A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[EwanI Ted]

The fact that people are now judging Spurs side by side with the other top 5 sides is really an unwitting compliment for Pochettino. He took a team whose total success in the premier league era was like 2 top four finishes in the previous 20 years, the very definition of a mid table club. Without much in the way of big transfers and with a wage bill that’s about the same as Everton and West Ham and just 2/3 that of Liverpool and Arsenal’s (and half ours) he’s had them finishing 2nd or 3rd regularly. And he’s done it while playing modern tactical football, championing young players and adding discipline and fortitude to a notoriously lightweight club.

Whether he’s right for United is another debate entirely, but he’s done an immense job for Spurs and when he leaves there’s a very high likelihood the club will slide backwards. By rights they should be in that group battling to reach the top 6, not trying to win the title.

 

[Ban]

Yep. 11 goals in 2 utter smashfests, and then suddenly could be within 3 points of top if results go their way, and lose at home to Wolves.
Really could not make it up. More of a shock than Arsenal getting battered for sure.

Yeah, it's just typical Spurs really. Look getting him wouldn't be the worst choice, on the contrary and I slightly like the idea more than before but there is a concern about that. Maybe he'll be great at United (if he comes of course) but on the other hand it would be a 1st time that he's at a really big, huge club. Expectations at United and Spurs cant be compared.

 

[Sandikan]

Yeah, it's just typical Spurs really. Look getting him wouldn't be the worst choice, on the contrary and I slightly like the idea more than before but there is a concern about that. Maybe he'll be great at United (if he comes of course) but on the other hand it would be a 1st time that he's at a really big, huge club. Expectations at United and Spurs cant be compared.

Exactly. If he was ticking over with Tottenham in 5th or 6th, no one would say a word, so he has no pressure there.
If he was operating 3/4th at United, beyond say a bedding in season, the pressure would very quickly ramp up.

I have a bit of a preference for Solskjaer continuing at the moment. Probably obvious honeymoon period stuff, but we'll see how he continues.
So far he's been 100% spot on in demeanour, and football.
He's done what Giggs should have done - got out there and made a name as a club manager, and then come back

 

[Skills]

Exactly. If he was ticking over with Tottenham in 5th or 6th, no one would say a word, so he has no pressure there.
If he was operating 3/4th at United, beyond say a bedding in season, the pressure would very quickly ramp up.

I have a bit of a preference for Solskjaer continuing at the moment. Probably obvious honeymoon period stuff, but we'll see how he continues.
So far he's been 100% spot on in demeanour, and football.
He's done what Giggs should have done - got out there and made a name as a club manager, and then come back

Bollocks. The bar at Utd for managers is very, very low. There's no way Mourinho would've been sacked had we been in 4th place despite him playing absolutely awful football and spending a fortune. People would shout on about needing time/transition/overhauls and that good stuff.

Out of all the top European clubs the bar/expectations at Utd are by far the lowest.

 

[Ban]

Exactly. If he was ticking over with Tottenham in 5th or 6th, no one would say a word, so he has no pressure there.
If he was operating 3/4th at United, beyond say a bedding in season, the pressure would very quickly ramp up.

I have a bit of a preference for Solskjaer continuing at the moment. Probably obvious honeymoon period stuff, but we'll see how he continues.
So far he's been 100% spot on in demeanour, and football.
He's done what Giggs should have done - got out there and made a name as a club manager, and then come back

Oh of course. I would be happy as hell if Ole would prove to be a hit. Right now it's all near perfect. But it's just 2 games and it's a new manager effect too. If he continues with good form and even gets us 4th somehow he should be seriously considered as a permanent manager.


Saying that I had a 19.000th post just before, replying to you.

 

[Dominos]

It's not just this season. Spurs getting close to the top and fading away quickly is a continuous theme.

This talks like spending millions is any sort of guarantee.
Look at the amount we've spent. It wouldn't necessarily improve Spurs first X1 if they spent 100m for instance.

Poch has done amazingly to put this squad together though, and even better for some of them to keep repeatedly signing on for long periods, despite never really looking like making that final breakthrough to achieving.
I wonder if it's a mentality thing, shown in results like today. They start thinking how close to the top they are, then crumble away.

