A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[Cloud7]

No. But bantz.

The inportance of the FA Cup or Carling Cup changes depending on who you are talking about. For Pochettino it's supposed to be this golden stamp of quality (and conveniently so). For Wenger, Mourinho, Conte... The goalposts get changed.

United fans speak of the Carling Cup win in 2006 that supposedly set up the next few years, but for what other team has that happened?

Agreed. The Carabao cup and FA cup are non entities in the long term progression of a club. All those FA cup wins didn’t spur Arsenal and Wenger onto anything better, nor did the FA cup under Vangle or the league cup we won under Jose. Chelsea aren’t exactly flying after winning it last season. What did those cups set us up for?

The small cups are shiny to look at and give a small feeling of satisfaction, but for the top clubs they’re pretty low on the order of importance. For clubs like Wigan when they won it obviously that’s very different, but as a top club if we have to prioritize, I much rather see United in the top 4, playing among the best teams in the world, than winning an FA cup and playing Europa league the next season. Whether he should be prioritizing one competition or another at Spurs is the only debatable point for me, but it’s not outlandish to prefer finishing in the CL spot to winning a small trophy, in spite of the fact that top 4 isn’t an actual trophy.

That’s just my two cents, but it may be influenced by the fact that I don’t really hold the league cups in very high regard.

 

[el3mel]

Agreed. The Carabao cup and FA cup are non entities in the long term progression of a club. All those FA cup wins didn’t spur Arsenal and Wenger onto anything better, nor did the FA cup under Vangle or the league cup we won under Jose. Chelsea aren’t exactly flying after winning it last season. What did those cups set us up for?

The small cups are shiny to look at and give a small feeling of satisfaction, but for the top clubs they’re pretty low on the order of importance. For clubs like Wigan when they won it obviously that’s very different, but as a top club if we have to prioritize, I much rather see United in the top 4, playing among the best teams in the world, than winning an FA cup and playing Europa league the next season. Whether he should be prioritizing one competition or another at Spurs is the only debatable point for me, but it’s not outlandish to prefer finishing in the CL spot to winning a small trophy, in spite of the fact that top 4 isn’t an actual trophy.

That’s just my two cents, but it may be influenced by the fact that I don’t really hold the league cups in very high regard.

Wenger was also getting top 4 regularly year in year out for Arsenal without much spending. Was that considered progress for them or everyone was mocking the shite out of him ?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Wow...

He looks like someone who knows they blew the audition.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Agreed. The Carabao cup and FA cup are non entities in the long term progression of a club. All those FA cup wins didn’t spur Arsenal and Wenger onto anything better, nor did the FA cup under Vangle or the league cup we won under Jose. Chelsea aren’t exactly flying after winning it last season. What did those cups set us up for?

The small cups are shiny to look at and give a small feeling of satisfaction, but for the top clubs they’re pretty low on the order of importance. For clubs like Wigan when they won it obviously that’s very different, but as a top club if we have to prioritize, I much rather see United in the top 4, playing among the best teams in the world, than winning an FA cup and playing Europa league the next season. Whether he should be prioritizing one competition or another at Spurs is the only debatable point for me, but it’s not outlandish to prefer finishing in the CL spot to winning a small trophy, in spite of the fact that top 4 isn’t an actual trophy.

That’s just my two cents, but it may be influenced by the fact that I don’t really hold the league cups in very high regard.

And many here will criticize Klopp and Poch for not winning domestic cups and give Pep zero credit if he wins another one. Here it is only a stick to beat certain managers.

 

[3KDré]

Wow...

Just put me off.

 

[VorZakone]

State of that first post. How can someone contradict himself that much in one sentence ? "Winning trophies is a fleeting moment, we need to get top 4 to generate more income to get these fleeting moments in the future"

His point was probably that it's not worth losing out on top 4 in order to win a cup. Consistent CL football would allow them to generate more money and attract better players.

 

[el3mel]

His point was probably that it's not worth losing out on top 4 in order to win a cup. Consistent CL football would allow them to generate more money and attract better players.

At which point exactly does it becomes the time to switch from top 4 to winning actual things ? They have been finishing in top 4 for 3 years now and this 4th one with still nothing to show for it regarding winning something.

