't bring in a few squad players. Plenty of their purchases have not been cheap. It's very convenient for Poch not to strengthen and maintain this excuse.
Hardly motivational to constantly tell your team that you're not able to compete and not to bother trying to win. It's even more ridiculous when he's got the best striker in the world and 3 or 4 other top talents.
I don't buy that they couldn't bring in a few squad players. Plenty of their purchases have not been cheap. It's very convenient for Poch not to strengthen and maintain this excuse.
Can you give me any stats of this being true?
edit: our away record is probably quite bad, I was thinking just head to head top 6 mini table. I still wonder how it would compare to other teams.
I did think ‘I wonder how the players feel about not competing for trophies’ when I saw his quote. Baffles me why you would go there and not compete every season. Guess when Kane retires he’ll look back fondly on all those 4th place winners medals he has.
Career wise yes but not a great deal more
Your away record vs United(W - D - L) since Poch took over:
1 - 0 - 5
vs City
1 - 1 - 2
vs Liverpool
0 - 2 - 3
vs Chelsea
1 - 1 - 5
vs Arsenal
1 - 3 - 2
Total (all competitions)
4 - 7 - 17
he actually bettered in the course of last year. Had only 1 win in 18 games away.
At home I think is pretty good all things considered.
I said weeks ago how negative his interviews were and how poorly it would go down with the fan base of a big club, or indeed a dressing room full of players with the expectation of winning trophies. But the comments today have taken that to a new level. Spurs have won 3 trophies in 32 years, they shouldn’t be turning up their nose at any silverware. Winning the fecking defunct Intertoto cup would be a step forward for them.
If Spurs, a big name in English football, are openly saying they have no goal to win trophies, then their entire purpose is just commercial at this point. How any fan could accept such a mentality is just beyond me.
I like Poch as a manager of clubs with limited resources, but the mentality and attitude he has displayed is completely antithetical to what you want in charge of a big club. He either has to take a step up to the next level and reevaluate his goals, or accept being a good manager of middle tier clubs.
The very best managers are fecking gutted and angry when they lose, and focused on bouncing back. They don't meekly accept it. The very best managers accept responsibility and accountability for their results, they don’t come armed with a catalogue of excuses or downplaying of expectations.
Poch needs to learn this if he wants to make it to the top. But ultimately, if he doesn’t care about winning trophies, he’s already at the perfect club.
If Spurs, a big name in English football, are openly saying they have no goal to win trophies, then their entire purpose is just commercial at this point. How any fan could accept such a mentality is just beyond me.
I like Poch as a manager of clubs with limited resources, but the mentality and attitude he has displayed is completely antithetical to what you want in charge of a big club. He either has to take a step up to the next level and reevaluate his goals, or accept being a good manager of middle tier clubs.
The very best managers are fecking gutted and angry when they lose, and focused on bouncing back. They don't meekly accept it. The very best managers accept responsibility and accountability for their results, they don’t come armed with a catalogue of excuses or downplaying of expectations.
Poch needs to learn this if he wants to make it to the top. But ultimately, if he doesn’t care about winning trophies, he’s already at the perfect club.
It's probably why Eriksen isn't looking to sign a new deal. He knows what's going on.
Spurs reached top 4 twice in four years before Pochettino arrived there. And that was with a strong United, which pretty much meant that there were only 3 spots for team 4. I am not even sure that Poch did that much. Him and Spurs were juts lucky that some of the other top clubs were in mess at the time when Harry Kane came at age.
There's no doubt the the club's management agree with him. But don't insult the fans in the process. Tottenham fans want to win something.
What's another top four qualification going to do for them? It's not like the money is being invested into the team.
Why can't a manager be evaluated in both? Do well in the league while winning a couple of smaller trophies. That would be a sign of a great manager.
The excuses that Poch gets are very similar to Moyes one 6-7 years ago. Hey, it doesn't matter that he didn't win a trophy, McLaren won a trophy, is he a better manager? Hey he did better than anyone without money to spend (but in both cases, where they spent big it was more miss than hit). Why does it really matter that a manager does well in low key transfers when at United he will buy at a different level of market, etc etc. It is like time has gone back but United fans haven't learnt their lesson.
Lower salaries than other big teams, club and manager openly showing lack of ambition. Why would you stay?
You're one of the main players, soon get to play in a brand new stadium, and he's living in London which is probably a big factor.
Just trying to find counter-arguments though, because in principle I agree - he'd walk into pretty much every team in the world at this stage and now at 26, soon to be 27, he should make the step up if he wants it. And not trying to be a WUM but he should aim for a team like Real or Barca, possibly Juventus or Bayern, if he wants to win things imo, not United who could or could not be a work in progress for the next few years.
Gopher cheeks can get fecked, I want Ole! 
Simeone actually won the league too, ahead of the mighty Barca and Real. And unlike Spurs who go in UCL to make the numbers, Atletico were 1 minute away from winning it (and one penalty a couple of years later). Plus he has won Europa too.
He has won more than Poch will ever win.
