Let's see how MP does with Kane's injury and Son's absence. If he beats BVB, or wins Carling, or keeps top 3, I'd consider him ready for the OT challenge. I'd like to see if he can win when the chips are down big time.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
- Start date
feck that Levy cnut.
Spurs league standings last 10 years.
2009 - 8
2010 - 4
2011 - 5
2012 - 4
2013 - 5
2014 - 6
2015 - 5
2016 - 3
2017 - 2
2018 - 3
(in bold, Spurs under MP).
It's clear they have taken a step or two forward in league standings. Whether it's due to MP's brilliance or United's and Arsenal's struggles remains to be seen (maybe a bot of both)
I still think for the money we'd have to pay and hoops we'd have to jump through to get Pochettino, it wouldn't be worth it.
If this even happens, there will be immediate high pressure and sky high expectations asked, because we'd probably pay the world record for a manager
With Jardim still a free agent, I'd have OGS and Jardim up as my top two candidates. We could hope that OGS is our Guardiola or Zidane, or we go for Jardim who could be our own Klopp or our own Poch without having to pay eight figures out.
If this even happens, there will be immediate high pressure and sky high expectations asked, because we'd probably pay the world record for a manager
With Jardim still a free agent, I'd have OGS and Jardim up as my top two candidates. We could hope that OGS is our Guardiola or Zidane, or we go for Jardim who could be our own Klopp or our own Poch without having to pay eight figures out.
Yeah, that is bullshit. Really think about it, Pochettino is key here, not Levy. If he wants to leave, there is nothing Levy can do about it. It's never a good thing to keep a manager against his will(ask Watford). Levy is gonna risk having a disastrous season if he does that. And I'm not talking about Pochettino deliberately sabotage them. As soon as there is a blip, people will ask questions, doubt will spead all around the club. The players will turn against him, and he will get sacked eventually. Therefore, when he says he wants to leave, it's only a matter of where.
By the way, if we want to get Poch, we only need to buy out his contract. The new guy will bring in his own guys. That £140m is crazy talk.
People seriously using Leicester 15/16 as some kind of standard or benchmark? Oh boy...
Mental, isn't it? A once in a generation achievement and that's now being used against Pochettino.
Sorry but that is ridiculous.
All poch needs to do is tell Levy he wants to leave. Levy is not not going to keep a disgruntled manager in charge of his club now is he?
Don’t let logic get in the way now...
Coincidently the year Harry Kane announced himself they did better in the league from that point on. It's almost as if having a 30 goal a season striker in your reserves is worth a couple of places in the league. Something Levy definitely wouldn't fork out the cash for in any market.
If I was Poch I would stay put, he's considered a Messiah and doesn't have to win anything. Will get even more respect if he stays because he can say he's turned down RM and United to see the project through and then, when inevitably he doesn't get the transfer budget he thinks he will, he can leave and the supporters won't hold it against him.
I think the biggest issue for Tottenham is that there seems to be so much riding on this idea of 'once we've moved into the new stadium' everything will be amazing and they'll be able to compete financially with the other huge PL clubs. I think reality will be hard. Spurs are more in debt than United now, which is mad considering the difference in size of the clubs (not an argument about 'big' club 'small' club just a fact that United are a commercial behemoth), and the unseen issue will be the players who have waited patiently for a while, expecting their salaries to become competitive with other top 4 clubs won't all be kept happy. Lingard reportedly earns as much as Kane to give you an idea of the disparity.
So you have debt + interest to pay off, a manager expecting a huge transfer kitty and half the squad probably wanting to double their salaries (at least)... Kane is now out until March & Son is off to Asia, it seems unthinkable but top 4 definitely isn't guaranteed and without CL football it might be a very worrying summer if a few of them want out.
I think the biggest issue for Tottenham is that there seems to be so much riding on this idea of 'once we've moved into the new stadium' everything will be amazing and they'll be able to compete financially with the other huge PL clubs. I think reality will be hard. Spurs are more in debt than United now, which is mad considering the difference in size of the clubs (not an argument about 'big' club 'small' club just a fact that United are a commercial behemoth), and the unseen issue will be the players who have waited patiently for a while, expecting their salaries to become competitive with other top 4 clubs won't all be kept happy. Lingard reportedly earns as much as Kane to give you an idea of the disparity.
So you have debt + interest to pay off, a manager expecting a huge transfer kitty and half the squad probably wanting to double their salaries (at least)... Kane is now out until March & Son is off to Asia, it seems unthinkable but top 4 definitely isn't guaranteed and without CL football it might be a very worrying summer if a few of them want out.