His point doesn't make sense, considering with this money they end up not buying anyone in last summer anyway. It doesn't look like Levy is interested in investing in the team as long as it's content with top 4.

 

[NinjaZombie]

"Look what he's done with limited resources, I'd like to see what he can do at United.'

I'm pretty sure some of us were saying this when Moyes took over.

Makes you think

 

[Cloud7]

Wenger was also getting top 4 regularly year in year out for Arsenal without much spending. Was that considered progress for them or everyone was mocking the shite out of him ?

Arsenal are a traditional top 4 club, they’re expected to be there. Prior to the last few years, Spurs have never been expected to be there. At the time unless I’m mistaken Arsenal’s expenditure and wage bill was in line with a top 4 club, so Wenger wasn’t exactly overachieving, even if his squads were filled with a load of dross. He was mocked because of how exceptional he was in the early parts of his career relative to the shadow of his former self that he became later on.

It’s also worth mentioning that while many jokes were made about Wenger, he was still the second best manager in England over the past twenty years, and with the right setup now he could still be a very good manager, even if he waned from his initial period. I wouldn’t be in a rush to say that Poch is better than him.

 

[DBT85]

Don't forget to change your votes in the poll!

 

[Skills]

His point was probably that it's not worth losing out on top 4 in order to win a cup. Consistent CL football would allow them to generate more money and attract better players.

Signed feck all this summer.

 

[el3mel]

Arsenal are a traditional top 4 club, they’re expected to be there. Prior to the last few years, Spurs have never been expected to be there. At the time unless I’m mistaken Arsenal’s expenditure and wage bill was in line with a top 4 club, so Wenger wasn’t exactly overachieving, even if his squads were filled with a load of dross. He was mocked because of how exceptional he was in the early parts of his career relative to the shadow of his former self that he became later on.

It’s also worth mentioning that while many jokes were made about Wenger, he was still the second best manager in England over the past twenty years, and with the right setup now he could still be a very good manager, even if he waned from his initial period. I wouldn’t be in a rush to say that Poch is better than him.

You said in your post you'll prefer to see United finishing 4th regularly instead of winning Fa Cup and finishing outside top 4. Well guess what, that's exactly what Arsenal have been doing under Wenger and he was mocked by everyone including us for not being good enough, and Arsenal fans were slaughtering him for that.

Being in top 4 regularly was the thing that kept Wenger in job not the Fa Cup, and it led to Arsenal declining year after year because just finishing in top 4 regularly is zero progress if you end next season crushing out of it early and sacrificing every competition to get top 4 to get CL again to crush out of it and so on.

 

[VorZakone]

Signed feck all this summer.

True, their priority is likely their new stadium.

 

[Cheesy]

Wenger was also getting top 4 regularly year in year out for Arsenal without much spending. Was that considered progress for them or everyone was mocking the shite out of him ?

Wenger's Arsenal were consistently among the four richest clubs in the league until City entered the fray and even afterwards had more than enough resources to comfortably compete for the top four, with a look to pushing for more. Pochettino's Spurs don't quite have the same resources - on finances alone they should be languishing in 6th, comfortably behind the other five big sides. Pochettino consistently delivering top four for them is clearly more impressive than Wenger doing so with Arsenal.

 

[Cheesy]

You said in your post you'll prefer to see United finishing 4th regularly instead of winning Fa Cup and finishing outside top 4. Well guess what, that's exactly what Arsenal have been doing under Wenger and he was mocked by everyone including us for not being good enough, and Arsenal fans were slaughtering him for that.

Being in top 4 regularly was the thing that kept Wenger in job not the Fa Cup, and it led to Arsenal declining year after year because just finishing in top 4 regularly is zero progress if you end next season crushing out of it early and sacrificing every competition to get top 4 to get CL again to crush out of it and so on.

Wenger's previous success was what kept in the job for so long, with the assumption being for a number of years that he was slowly building another great side based around a lot of the clubs younger players. Such patience and trust probably wouldn't have been given to him had he not won three titles with them. Indeed even in 2017 when they fell out of the top four he stayed on - it was only after their disastrous 17-18 season they were finally willing to get rid. Any other manager wouldn't have lasted so long.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

No. But bantz.