Liverpool went from finishing 20+ points behind City to challenging in one summer. Football can move a lot in a short space of time. I do agree if Real, Barca or Juve come in, we are unlikely to be considered. However, I believe we can compete for tittles soon, if we get our act together and signing players like Eriksen would be a sign.
Twice in fact!
Agreed with the rest. Not having the same budget available and not being the best club in the country doesn't mean that you should turn your nose to cups like EL, CdR, etc.
He has won 7 titles there(5 if you discount super cups). Those are the metrics he'll be remembered, not finishing ahead of Real in the standings (and not winning the title).
Thanks.
But is this significantly worse than other teams in the big 6? I'm not sure this is unique for Spurs, but if it is then yes that's something he needs to get right, although the overall quality of the team is also important.
Yes of course things can change quickly and I certainly won't rule out the possibility that you're going to challenge next season, but if I were Eriksen, I'd rather choose a "safe" option like Bayern, Barca or Juventus instead of a question mark like United if trophies is really what he's after.
I would say so. Mourinho at United had his worst away record I think in years and many journos took a shot at him with headlines - is he on decline?
From memory his record was something like 4-5-7 away from home and still much better than what Poch has here.
He has pretty good record against Chelsea/Arsenal IMO, but very underwhelming against Liverpool. So-so against the Manchester teams.
Definitely needs to raise his game against Pool in terms of improvement.
The rest of the season will be a good indication of whether he'll improve that aspect(away form) - considering you need to go to Chelsea, City and Liverpool. Bournemouth and Soton away won't be easy for you as well.
Levy wouldn't sell you a cold.
Can see you've at least tried to offer a counter argument but that's the equivalent of your work place getting a new office and them thinking you're important to them. Sure as shit someone else will think the same thing and pay you more too. Eriksen could play anywhere, ultimately he'll go where he's paid best and has the best chance of winning silverware. United all depends on how settled he is in England but he'd be daft to turn down a move to Barcelona if they came in.
These kind of statements are just silly. Spurs fans made same kind of posts when Walker was still at Spurs, saying how Levy won't sell key players to league rivals and then sold Walker to City, City at that time finished below Spurs.
I knew we'd sell Walker to City.
Levy doesn't like United. He doesn't like how you did business with Berbatov and will avoid selling to you at all costs.
Maybe if there was no other alternative.
Look, he has a year left on his contract. If Eriksen prices himself out of a move to other clubs, Levy will deal with us rather than lose £70m.
Unfortunately, I think Eriksen will have loads of other clubs wanting his signature so Levy won't have to sell to us.
Not sure for others but since you go Pochettino, we have defeated City away twice, Liverpool away twice, Arsenal away twice, Spurs away once, while also having a few draws. This takes considerations only the league matches (we have defeated Arsenal away in the cup, City away in Carling cup, and well you in Wembley last season). Bear in mind, we were supposed to be shit during those years.
Finish top four because being in Europe provides a very significant boost in income .. which for a club of our size/revenue which is funding a very expensive new stadium is vital. I don't get what is so hard to grasp about this for United fans, if we miss out on Europe we'll probably have to sell players. We're already not buying anybody, clearly we are financially struggling to compete despite being in Europe for the last couple of seasons. I don't like or agree with it (I think it's a total waste of a great generation of players) but those are the facts. We're not Manchester United, we can't sell pot noodle sponsors for hundreds of millions.
The whole 'if you win a league cup you'll go on to better things' idea isn't really true, is it? City would have won the league without winning the league cup last season. Top sides don't need to win the league cup to go on and win bigger trophies. Plenty of clubs have won domestic cups (arsenal, liverpool etc) and then not gone on to bigger or better things.
I'm not happy with Pochettino's comments (tbh I wish he'd just shut up) but it's pretty clear he's just trying to excuse the exit, he does care and would want to win a trophy, hence why we've been putting out strong teams in cups all season long. Yesterday we rested a few players because we have an injury crisis and can't afford even one more injured player, but mostly we've put out decent sides in the league/FA cup.
Yes but he charged them 50 odd million for a right back they could immediately replace with Trippier, just imagine what he'd ask for Eriksen who'd be irreplaceable for them, and definitely a step back for them in general. The only thing making this plausible is that he's going into the last year of his contract and he doesn't seem to be in a hurry to extend.
Eriksen is great, but we have a superior player who plays in that position. Not sure how balanced a midfield of him and Pogba would be. I guess that for it to work, they would need to have a Kante/Gattuso on their peak who ran 15km per game.
Well yeah, if you're the only club that were in for them we would have to sell to you, but that's not really relevant since that's never going to happen.
My point is you would be bottom of the list. He would find any other alternative, and of course a player like Eriksen will have plenty of suitors and I doubt he's going to push only for a move to United.
If the deal makes sense for both parties, they will do business. "Levy doesn't like United" and all that is just empty talk. ManUtd and Arsenal had such a heated rivalry, didn't stop doing business with each other. Spurs and ManUtd have nothing between them.
Agree with all that, but still money talk, especially for Levy. Depends on who is interested in Eriksen, but if he enters the last year of his contract and doesn't want to sign he would probably want to move him this Summer and not lose him on free next year..