Read the darn post, "Levy's opening ask..." It's his opening salvo in the negotiation.
You think Levy is going to let Poch go easily, just because Poch asks nicely? There is not a snowball's chance in Hell of that happening.
Poch has just signed a five year contract - if you were Levy would you just tear it up if it was paid off? That would be truly ridiculous.
Dude, he's not a fecking asset like a player whose transfer is regulated by FIFA and whose cost is reported in the balance sheet. He's an employee (albeit a pretty fecking important one), just like the Commercial Director, Head of Scouting, physio etc. If an employee wants to leave, they will leave, your chairman has no recourse if MP walked out of there. Maybe impose a garden leave that's the extent of what Levy can do.
Like I said in a previous post, if Poch informs Levy of his desire to leave the club, there is absolutely nothing Levy can do to prevent it from happening. United need only buy out the remainder of Poch's contract, which is somewhere in the region of £35 million by all accounts, plus chuck another £20 million on top to act as a sweetener and that, as they say, will be that.
They did however have two world class players in the period prior to Poch in Bale and Modric.
Would anyone really prefer Pochettino to Klopp?
Is football that Tribal now?
Or do people really believe that Poch + £ beats Klopp?
If you’re going to poach, take the best.
Is football that Tribal now?
Or do people really believe that Poch + £ beats Klopp?
If you’re going to poach, take the best.
Imagine the uproar on Merseyside if Klopp just upped roots and joined United.
Everyone agrees he’s the better manager though, right?
Long term, maybe Poch is better. But United fans couldn’t laud it over Liverpool fans until the guy actually did something.
He’s done NOTHING so far.
I don't know if Klopp is the better manager but he has certainly spent a great deal more than Poch.
Neither of them has won anything for their clubs.
Well when you consider the amount Klopp has spent compared to Poch there is a clear reason to think Poch is the better manager.
I'd love to see how Pochettino would be doing if he was able to go out and spend 75 mill on a CB, 70m on a keeper, and well over a hundred on midfield reinforcements.
We’re not honestly going to compare their levels?
Really?
One has won a major league title and managed 2 sides to 2 major European finals and a second tier European final.
The other has pootled around with a great squad and won nothing.
Poch is not special.
He may be a few years short of being great (I think so). But he’s not special yet.
Klopp is miles ahead of Pochettino right now.
Do you truly believe that Klopp has a better team?
(Freely admit he may marginally have the better squad)
Loris is a £60m goalkeeper
Toby & Verts are £60m centre halves
Alli is a £100m footballer
Spurs have generally had a better squad.
I’m with you in the fact that Poch + cash MAY trump Klopp. But Klopp is a top manager.
You can argue it both ways. Fact is the Spurs team Poch inherited wasn't any good either.
Not really mate.
Poch has had the better team for 3 years.
(Again, squad depth acknowledged elsewhere)
Yes?
Alisson, TAA, VVD, Vertonghen, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Fabinho, Eriksen, Salah, Kane, Son would be my combined XI and I'm a Spurs fan. They're far stronger defensively now than we are with Robertson, VDV and Alisson clearly better than any of what we have in their positions, neither of us are great in midfield but with Dembele gone we have nobody who makes it (aside from an in form Sissoko) and Salah is probably the best player in either side, though I'd run it close with Kane.
And yes, they clearly have a significantly better overall squad too, which makes a big difference.
What’s that got to do with the price of eggs?
Then you look at the fact that players like Eriksen and Son went up a level under Poch. Alli was signed from a league 1 side. Players like Walker improved and earned a move away. Poch then made good use of Trippier as a result. Rose also went up a level under Poch before declining again with injuries. There are a lot of examples.
Alison
Trippier (by a distance)
VVD
(Every centre back you have)
(Both of your left backs)
[Insert 2 man mystery toss up midfield]
Alli
Firminho
Eriksen
Salah
Kane
That’s reality. Salah is not as good as Eriksen to a neutral.
Lloris is a good keeper but he's looked far from a 60m keeper this season and last, and he's always been a tad dodgy. Huge fan in the past but Alisson is quite clearly ahead now.
Alli is a 100m talent, but he's not a 100m footballer yet.