The breakdown of how Spurs have done under Poch in the first half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season is below.

31/33
35/35
39/47
34/43

So they're actually better in the "business end" of the season than they are at the start. Ironically the reason they've not come close to winning the league is they're not good enough in the first half of the season where the pressure is off.

It's simply confirmation bias - if Spurs drop points in gameweek 7 when they're nowhere near the top, they've just dropped points. If they drop points in gameweek 25 when they're 6 points off the top, then it's because they lack bottle. Teams are allowed to lose games, today wasn't the first game Spurs have lost this season.

 

[starman]

No, not at all. I've seen Juventus play in the CL, not so much in their league so my exposure isn't huge but I've seen enough to know they're the best team in a one horse league, with the best players and the biggest budget. On top of that they are largely unimpressive in most games, they're organised but most of their goals are down to individual effort.

We don't need a another manager that doesn't know what it means to manage Manchester United. We're not Juventus.

He got them to two CL finals, one with Morata....only beaten by two of the best teams ever. City have the best players and biggest budget, doesn't take away from the fact Pep is a great manager.

You are comparing Mourinho to him, massive difference is players like him. You only just need to look to Pogba to see how highly he thinks of him. After all, its under him that Pogba has produced his best football

 

[Kag]

Watching the same idiot posters (and it usually is) behave with the same reactivity as we’ve seen over the past one or two years will be a treat. Lost today. Put off him. Brilliant stuff.

Pochettino continues to do an incredible job at Spurs. They have no right whatsoever to be the closest challengers to the league leaders.

My ideal (romantic) scenario would be for Ole to go on a run and stake a claim for the job full time. But if not, then you go for this bloke.

 

[sullydnl]

Watching the same idiot posters (and it usually is) behave with the same reactivity as we’ve seen over the past one or two years will be a treat. Lost today. Put off him. Brilliant stuff.

Pochettino continues to do an incredible job at Spurs. They have no right whatsoever to be the closest challengers to the league leaders.

My ideal (romantic) scenario would be for Ole to go on a run and stake a claim for the job full time. But if not, then you go for this bloke.

Exactly right.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

Funny that - it's the same people who were begging for Jose 3 years ago that want Pochettino now.

 

[sullydnl]

The breakdown of how Spurs have done under Poch in the first half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season is below.

31/33
35/35
39/47
34/43

So they're actually better in the "business end" of the season than they are at the start. Ironically the reason they've not come close to winning the league is they're not good enough in the first half of the season where the pressure is off.

It's simply confirmation bias - if Spurs drop points in gameweek 7 when they're nowhere near the top, they've just dropped points. If they drop points in gameweek 25 when they're 6 points off the top, then it's because they lack bottle. Teams are allowed to lose games, today wasn't the first game Spurs have lost this season.

Also, today's loss only gets described as "bottling it" because Spurs play their way into second place beforehand. If they don't do that in the first place but instead hover around 4th then Poch gets less criticism despite doing worse.

 

[Ramshock]

Jose would have got castigated for that result. You see its blips like this that bother me about Poch almost as much as him never winning any trophies

 

[Dominos]

Also, today's loss only gets described as "bottling it" because Spurs play their way into second place beforehand. If they don't do that in the first place but instead hover around 4th then Poch gets less criticism despite doing worse.

Exactly what I posted before - if they were just 3 or 4 points worse off coming in to today there would have been no title talk at all, so today's result would have completely slid under the radar. That's how illogical and irrational some people are, it's absurd.

 

[Kag]

Funny that - it's the same people who were begging for Jose 3 years ago that want Pochettino now.

Probably. You get some right and you get most wrong. Three years ago I was convinced that Mourinho was destined to manage United. I’d have released Van Gaal (who I had a lot of time for, and still do) that Christmas Mourinho was let go by Chelsea. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It’s why I find it difficult to criticise the board for the (apparently haphazard) decisions they’ve made. I, and others, generally backed them all the way at the time.

Pochettino seems like the best fit right now. His teams play attacking football and he isn’t scared to bed in young players where fit. He seems like a positive individual to have around a club. But that doesn’t guarantee anything. We’ve learned enough over the past five years to know that for certain.

