A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Sky1981 said:
Eh?

Kick what down? There's no need to dish ole and the team in favor of that neighbour manager that isnt even ours

You do know this is a united forum, this poch love in is sickening.

I do like him, and just like many of us probably wanted him to manage us. But until that day come I'm not going to defend or support a tottenham manager.

It may not be his fault he lost but at the end of the day we won and that's what matter.
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You don't need to defend or support him, you just need to assess him fairly.

Saying we were lucky to win is not 'dishing Ole and the team'. We did our best, grabbed our chance and had the grub of the green, it happens, enjoy it, on another day we would have lost, feck know how many times I've watched United played teams off the park in OT only for their goalie to turn into superman. There's just no need to jump in gleefully and says he's a fraud off the back of a match where at worst Spurs were equal to us in performance (you didn't do this, I was making a broader point to other people).
 
crossy1686 said:
Very impressed with his ability to positviely affect the game and gain his side at least a draw?
It’s incredibly harsh that you’re judging Solskjaer on winning the CL only yet you’re contempt that Poch has never won a thing and that’s good enough for you. If you consider long term consistency to be long term choking then Poch is your man.
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I thought he did well tactically today, he made some good adjustments for the second half.

But I don’t want Poch at MUFC. As you point out, he is a consistent choker (that game against Juve comes to mind). But also, he might not adapt to life at Manchester, end up living in a hotel, and will never “get” the club. And if he does happen to overcome those natural obstacles and becomes a success at our club, RM will swoop and take him from our hands in no time.
 
Foxbatt said:
Poch has been with his team for years now. Ole has had only a few weeks. Spurs is Poch's team. United is Jose's team.
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True. If Jose hadn’t been such a moron we would even be thankful for helping form us a good/great team.
 
If we were losing under Jose the same way Totenham lost today, I would have still wanted Jose in. As Poch said in his presser, you win some and you lose some. We defended better and took our chances better. Still, he didn't get anything tactically wrong imo.
 
The United said:
A United manager should have some kind of edge like ' luck' to win games like last match imo. I am certainly not sure Poch has it in him.

Other than that, Poch would be a good fit. But, that thing is pretty important as well.
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Give him Manchester United transfer budget and I bet he's going to get infinitely luckier.
 
Yesterday was peak Spurs, looking good but achieving nothing. This is as good as it's ever going to get for them. Their top players will soon recognise this and move elsewhere to win trophies.
 
fallengt said:
Tottenham had 1.8 xG, United had 0.9

It's daft to say Ole had better game plan than Poch. It was expected De Gea could save all those shots but no manager tells his team to allow as many shots on goal as they can because "GK will stop them anyway".
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Spurs barely created chances in first 60 mins (they had 2 good ones in 45-60 mins), they didn't even have a shot on target in first half. Then it was natural for strong team especially at home to go all out attack, naturally we just dropped deep and relied on counters even more. When the score was 0-0, ManUtd created most of the good chances.
 
shamans said:
If we were losing under Jose the same way Totenham lost today, I would have still wanted Jose in. As Poch said in his presser, you win some and you lose some. We defended better and took our chances better. Still, he didn't get anything tactically wrong imo.
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Don’t think we defended better
 
antihenry said:
Give him Manchester United transfer budget and I bet he's going to get infinitely luckier.
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Maybe.

Watched game on NBC today and they made a good point after it kind of getting at what your getting at.

Today united brought on a 70m striker as a sub and a 20m full back and that’s without our half a million a week attacker. We also left a 50m midfielder in Fred and a 38m forward in mata on their arse for the entire game.

Spurs brought on a free transfer 33 year old striker when they were desperate for a goal. Their other players were a full back, center back and 2 kids I have never heard of.

The gulf in budget is massive and as much as Jose moaned about gulf to city, the gulf from spuds to us is even wider than that.

Give him United’s budget and I think his luck could change because simply he would have more options of quality.

I’m still not convinced he is de facto right man for us but he won’t be sticking around at spuds for much longer either when you see it on paper like that
 
manunited1919 said:
I thought he did well tactically today, he made some good adjustments for the second half.

But I don’t want Poch at MUFC. As you point out, he is a consistent choker (that game against Juve comes to mind). But also, he might not adapt to life at Manchester, end up living in a hotel, and will never “get” the club. And if he does happen to overcome those natural obstacles and becomes a success at our club, RM will swoop and take him from our hands in no time.
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Agreed, as long as the wheels don't fall off the Solskjaer train then he should be our next manager. Let Pochettino go to Madrid and we'll pick him up once they sack him and if Solskjaer can't maintain this next season. Win, win.
 