The inportance of the FA Cup or Carling Cup changes depending on who you are talking about. For Pochettino it's supposed to be this golden stamp of quality (and conveniently so). For Wenger, Mourinho, Conte... The goalposts get changed.

United fans speak of the Carling Cup win in 2006 that supposedly set up the next few years, but for what other team has that happened?

City and Chelsea did the League Cup/PL double in 13/14 and 14/15 respectively.

I think there’s something to the idea that winning a trophy with a good but inexperienced squad can serve as a springboard to bigger and better thing, but the most important thing is the squad must be good enough first. Spurs while having a good first 11 never had the luxury of a strong bench, let alone 2nd team, however finishing 3rd in the season Leicester won the league was definitely a failure.

 

[el3mel]

Wenger's Arsenal were consistently among the four richest clubs in the league until City entered the fray and even afterwards had more than enough resources to comfortably compete for the top four, with a look to pushing for more. Pochettino's Spurs don't quite have the same resources - on finances alone they should be languishing in 6th, comfortably behind the other five big sides. Pochettino consistently delivering top four for them is clearly more impressive than Wenger doing so with Arsenal.

You forgot when they were moving from their old stadium to Emirates and their spending took a major hit thanks to this ? but Wenger kept them finishing in top 4 regularly anyway and was mocked for this. Even after they finishing moving to their new stadium their summer budget was disgraceful compared to other top club. They had one full summer when they bought only Cech for 10m. Still Wenger was finishing top 4 regularly and still everyone was mocking the shite out of him, not saying he's progressing the club or keeping them steady despite no spending.

 

[Fortitude]

The rest of the posts are Spurs fans arguing and threatening to fight each other outside the Holiday Inn near Wembley on Wednesday at 18:00.

Agreed. The Carabao cup and FA cup are non entities in the long term progression of a club. All those FA cup wins didn’t spur Arsenal and Wenger onto anything better, nor did the FA cup under Vangle or the league cup we won under Jose. Chelsea aren’t exactly flying after winning it last season. What did those cups set us up for?

The small cups are shiny to look at and give a small feeling of satisfaction, but for the top clubs they’re pretty low on the order of importance. For clubs like Wigan when they won it obviously that’s very different, but as a top club if we have to prioritize, I much rather see United in the top 4, playing among the best teams in the world, than winning an FA cup and playing Europa league the next season. Whether he should be prioritizing one competition or another at Spurs is the only debatable point for me, but it’s not outlandish to prefer finishing in the CL spot to winning a small trophy, in spite of the fact that top 4 isn’t an actual trophy.

That’s just my two cents, but it may be influenced by the fact that I don’t really hold the league cups in very high regard.

You make the distinction between Spurs and United yourself - for us, the FA Cup is more throwaway than it is for them, and even then, it's a nice trophy to win when you've not been close to the league for a while!

Spurs are risking a state of perpetual nothingness doing what they're doing. And the irony is it could be the prompt for their best players to seek employment at bigger clubs who compete on all fronts and give them the chance to fill their own trophy cabinets with something.

Carling

2008 Tottenham Hotspur
2009 Manchester United
2010 Manchester United
2011 Birmingham City
2012 Liverpool
2013 Swansea City
2014 Manchester City
2015 Chelsea
2016 Manchester City
2017 Manchester United
2018 Manchester City

FA

2007–08 Portsmouth
2008–09 Chelsea
2009–10 Chelsea
2010–11 Manchester City
2011–12 Chelsea
2012–13 Wigan Athletic
2013–14 Arsenal
2014–15 Arsenal
2015–16 Manchester United
2016–17 Arsenal
2017–18 Chelsea

Both cups look like priorities for the top clubs with two 'outliers' each in over a decade. Spurs aren't the equal of any of those top clubs, it's ridiculous for them to not be pursuing these trophies whilst being a speck of dust relative to honours won. Is it unfair to say they need these trophies more than anyone else in the top 6 who is competing for them?

 

[Canagel]

Wenger's Arsenal were consistently among the four richest clubs in the league until City entered the fray and even afterwards had more than enough resources to comfortably compete for the top four, with a look to pushing for more. Pochettino's Spurs don't quite have the same resources - on finances alone they should be languishing in 6th, comfortably behind the other five big sides. Pochettino consistently delivering top four for them is clearly more impressive than Wenger doing so with Arsenal.