 

[Kag]

Also, today's loss only gets described as "bottling it" because Spurs play their way into second place beforehand. If they don't do that in the first place but instead hover around 4th then Poch gets less criticism despite doing worse.

This is spot on. Pochettino is victim of his own success. That Spurs are even expected to win a trophy speaks volumes.

 

[starman]

I am new to this thread but i never knew there were so many fanboys. They bottled it against Chelsea when 0-2 up and they bottled it today, 1-0 up at home, its amazing how many people are so defensive over the term "bottling it"

 

[Jazz]

You can't say the fragile mentality isn't down to the manager, doesn't make sense. He took Spurs as far as he can but doesn't seem to aspire them to content for the titles and his teams fall under the slightest pressure. This Spurs squad isn't weak per stretch either.

If his team falls miserably under any pressure I wonder what he'll do under such stressful job as United.

Stay away from him. If we want good football I'll prefer to keep Ole as @#07 said.

I keep saying the same thing. I hope the board doesn't overlook this. I think he would crumble here. He should stay at Spurs imho.

 

[Revan]

Who would you want?

I have my doubts too. Always have.

Ole, if things go well. Otherwise Jardim, Allegri or Zidane.

 

[RedChip]

The breakdown of how Spurs have done under Poch in the first half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season is below.

31/33
35/35
39/47
34/43

So they're actually better in the "business end" of the season than they are at the start. Ironically the reason they've not come close to winning the league is they're not good enough in the first half of the season where the pressure is off.

It's simply confirmation bias - if Spurs drop points in gameweek 7 when they're nowhere near the top, they've just dropped points. If they drop points in gameweek 25 when they're 6 points off the top, then it's because they lack bottle. Teams are allowed to lose games, today wasn't the first game Spurs have lost this season.

No it isn't. People are just observing that typically, under Poch, Spurs have crumbled in key matches that could have got them closer to a trophy or a championship. Your stats are misleading aggregates that could not account for the detail of such key matches.

 

[Dominos]

No it isn't. People are just observing that typically, under Poch, Spurs have crumbled in key matches that could have got them closer to a trophy or a championship. Your stats are misleading aggregates that could not account for the detail of such key matches.

They have also crumbled in non-key matches. You have decided which matches you think are the important ones and then you have decided the reason they've failed to win them games, based on your own bias and own agenda.

If a team loses every 6th game they play in a season - so they lose gameweek 6, 12, 18, 24, 30 and 36 and win the rest and miss out on the title by a point - you're probably going to claim they've bottled it in gameweek 30 and 36. In a logical and rational world then they've simply dropped points because you can't win every game in football.

Let's say instead they lost every 4th game they played in the season. Now they were always too far behind in the title race and so finish way behind the leaders. The manager is declared to have done an excellent job because he still got a good points total and finished top 4. Yet if he'd have done a much better job and come close to the title he would be labelled as a bottler. It's just ludicrous.

 

[BluesJr]

He is my choice but I do have concerns over his ability to get the best out of his players when they are really in the hunt. That shouldn’t have happened today.

Concerning.

 

[crossy1686]

He got them to two CL finals, one with Morata....only beaten by two of the best teams ever. City have the best players and biggest budget, doesn't take away from the fact Pep is a great manager.

You are comparing Mourinho to him, massive difference is players like him. You only just need to look to Pogba to see how highly he thinks of him. After all, its under him that Pogba has produced his best football

They'd had by far and wide one of the best teams in Europe over the last couple of years. They've consistently pillaged Serie A for the best players, similar to what Bayern do in Germany except more money involved, and when you've got a whole league of players at your disposal you can build whatever team you want. Imagine United could have any player in the PL if they just threw enough money at it because everyone knew we'd win the league anyway. Allegri deserves credit for the Champions League runs but swap him out for pretty much any decent manager and Juventus will still mop up trophies domestically, and I'll be willing to bet that despite signing Ronaldo, they'll still fall short in the CL.

The PL and Serie A are also very different leagues.

 

[crossy1686]

Watching the same idiot posters (and it usually is) behave with the same reactivity as we’ve seen over the past one or two years will be a treat. Lost today. Put off him. Brilliant stuff.