Spurs were unplayable yesterday. Only thing that stood between us and a tonking was DDG and their poor finishing
 
roonster09 said:
Spurs barely created chances in first 60 mins (they had 2 good ones in 45-60 mins), they didn't even have a shot on target in first half. Then it was natural for strong team especially at home to go all out attack, naturally we just dropped deep and relied on counters even more. When the score was 0-0, ManUtd created most of the good chances.
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The point is Poch adjusted and Ole didn't or he didn't react well to it, he gave them too much space on the left wing from 60 minutes onward.

But I don't blame Ole, United had limited options on the bench. Lukaku didn't nothing to hold on the ball, might be Peirera would help to keep the ball under pressure but he barely play at all, there was no straight answer

Overall both managers did well. 1-0 flattered us a little, Spur did play good football
 
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flappyjay said:
Yeah second half Poch adjusted his tactics and we had no way of stopping. Thankfully De Gea was on God mode
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fallengt said:
The point is Poch adjusted and Ole didn't or he didn't react well to it, he gave them too much space on the left wing from 60 minutes onward.

But I don't blame Ole, United had limited options on the bench. Lukaku didn't nothing to hold on the ball, might be Peirera would help to keep the ball under pressure but he barely play at all, there was no straight answer

Overall both managers did well. 1-0 flattered us a little, Spur did play good football
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Have to agree with this.
 
fellaini's barber said:
Spurs were unplayable yesterday. Only thing that stood between us and a tonking was DDG and their poor finishing
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Not really. We too could have had 1-2 from the 3 Pogba shots in 8 minute spell. Yes they finished poorly but we too could have made it lot more comfortable getting a 2nd and Spurs wouldn't have been able to get waves after waves attack then. These big games are usually about fine margins where United triumphed yesterday.
 
Green_Red said:
That was the first game we won in 7 attempts against spurs away, last time was 4th March 2012. It proves everything.
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Doesn’t matter whether it was the first time we had beaten spurs in 20 years. It’s one match - you don’t make decisions about the next manager based on one match. Anyone in the PL can beat anyone else if the circumstances are right.

I would love OGS to be the next Utd manager, but we have an opportunity to give him an extended audition - let’s do that, and make the decision after 20 games not 6.
 
fallengt said:
The point is Poch adjusted and Ole didn't or he didn't react well to it, he gave them too much space on the left wing from 60 minutes onward.

But I don't blame Ole, United had limited options on the bench. Lukaku didn't nothing to hold on the ball, might be Peirera would help to keep the ball under pressure but he barely play at all, there was no straight answer

Overall both managers did well. 1-0 flattered us a little, Spur did play good football
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Most teams would react defensively by nature against equally good opponent. If the situation is reversed it'll be us bombing forward with spurs defending and hoping to catch us by counter.
 
fallengt said:
Tottenham had 1.8 xG, United had 0.9

It's daft to say Ole had better game plan than Poch. It was expected De Gea could save all those shots but no manager tells his team to allow as many shots on goal as they can because "GK will stop them anyway".
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Exactly. If Spurs had won that game 3-1 no-one could have complained. Would be a massive mistake to make any long-term managerial decisions based on yesterday.
 
Everyone seems to be forgetting the saves Lloris made from Pogba in the second half.

It's as though Spurs were camped in our box for the whole 45 mins.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
It doesn't have more importance. It's hardly as if we dominated the first 60. It was and even game uptil then. Their chances in the last 30 are obviously inflated by us leading and them chasing, but I'm just acknowledging that it wasn't a game that definitively belonged to one team. The result belonged to us and Ole and that's fecking magnificent. But both teams did well.
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Well we did score once and could have scored another through Lingard, Martial and the three Pogba chances.
I think Spurs had two shots on target within the same period?
We were clearly the more dangerous side with our chances being better worked as well IMO.
We could easily have been 2 or 3 up and nobody could have complained. They couldn't cope with our front four at all.
Spurs had to change their shape for reason.
 
fallengt said:
The point is Poch adjusted and Ole didn't or he didn't react well to it, he gave them too much space on the left wing from 60 minutes onward.

But I don't blame Ole, United had limited options on the bench. Lukaku didn't nothing to hold on the ball, might be Peirera would help to keep the ball under pressure but he barely play at all, there was no straight answer

Overall both managers did well. 1-0 flattered us a little, Spur did play good football
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I agree, but I think fortune favoured the brave in that before Spurs adjusted second half Ole got some joy matching them in the middle, with Lingard playing more centrally and Rashford/Martial nice and wide to exploit the space behind the fullbacks (and ready to sniff out a mistake, cheers Tripps).