Wenger was selling his best players year after year. Whilst Spurs have kept their group and been stable.

 

[JSArsenal]

Forget about using domestic trophies as a catalyst. Winning those 3 FA Cups are some of my favourite memories as an Arsenal fan.

There isn't an Arsenal fan alive that will tell you us beating West Brom or Newcastle on the last day to finish 4th means more to them than Ramsey's winner against Chelsea or his winner against Hull.

As for this current conversation about Wenger being mocked. Wenger was mocked for two reasons:

1. For not living up to the standards he himself set during the first part of his reign
2. Because Arsenal were expected to be at the top competing for and winning league titles. 4th was viewed as a failure, not an achievement

Number 2 lacks the context of the new stadium and the financial restrictions to go along with it, which are still plaguing us today as seen by the "only loan deals" thing we have going on right now.

Spurs on the other hand, no one expects them to do any better, so finishing in the top 4 is seen as a great achievement. Although I question this mentality because at the one hand everyone hypes up Spurs for having this absolutely amazing team, full of world class players and build them up as title challengers, as you would any top club. Yet at the same time they aren't slammed for not winning trophies like the other teams are.

EDIT:

I will say this, Wenger's reign would be viewed very differently if we had won the CL final in 2006 and stayed the course in the league in 2008. We were pretty close to some big trophies during the drought.

 

[el3mel]

Wenger's previous success was what kept in the job for so long, with the assumption being for a number of years that he was slowly building another great side based around a lot of the clubs younger players. Such patience and trust probably wouldn't have been given to him had he not won three titles with them. Indeed even in 2017 when they fell out of the top four he stayed on - it was only after their disastrous 17-18 season they were finally willing to get rid. Any other manager wouldn't have lasted so long.

The fact that he kept finishing regularly in top 4 year after year without much spending despite going from 2005 to 2014 without winning any trophy is what kept him in the job on the hope he's building something like you said but we all know where it went out for him which is what I'm mentioning regarding Poch. Finishing top 4 regularly has never been considered a progress till people started defending Poch. It was actually something to mock Wenger for.

 

[Blatzo]

I'm convinced Poch would be a bad appointment for United.

Everything about what he's done SCREAMS big fish in a small pond; and we've the biggest pond in Britain.

Somebody a few posts ago suggested there are parallels to David Moyes and I can see that too. Manchester United isn't about doing well with what you've got. Manchester United is about excellence. Period.

There's nowhere to hide and there are no excuses. The hot seat at Old Trafford demands not just success but dominance.

Pochettino plays second fiddle masterfully but I fear the lead role might not be for him. I hope that I'll be quoted for the rest of forever should I prove to be embarrassingly wrong.

 

[Cheesy]

You forgot when they were moving from their old stadium to Emirates and their spending took a major hit thanks to this ? but Wenger kept them finishing in top 4 regularly anyway and was mocked for this. Even after they finishing moving to their new stadium their summer budget was disgraceful compared to other top club. They had one full summer when they bought only Cech for 10m. Still Wenger was finishing top 4 regularly and still everyone was mocking the shite out of him, not saying he's progressing the club or keeping them steady despite no spending.

Even when moving to their new stadium Arsenal were still (comparatively speaking) in a better position to buy players than Spurs are now for the most part. They were generally always either the fourth/fifth richest team in the league, and if you classed them as being behind Liverpool in that regard then they were handed an inherent advantage insofar as Liverpool basically became a glorified mid-table side with one good season in 13-14 in the middle of that. To not get top four would have been an immense failure for Wenger. To get top four is impressive for Pochettino's Spurs since there are five teams with considerably more resources than them. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand or grasp.

 

[Cloud7]

You said in your post you'll prefer to see United finishing 4th regularly instead of winning Fa Cup and finishing outside top 4. Well guess what, that's exactly what Arsenal have been doing under Wenger and he was mocked by everyone including us for not being good enough, and Arsenal fans were slaughtering him for that.

Being in top 4 regularly was the thing that kept Wenger in job not the Fa Cup, and it led to Arsenal declining year after year because just finishing in top 4 regularly is zero progress if you end next season crushing out of it early and sacrificing every competition to get top 4 to get CL again to crush out of it and so on.