Pochettino has a very good starting XI and on our day we can beat anybody, but across a season the squad has deficiencies. We've been running with a Sissoko/Winks midfield for a while now, Pochettino has elevated lots of players at the club and whilst Klopp has done the same, he's also had the luxury of being able to go out in to the market and hand pick who he likes, with money seemingly not much of an issue. We finished ahead of Liverpool last season, but then they've gone and spent insane amount in the transfer window, and boom Klopp is competing.
Pochettino can't be judged on the same level unless he gets the same backing.
You can praise him for that.
OR you can praise Klopp for TAA, Robertson, Salah, Firminho, etc. none of whom have looked this good elsewhere.
Klopp is a proven top flight manager. Pochettino is a challenger to that dynamic.
Spurs have had a top 2 squad and finished top 3.
It’s very unfair, but Fergies last seasons, Leicester’s season and Chelsea’s last proves that you don’t have to be an all conquering force to win the thing.
Poch has fallen short plenty of times. The league. Cups. Lots.
Imagine if Poch could spend 100 million on midfielders for example. Are we going to sit there and say Winks & Sissoko as a midfield is a good one on paper? It was only just last season where Sissoko was useless and we didnt even know who Winks was.
Sorry what? Davies and post injury Rose over Robertson? He's the best left back in the league!Trippier also is not that good. Fantastic delivery on him, but defensively he's one of the most suspect fullbacks in the league. Regularly gives opponents goals (especially in the big games) and whilst I don't rate TAA that much more highly, he doesn't seem to be as dodgy. Trippier is massively overrated 'cos he banged in a free kick at the world cup.
Eriksen is fecking class, but Salah scored 40+ last season and is favourite for top scorer in the league again this season. He's a legitimate contender for being the best player in the league now and I'd definitely say better than Eriksen, I think most neutrals would as well to be honest?
Wijnaldum is the best CM in either squad, think he's seriously underrated. Alli might make the team tbf, but either way I think they have a better starting lineup (though it's close) and a significantly better squad overall.
He has already finished 2nd which Klopp so far has failed to do. It was only after spending big money on VD, a GK, and over 100 million on midfielders are they now above Spurs.
Dude, it sucks, but Klopp is probably better.
Yes Pochettino would have fared better with an additional £100-150m but he’s already got a team that’s better.
Alli would sell for £100m+. Easily. He’s a phenomenal footballer that would be worth every penny. He’s as comfortable as a 10 as he is a dominant 6. He was great in the second half against us.
Spurs have as many, or more truly top tier footballers than Liverpool.
I can absolutely accept that they needed a cash injection. Had they got it in 2016 and 2017 they could have been looking at a 5 year period of shared dominance with City.
But to suggest they couldn’t have challenged without that is nonsense.
Ignore the cash.
Make that quote “only after obtaining players in their positions that are as good as what Spurs have”
That’s reality.
Poch made those players good enough. That's the point.
Pochettino has fallen short in the league exactly once, in his second season where we should have got 2nd over Arsenal, and that was because the squad downed tools after we lost the title. The season after we were fantastic and got 2nd (but conte's chelsea were fantastic) and the season after that City were invincible and United finished 2nd with a tally which would have won the league in some previous seasons. We're currently 3rd behind two ridiculous teams worth feck knows how many hundreds of millions.
Pochettino has always pretty much had to work with what he has. The squad has had potential but he's nurtured that and improved nearly all of them. If Klopp has a weakness in his squad (keeper, cb, midfield) he can splash record fees and bring in a ready made world class player.
Trippier also is not that good. Fantastic delivery on him, but defensively he's one of the most suspect fullbacks in the league. Regularly gives opponents goals (especially in the big games) and whilst I don't rate TAA that much more highly, he doesn't seem to be as dodgy. Trippier is massively overrated 'cos he banged in a free kick at the world cup.
Eriksen is fecking class, but Salah scored 40+ last season and is favourite for top scorer in the league again this season. He's a legitimate contender for being the best player in the league now and I'd definitely say better than Eriksen, I think most neutrals would as well to be honest?
Wijnaldum is the best CM in either squad, think he's seriously underrated. Alli might make the team tbf, but either way I think they have a better starting lineup (though it's close) and a significantly better squad overall.
Salah as a centre forward, compared to Kane? Kane wins.
As a player? Eriksen wins.
It’s a tough question to ask and answer admittedly.
I think you’re underrating Trippier (possibly correctly) because you see him every week and over-rating Robertson because you don’t. He’s Luke-Shaw in a more fluid team, for me. Maybe I don’t watch Liverpool enough admittedly.
Alli walks into a combined 11 though. Every time.