Pochettino continues to do an incredible job at Spurs. They have no right whatsoever to be the closest challengers to the league leaders.

My ideal (romantic) scenario would be for Ole to go on a run and stake a claim for the job full time. But if not, then you go for this bloke.

Just because someone has a different opinion to you doesn't mean it's stupid.

Agree completely with your ideal scenario though. If Solskjaer does a good enough job to stay on, then so be it. If he doesn't, Poch looks like the only candidate worthy.

 

[crossy1686]

Ole, if things go well. Otherwise Jardim, Allegri or Zidane.

If they're our options then I hope to god Ole works out.

 

[staniswin]

40M for Argentine Moyes , even board won't be that dumb.

 

[RedChip]

You have decided which matches you think are the important ones and then you have decided the reason they've failed to win them games, based on your own bias and own agenda.

Your use of stats seems to suggest all matches are equally important; sorry, that's bollocks.

The matches we are talking about include key matches to advance in cup competitions or get close to the EPL, e.g. Chelsea. I doubt that there were many Spurs fans who didn't consider those matches important.

Today's was important because they could have stolen a match on the competition and maintained momentum.

 

[crossy1686]

Pochettino is currently in his 5th year at Spurs so I thought I'd go back and have a look at his record in the big games since he took over:

2014/2015 - Second half of the season

Fairly standard. About what you'd expect from at top 6 team. Not a whole lot of consistency, unable to win more than 3 games in a row. Home and away form almost the same.

The run in 2014/2015

FA Cup - out in the 4th round

Carling Cup - Lost the final to Chelsea

UEFA Cup - Knocked out in the last 32

Won't be too hard on Poch for this season seeing as it was his first one. Decent effort considering where Spurs had come from.

 

[Random Task]

If they're our options then I hope to god Ole works out.

Allegri has ruled himself out of the job already.

According to reports, Jardim has had multiple run-ins with club hierarchies which, in combination with the clubs poor form at the start of the season, resulted in his sacking from Monaco. Perhaps a Monaco fan could confirm this one way or the other. The last thing the board want is another Jose-type causing trouble.

Zidane is currently enjoying a well-earned sabbatical away from the game. I honestly think he would be the manager now had he shown the slightest bit of interest in the job.

Then we have the difficult to get Poch and there are question marks over his credentials - although still my personal favourite outside the club.

Which leaves Ole.

 

[crossy1686]

2015/2016 Season

Second half of the season form

More consistency here and some good winning streaks but appear to 'bottle it' when the pressure is really on.

The run in

Dropped a lot of points but had some difficult opponents and only a couple of days rest in between some games. Still games you have to win or draw if you have title aspirations.

FA Cup

Out in the 5th round to Palace...Poor effort.

League Cup

After previously reaching the final last season, this season saw them dumped out in the third round to Arsenal. Derby so perhaps a bit of a free hit.

UEFA Cup

Knocked out by a very good Dortmund team in the last 16.

Not a bad season but still no where near a trophy and does appear that there were periods where Spurs 'did a Spurs'.

 

[MrMarcello]

He can't hold him ransom if Pochettino wants to leave

How does it work for managers in Europe?

Is there a transfer fee paid as determined by clubs?
Does it go to an FA (or UEFA if two different leagues)?

 

[BlueHaze]

40M for Argentine Moyes , even board won't be that dumb.

What a piss poor statement even comparing Pochettino to the neanderthal Moyes.

 

[crossy1686]

2016 - 2017 Season

Second half of the season form

Really strong end of season form. Much better than previous seasons. Still finding it difficult to beat the teams in the top 4 (and West Ham). Also last season at White Heart Lane.

Start of the season

Spurs had a strong end to the campaign but they lost the league in the opening 15 games.

FA Cup

Lost the FA cup in the Semi final, to Chelsea, again

Carabao Cup

5th round defeat at the hands of Liverpool

Champions League

Finished 3rd in their relatively easy group, only winning two games.

Results

UEFA Cup

Knocked out by Gent in the last 32.

Great end of season form that covered up a lot of bottling along the way. Cup runs were piss poor and the Champions League was poorer. Signs suggest that under the weight of expectation, Spurs don't do so well.