It was a hypothetical between the two, obviously at United neither of those two outcomes would be tolerated for long, just finishing in top 4 or just winning the FA cup, United have the resources to aim higher than that. Arsenal fans seemed very confused about what they wanted, so their slaughtering him isn’t much of a barometer of anything. They were all adamant that it was Wenger refusing to invest money in the team, only for Emery to come out now and say that the club is broke.

Obviously latter day Wenger’s performances at Arsenal wouldn’t be tolerated for as long at United. Two seasons, three maybe, but sooner or later it wouldn’t be enough, again because the expectations at our club are higher.

This is all a massive tangent taking away from my point that winning an FA cup doesn’t do much in terms of propelling a club to bigger and better things.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Both cups look like priorities for the top clubs with two 'outliers' each in over a decade. Spurs aren't the equal of any of those top clubs, it's ridiculous for them to not be pursuing these trophies whilst being a speck of dust relative to honours won. Is it unfair to say they need these trophies more than anyone else in the top 6 who is competing for them?

But, the top clubs that have won it have generally rotated just as much as Spurs did today. The big difference they usually had the depth to rotate the squad and still beat almost anyone else.

 

[el3mel]

Even when moving to their new stadium Arsenal were still (comparatively speaking) in a better position to buy players than Spurs are now for the most part. They were generally always either the fourth/fifth richest team in the league, and if you classed them as being behind Liverpool in that regard then they were handed an inherent advantage insofar as Liverpool basically became a glorified mid-table side with one good season in 13-14 in the middle of that. To not get top four would have been an immense failure for Wenger. To get top four is impressive for Pochettino's Spurs since there are five teams with considerably more resources than them. I'm not sure how that's hard to understand or grasp.

They were still not spending much which is the final outcome whether they were rich or not. The point is they weren't spending much but finishing top 4 regularly and were mocked. Whether they choose to not spend or not, it's something else.

 

[Cheesy]

The fact that he kept finishing regularly in top 4 year after year without much spending despite going from 2005 to 2014 without winning any trophy is what kept him in the job on the hope he's building something like you said but we all know where it went out for him which is what I'm mentioning regarding Poch. Finishing top 4 regularly has never been considered a progress till people started defending Poch. It was actually something to mock Wenger for.

Not really - there was a decent chance he'd have been sacked had it not been for his legendary status as a manager that he'd already asserted. They had several blown title challenges and dreadful spells of form where they basically collapsed that would've perhaps seen a manager with less of a reputation at the club out the door. Pochettino's progress with Spurs had largely come insofar as until last season they'd been improving each year in their league performances, finishing 2nd in 16-17 - and even last year was a slight regression domestically as opposed to a complete collapse. That's where the difference lies.

 

[el3mel]

It was a hypothetical between the two, obviously at United neither of those two outcomes would be tolerated for long, just finishing in top 4 or just winning the FA cup, United have the resources to aim higher than that. Arsenal fans seemed very confused about what they wanted, so their slaughtering him isn’t much of a barometer of anything. They were all adamant that it was Wenger refusing to invest money in the team, only for Emery to come out now and say that the club is broke.

Obviously latter day Wenger’s performances at Arsenal wouldn’t be tolerated for as long at United. Two seasons, three maybe, but sooner or later it wouldn’t be enough, again because the expectations at our club are higher.

This is all a massive tangent taking away from my point that winning an FA cup doesn’t do much in terms of propelling a club to bigger and better things.

The point is you're separating both aspects as if to finish top 4 you need to sacrifice every other trophy if you're Spurs. That's not true at all. There's nothing preventing Spurs from doing both. It's just 2 competitions.

 

[VorZakone]

It's nice that fans enjoy an occasional cup win but I reckon the clubs themselves will always prioritize CL qualification.

 

[Cloud7]

You make the distinction between Spurs and United yourself - for us, the FA Cup is more throwaway than it is for them, and even then, it's a nice trophy to win when you've not been close to the league for a while!

Well that’s the thing, Spurs are in an awkward middle ground between the two. Sure they haven’t won a trophy in a long time and winning one would be good, but on the other hand, they don’t finish in the CL spots and all of a sudden their best players look at leaving, they struggle to get decent reinforcements to come in etc.