You can bet your bottom dollar we'd have had none of that from Jose, we'd have probably been pummelled for 90 minutes and come away with nothing. As it was we stood toe-to-toe with them away from home for the better part of the match then managed to hang on for the final 25/30 minutes.

On topic, where I definitely agree is that in isolation it's hard to draw too many conclusions on Poch from yesterday, apart from to say he did well to adjust and go at us second half with the fairly limited resources (injuries, shallow bench etc.) he had at his disposal.
 
cyberman said:
Well we did score once and could have scored another through Lingard, Martial and the three Pogba chances.
I think Spurs had two shots on target within the same period?
We were clearly the more dangerous side with our chances being better worked as well IMO.
We could easily have been 2 or 3 up and nobody could have complained. They couldn't cope with our front four at all.
Spurs had to change their shape for reason.
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That’s not true though. All Pogbas chances came later in the second half, after a lot of Spurs chances. Like that Kane chance that was compared to Rashfords goals. It came in the beginning of the second half. Also Spurs actually had the first big chance, with Winks getting completely free with only De Gea to beat but he fecked it up big time. That was the second biggest chance in the first half after Rashfords goal.

It would have been crazy undeserved if we would have been 2 or 3 up if you looked at all the chances and when they occured. It seems really weird to argue that we could easily have been up by that.

Also Spurs had to change their shape because Sissoko got injured and of course later when they needed a goal. But it really didn’t change much.

You need to watch the game again, your timings are completely off.

A draw would have been fair, but we won because we were more clinical and De Gea had a great game.
 
fallengt said:
Tottenham had 1.8 xG, United had 0.9

It's daft to say Ole had better game plan than Poch. It was expected De Gea could save all those shots but no manager tells his team to allow as many shots on goal as they can because "GK will stop them anyway".
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Spurs were at home, top 4 home sides generally have most of the play in their favour. Only one stat that counts though > goals scored.
 
Rednotdead said:
Everyone seems to be forgetting the saves Lloris made from Pogba in the second half.

It's as though Spurs were camped in our box for the whole 45 mins.
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We absolutely had chances to kill the game off at points. Poor passes, shots and decision making in the final third let us down. People are talking as though Spurs murdered us in the second half. They had a good spell but couldn't score, it's about what you would expect from a top 4 side at home.
 
crossy1686 said:
We absolutely had chances to kill the game off at points. Poor passes, shots and decision making in the final third let us down. People are talking as though Spurs murdered us in the second half. They had a good spell but couldn't score, it's about what you would expect from a top 4 side at home.
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I disagree. First half was even, with us being a bit better, but they definitely dominated us in the second half. They had more than a “good spell”. That implies a limited time. We created a few chances on counterattacks, but not many would have said it was unfair if they tied the game.

I know our standards have fallen a bit after Mourinho, but Spurs second half wss definitely better than what you can expect from a top team at home. If a team plays like Spurs second half against us then it’s definitely better than what you would expect.

I know for sure no one in the bar i was in expected Spurs to dominate us that much in the second half after our good first half.
 
cyberman said:
Well we did score once and could have scored another through Lingard, Martial and the three Pogba chances.
I think Spurs had two shots on target within the same period?
We were clearly the more dangerous side with our chances being better worked as well IMO.
We could easily have been 2 or 3 up and nobody could have complained. They couldn't cope with our front four at all.
Spurs had to change their shape for reason.
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No chance were we clearly more dangerous. It was a great contest where two teams played well. While we created good chances, Spurs had plenty of their own while chasing the game.
 
Redderp said:
That’s not true though. All Pogbas chances came later in the second half, after a lot of Spurs chances. Like that Kane chance that was compared to Rashfords goals. It came in the beginning of the second half. Also Spurs actually had the first big chance, with Winks getting completely free with only De Gea to beat but he fecked it up big time. That was the second biggest chance in the first half after Rashfords goal.

It would have been crazy undeserved if we would have been 2 or 3 up if you looked at all the chances and when they occured. It seems really weird to argue that we could easily have been up by that.

Also Spurs had to change their shape because Sissoko got injured and of course later when they needed a goal. But it really didn’t change much.

You need to watch the game again, your timings are completely off.

A draw would have been fair, but we won because we were more clinical and De Gea had a great game.
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There's also the chances Rashford had when he got though and scoffed the shot or when he needlessly ran offside when he had the run on the CB.
The chances were all ours, that's just a fact.
Spurs had one shot on target in the first half. One.
Think of a DDG save and its Kane angled shot is the first one you can think if and that's in the second half. Even then we took control for 15 minutes after that.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
No chance were we clearly more dangerous. It was a great contest where two teams played well. While we created good chances, Spurs had plenty of their own while chasing the game.
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Spurs had one shot on target in the first half.
 