 

[crossy1686]

2017/2018 Season

Second half of the season form

Fairly normal. Spurs dropped points to Man City, West Brom and drew to Brighton. City and United had pulled ahead considerably this season however.

Early season form

This is again where Spurs lost the league

FA Cup

Semi finals to be knocked out by Manchester United. Worrying trend appearing in that Spurs do not do well against sides with a bigger reputation.

League Cup

Lost to West Ham, again... 4th round this time

Champions League

Much better performance this time in quite a tough group. However, Dortmund were no longer the team they were.

Results

Knockouts -last 16

Spurs were knocked out by a strong Juventus side after bottling a 1-0 lead at home.

Good season (for Spurs) but again, signs of bottling big occasions and difficulty beating the bigger teams.

 

[Alexit]

If they're our options then I hope to god Ole works out.

Same. I'm not that sold on Zidane. Don't want United to be the test case to see if Real's UCL 3-Peat was down to his coaching or that amazing squad which included a certain OT legend.

 

[Champ]

The breakdown of how Spurs have done under Poch in the first half of the season vs the 2nd half of the season is below.

31/33
35/35
39/47
34/43

So they're actually better in the "business end" of the season than they are at the start. Ironically the reason they've not come close to winning the league is they're not good enough in the first half of the season where the pressure is off.

It's simply confirmation bias - if Spurs drop points in gameweek 7 when they're nowhere near the top, they've just dropped points. If they drop points in gameweek 25 when they're 6 points off the top, then it's because they lack bottle. Teams are allowed to lose games, today wasn't the first game Spurs have lost this season.

Spurs tend to lose when the pressure is on, that means they lose games when they are expected to win or when it means more than 3 points, like the Wolves game, like the Arsenal game.
It's a common theme across the last 4/5 years, whether it's the first game or last is irrelevant.
Let's be honest they had a golden chance to win the league when Leicester won it, they ended up third!! Right now they had a chance to go within 3 points of the top, with every media outlet and pundit proclaiming them as genuine title challengers and they lost despite taking the lead.
Poch has no plan b, which was evident in the wolves game, and the bottling theme is a constant across many seasons now.

 

[King.of.Red]

Still not sure about Poch. For me Ole is the best choice right now and as a United legend, he understands a lot about Manchester United, our glory and history. I really hope he can be successful with us (top 4 or even top 3, UCL semi or final) and the board decide him as our permanent manager.

 

[Patrick08]

Same. I'm not that sold on Zidane. Don't want United to be the test case to see if Real's UCL 3-Peat was down to his coaching or that amazing squad which included a certain OT legend.

Every manager has to start somewhere, though. Ok the squad was supposedly great, still you have to make them play as a unit, and build a playing style which is relevant in modern football and get the best out of the lot. He did that absolutely perfectly. He sorted out the balance of his team specially the midfeild, read the game well, changed the game often with his substitutions. Even managed to get top performances and around 20 goals from morata coming of the bench who is supposed to be a Madrid youth.

For some reason i find him underrated in forum.

 

[Patrick08]

This is where pochh spurs have lacked the killer instinct to mount a serious challenge.

 

[Patrick08]

One of the box, pochh doesn't tick for me right now, is the lack of killer instinct in his team and that ruthless mentality needed to cross the final hurdle.

It could be that his team tires out and needs some rest and lack of good bench could also be one of the reason, but it's more of a mentality thing that pochh spurs can't come out of.

 

[Striker10]

I think much still depends on Ole. Ole, especially having managed reserves acts as a bridge between what we have now and the future. In addition what we have now, is some of what he was around like Pogba for instance - who could certainly be inspired now with someones of Oles character. For me, the only question marks are what we would do in the transfer market and how he would deal with adversity. Poch is no sure thing. He's not won trophies. If we got him, we don't know how long he would be here for us to build anything. I think at spurs, Levys been big for them because they used a scatter gun approach to transfers. Seemingly, they bring in lots of players to find the right combination and bring through youth. Would that happen at United? We still waiting on DOF and their opinion. Would they side with the manager or board and/or would the board not interfere? Lots of questions but from what we see in the last two games - we have an energy and a hunger that's been missing. If we can build on this then we have an outstanding foundation with which to build on