Like I said, the only debate to be had here is if Spurs should be prioritizing one thing over another. Some may say they have the squad to compete on both fronts, others may say they don’t.

 

[Cheesy]

They were still not spending much which is the final outcome whether they were rich or not. The point is they weren't spending much but finishing top 4 regularly and were mocked. Whether they choose to not spend or not, it's something else.

They were spending enough and had enough financial firepower to be regarded as one of the top four clubs in the league in that regard. That's not the case for Spurs, who rank sixth at best in this regard. Therefore the fact they've consistently finished in the top three in recent seasons is inherently more impressive.

 

[Cheesy]

It's nice that fans enjoy an occasional cup win but I reckon the clubs themselves will always prioritize CL qualification.

I think for a fan a cup win is arguably more valuable and memorable, but insofar as evaluating a manager goes it's arguably not the best criteria when it comes to judging them. Plenty of managers who performed poorly in the league have managed to win cups in recent years.

 

[Cloud7]

The point is you're separating both aspects as if to finish top 4 you need to sacrifice every other trophy if you're Spurs. That's not true at all. There's nothing preventing Spurs from doing both. It's just 2 competitions.

That was the crux of my initial post. I said that that’s the only debate to be had here, if Spurs actually need to prioritize one competition or not.

Some may say that they have the squad to go all out in both competitions, while others may say that the lack of investment coupled with injuries means that their squad isn’t capable of going all out in the league cup as well as the league/CL.

You obviously think it’s the former, but there are many in here who think it’s the latter.

 

[el3mel]

Not really - there was a decent chance he'd have been sacked had it not been for his legendary status as a manager that he'd already asserted. They had several blown title challenges and dreadful spells of form where they basically collapsed that would've perhaps seen a manager with less of a reputation at the club out the door. Pochettino's progress with Spurs had largely come insofar as until last season they'd been improving each year in their league performances, finishing 2nd in 16-17 - and even last year was a slight regression domestically as opposed to a complete collapse. That's where the difference lies.

Arsenal had shown several times they were more than content with just finishing top 4 and getting CL regularly. They were never, ever in the previous years interested in building a title winning squad. They were content with top 4 and Wenger was a representative of this mentality and was providing it regularly, no reason to sack him.

They were spending enough and had enough financial firepower to be regarded as one of the top four clubs in the league in that regard. That's not the case for Spurs, who rank sixth at best in this regard. Therefore the fact they've consistently finished in the top three in recent seasons is inherently more impressive.

This Spurs side has already proven they're good enough for top 4 team. People treating them like they're underdogs. Their defense is great and their attack can go straight to any other big team. They have far more than enough to finish in top 4 hence Levy isn't decided to spend any more. Levy is basically acting like what Arsenal, being content by having a team finishing regularly in top 4 and not trying to push over it. Arsenal haven't spend any amount of money enough to challenge. They built a top 4 team and that's about it. The last summer under Poch, as I said it was similar to the summer when Arsenal spent only 10m on Cech.

The difference is one team was getting mocked to hell with this kind of mentality and another one is getting defended for.

 

[Cheesy]

Wenger was selling his best players year after year. Whilst Spurs have kept their group and been stable.

They've managed to keep their best players for now but they're perpetually in a fairly tenuous position in that regard, and probably won't be able to hold onto all of them in the long-term.

In fact our interest in Pochettino itself is probably a fairly good indicator of how they're fairly disadvantaged compared to the other big boys - when we sacked Mourinho we were languishing in 6th place, and Spurs still had faint hopes of a title challenge. Nevertheless there was/is an assumption that if we want Pochettino, we'll stand a good chance of getting him.

 

[Fortitude]

But, the top clubs that have won it have generally rotated just as much as Spurs did today. The big difference they usually had the depth to rotate the squad and still beat almost anyone else.

That's situational - the moment they met big guns, they showed how seriously they took the competition. If it wasn't a priority, they wouldn't do that. We've had some great [1st team] clashes in these cups when the right names have been drawn against us no matter the round. Do we really need to do that, or is there something that drives on both the club and the players to want to go out there and perform?