Think both managers came out of yesterdays game with credit. Spurs were superb 2nd half. I expected them to tire after watching the Chelsea game mid-week but they just kept on coming.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
You don't need to defend or support him, you just need to assess him fairly.

Saying we were lucky to win is not 'dishing Ole and the team'. We did our best, grabbed our chance and had the grub of the green, it happens, enjoy it, on another day we would have lost, feck know how many times I've watched United played teams off the park in OT only for their goalie to turn into superman. There's just no need to jump in gleefully and says he's a fraud off the back of a match where at worst Spurs were equal to us in performance (you didn't do this, I was making a broader point to other people).
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Good post
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
You don't need to defend or support him, you just need to assess him fairly.

Saying we were lucky to win is not 'dishing Ole and the team'. We did our best, grabbed our chance and had the grub of the green, it happens, enjoy it, on another day we would have lost, feck know how many times I've watched United played teams off the park in OT only for their goalie to turn into superman. There's just no need to jump in gleefully and says he's a fraud off the back of a match where at worst Spurs were equal to us in performance (you didn't do this, I was making a broader point to other people).
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Pretty much this. Ole played long to their flanks to catch out their high full backs in the first half, and it worked. Credit to him.

But Poch changed things in the second half, and has us holding on for dear life. I don't think anyone would disagree when I say that if not for De Gea, they'd have won. Imagine Poch having Pogba in midfield instead of Winks, and De Gea in goal. He could do a far better job with our squad, too.

Still the man for me. We should do everything we can to get him.
 
cyberman said:
Spurs had one shot on target in the first half.
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A game is made up of two halves ? I'm not even sure what you're arguing about. Are you suggesting that was an easy game? That this was an even contest where both sides put up a good showing is a strange thing to protest against.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
You don't need to defend or support him, you just need to assess him fairly.

Saying we were lucky to win is not 'dishing Ole and the team'. We did our best, grabbed our chance and had the grub of the green, it happens, enjoy it, on another day we would have lost, feck know how many times I've watched United played teams off the park in OT only for their goalie to turn into superman. There's just no need to jump in gleefully and says he's a fraud off the back of a match where at worst Spurs were equal to us in performance (you didn't do this, I was making a broader point to other people).
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Bingo.

Some are allowing their dislike for the hype surrounding Pochettino, or Pochettino himself, to cloud their judgment and analysis of events.

In fact, the bigger question mark you may pose is why Spurs don't beat their top 4 rivals more often (possibly factually correct) rather than claiming they were outplayed by us last night (definitely factually incorrect).
 
cyberman said:
There's also the chances Rashford had when he got though and scoffed the shot or when he needlessly ran offside when he had the run on the CB.
The chances were all ours, that's just a fact.
Spurs had one shot on target in the first half. One.
Think of a DDG save and its Kane angled shot is the first one you can think if and that's in the second half. Even then we took control for 15 minutes after that.
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Harry Winks was 1v1 in the first 10 minutes. Doesn't count as a shot on target since he fecked up.
 
The sulky one. Just listened to Poch’s post-match presser. He sounded like all those long forgotten managers who thought they got robbed by Fergie. Ole did a job on him and it was a huge psychological hit. Like his hero, Poch resorted to references about the game at OT, his years at Spurs and our resources. He faces a big job keeping Spurs in the top 4 after defeats by Wolves and us.
 
Cockney Phil said:
The sulky one. Just listened to Poch’s post-match presser. He sounded like all those long forgotten managers who thought they got robbed by Fergie. Ole did a job on him and it was a huge psychological hit. Like his hero, Poch resorted to references about the game at OT, his years at Spurs and our resources. He faces a big job keeping Spurs in the top 4 after defeats by Wolves and us.
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How does he face a job keeping us top 4?
 
The only thing Pochettino did wrong was IMO not starting Sanchez to counter the threat United possessed on the break. He reacted very well to how the game was going, it's not the managers fault when Alli and Kane are through on goal and stick it straight at De Gea, or when Llorente and Alli have space in the box but do the exact same.

Managers can only do so much, they can't get on the pitch and finish for their team. He had his team fully motivated and all over United in the second half, carving out chance after chance. Our defeat was down to the failings of our players in front of goal, no more and no less. On another day he's getting serious credit for turning around the performance despite an injury to one of our most in form players (Sissoko), but that's football.
 
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