The league cup was 'Mickey Mouse' for a while, but that has not been the case for a long time now. Of course it doesn't take precedence over the league or CL, but it's rarely binned by any of the top clubs - clubs with far more prestige and 'right' to look down on them than Spurs do.

 

[Cheesy]

Arsenal had shown several times they were more than content with just finishing top 4 and getting CL regularly. They were never, ever in the previous years interested in building a title winning squad. They were content with top 4 and Wenger was a representative of this mentality and was providing it regularly, no reason to sack him.

This Spurs side has already proven they're good enough for top 4 team. People treating them like they're underdogs. Their defense is great and their attack can go straight to any other big team. They have far more than enough to finish in top 4 hence Levy isn't decided to spend any more. Levy is basically acting like what Arsenal, being content by having a team finishing regularly in top 4 and not trying to push over it. Arsenal haven't spend any amount of money enough to challenge. They built a top 4 team and that's about it. The last summer under Poch, as I said it was similar to the summer when Arsenal spent only 10m on Cech.

The difference is one team was getting mocked to hell with this kind of mentality and another one is getting defended for.

They were eventually, but I'd say that was only the assumption post-2010s - until then there was still the feeling that he was potentially building a great side and that they'd come to fruition eventually.

Spurs' squad is good enough for top four currently but that's because it was built by...Pochettino. When he went they had a fairly shite squad compared to what he's assembled since then. All without spending ridiculous sums of money.

Spurs also aren't getting mocked because they've generally done better than just finishing top four - Pochettino's only had one season (his first) where they didn't finish in the top three. By contrast Wenger's Arsenal were regularly finishing 4th, sometimes scraping their way to CL qualification against sides like Spurs and Villa with inferior resources.

 

[el3mel]

They were eventually, but I'd say that was only the assumption post-2010s - until then there was still the feeling that he was potentially building a great side and that they'd come to fruition eventually.

Spurs' squad is good enough for top four currently but that's because it was built by...Pochettino. When he went they had a fairly shite squad compared to what he's assembled since then. All without spending ridiculous sums of money.

I have never said Poch doesn't have any credit in Spurs job. He definitely did good enough to build the squad but he has shown his limitations as a manager for several times with several warnings that his mentality won't work in a big club with higher expectations. He'll get higher funds at big clubs but that will come with much higher expectation and higher pressure. Just finishing top 4 while sacrificing the cups won't keep him in the job for a long time in a big club, unlike Spurs.

The problem is he's not showing any ambition for winning them but instead undermining them for top 4. That's very, very Wenger esque.

 

[manutddjw]

They’re starting to sound so much like Arsenal but without the success to have the undeserved arrogance.

“Wait until the new stadium is built and we’ll be able to compete with anyone”. Sound familiar?

I also can’t believe the love Levy gets from so many. Again it’s very Arsenal like. No one is saying he has to invest hundreds of millions but the squad needed even modest investment in the summer and he did nothing. He gets praised as a genius for demanding ridiculous sums. That doesn’t make you a genius. What makes you the furthest thing from a genius is telling your manager a player is staying against their will and dragging a saga out all window for a few extra million. They get a few million extra yes, but clubs now know you’re desperate for a replacement and demand higher. It’s like when Arsenal were elated to keep taking City’s money for Adebayor, Nasri not realizing they kept building up this club who eventually would overtake them. But hey they didn’t sell to United so they were happy.

 

[Cheesy]

I have never said Poch doesn't have any credit in Spurs job. He definitely did good enough to build the squad but he has shown his limitations as a manager for several times with several warnings that his mentality won't work in a big club with higher expectations. He'll get higher funds at big clubs but that will come with much higher expectation and higher pressure. Just finishing top 4 while sacrificing the cups won't keep him in the job for a long time in a big club, unlike Spurs.

The problem is he's not showing any ambition for winning them but instead undermining them for top 4. That's very, very Wenger esque.

He isn't just finishing top four though - he's finished 3rd, 2nd, and 3rd respectively in their last three seasons, and currently they're on track for another 3rd place finish. Again, all that with the resources of a side who - by right - should be languishing somewhere around 6th at best, and who had a fairly shite squad when he first assumed the position. That's more impressive than Wenger's Arsenal regularly finishing 4th and often having to secure CL qualification late in the season.