3-4-3 Aint it.

[Møllemanden]

It doesn't matter what formation we play, but if it's 1 striker against 3 defenders we aren't going to win.

Exactly. Yesterday Wolves had four men inside the box when a crossing opportunity arrived.

Of course its dangerous for Ruben to send too many men forward if no one is interested in running back afterwards.

 

[fergiewherearethou]

Exactly. Yesterday Wolves had four men inside the box when a crossing opportunity arrived.

Of course its dangerous for Ruben to send too many men forward if no one is interested in running back afterwards.

So the manager decides how many players go forward, but when running back in defense, he allows the players to decide for themselves? Is this how it works?

 

[Møllemanden]

So the manager decides how many players go forward, but when running back in defense, he allows the players to decide for themselves? Is this how it works?

That's how it seems or have seemed to be for many months. The work rate has been poor in this team for a long time. I remember Erik having the team run a 12k (or something like that) after the Brentford match. Running stats have been inferior to many teams for a long time.

 

[MyDevil]

It doesn't matter what formation we play, but if it's 1 striker against 3 defenders we aren't going to win.

Exactly. Our WBs do not have choice to cross the ball as there is not enough bodies in the opposition box. We need to have more box to box midfield runners. Our attacks are just too slow, too predictable and easy to deal with. They are too cautious. Don't understand why Wolves can have so many bodies in our box when they attack and yet we only have one Hoijland waiting for the ball.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

So the manager decides how many players go forward, but when running back in defense, he allows the players to decide for themselves? Is this how it works?

The players are simply not interested in tracking back. There’s your infamous Rashford video where a players simply dribbles around him and he does nothing to stop him. There was a game where Casemiro had an outburst at Garnacho because he gave away the ball and didn’t come back to help defensively. It was the same case with Sancho and AwB before. This shite has been going on for so long

 

[CM]

I sympathise with Amorim to a certain extent because it's clear this is the system he wants to implement long term but there are too many square pegs in round holes with the group of players he's inherited. Amorim won't change system, he's been very clear about that, but something has to change.

The obvious tweak is to drop a defender for another attacking player. Mazraoui should revert to RCB and somebody else should come in at RWB, be that Antony or Amad. Outside of Amad and Mount, I don't think any of our players are particularly well suited for the 10 roles in Amorim's system, but I'd sooner see the likes of Garnacho and Zirkzee playing those positions in the short term than starting with 5 defenders every match. The football is so sterile with 5 defenders.

 

[dinostar77]

There isn’t anything wrong with the 343/3421 system… but does it suit the squad?

There is seemingly no place that suits 2 of our most dangerous attackers in Garna and Rashford.

Bruno has never looked consistent in anything other than the free role 10 afforded by a 4231

None of our traditional CBs look particularly well suited to the wide CB role because of either a lack of ball playing ability or mobility.

Dalot has never looked consistent in anything other than a traditional RB role.

We need a complete squad rebuild to play this system. And with PSR/FFP, plus the bumper contracts our players are on, how is that gonna be possible?

Ruud proved you can get a tune out of this squad in the right setup.

He will get some players in the summer (hopefully) and a preseason should get the players at the right level, physically, tactically etc

Agree we dont have the squad for amorim at the moment, but it will come right. He needs time.

You can't blame him for the dire signings ETH made: Antony, Onana, Mount etc

 

[Malone_Post]

What started out as a genuine 3-4-3 with Amad as one of the wingbacks playing virtually as an attacker has quickly descended into a 5-4-1. Which was always the worry.

You simply can’t play 5 defenders AND a DM as a Manchester United manager. 6/11 of the starting line up should absolutely not be defensive players.

Swap Maz & Dalot for actual wingers and I think we’ll look far better. It’s a shame we can’t clone Amad and have him as a winger & #10.

 

[Andycoleno9]

I knew this will happen. Erik's downfall was when he ditched his system and style because "you must adapt on PL". And now people already want from Amorim to do the same.

3421 is the way forward and i do hope that Amorim will not ditch it.

 

[TheReligion]

What started out as a genuine 3-4-3 with Amad as one of the wingbacks playing virtually as an attacker has quickly descended into a 5-4-1. Which was always the worry.

You simply can’t play 5 defenders AND a DM as a Manchester United manager. 6/11 of the starting line up should absolutely not be defensive players.

Swap Maz & Dalot for actual wingers and I think we’ll look far better. It’s a shame we can’t clone Amad and have him as a winger & #10.

I actually agree with you in that we looked a better team, going forward, with Amad in the wide area.

Dalot and Mazraoui simply don’t offer enough in terms of driving at and committing opponents. Too passive. The whole idea of the system hinges on the wide players and what they bring but I can only assume Amorim is that short of options in the 10 role he’s tried to plug both with our only player who seems to get what is needed.

If Mount had stayed fit him in the 10 with Amad wide would be ideal.

 

[Resch]

Its not the system we play, which causes us problems. It is system the club was run over the last decade, which causes us problems. Money and ads were more important than success. Our players rate money over success too now...

 

[sammyhol]

I knew this will happen. Erik's downfall was when he ditched his system and style because "you must adapt on PL". And now people already want from Amorim to do the same.

3421 is the way forward and i do hope that Amorim will not ditch it.

I don’t think that is what happened with ETH.

He came in with an idea and tried it to implement it for the first couple of games in his first season, and we were awful.

He then went to a more traditional/pragmatic 4231 counter style and we looked decent.

Then in his first second summer he tried to put his stamp on things again and failed miserably.

 

[FriedClams]

3-4-3 with the current players is not it, but it will be an effective formation in time. I think a lot of the fans impatience comes from being embarrassed by the constant taunting from opposition fans, but if we really want to make progress, we have to stick with Amorim for a while. These players are mostly not good enough, and Amorim hasn't signed a single player, Until he makes his actual stamp on the team with players he chooses, I'm detached from caring too much about the results.

 

[Adnan]

I knew this will happen. Erik's downfall was when he ditched his system and style because "you must adapt on PL". And now people already want from Amorim to do the same.

3421 is the way forward and i do hope that Amorim will not ditch it.

A formation change doesn't mean you ditch the system of play. The system remains the same whilst getting the best out of the players at your disposal.

 

[DJ_21]

Try telling Inter that 3 at the back doesn’t work or Leverkusen who won a league title last year. The formation isn’t the problem… how many more times… can’t people see that? It’s the players… this will become an effective formation… we need a lot of players for it though, specifically fit and rapid Wing backs. Aswell as a clinical forward.

 

[In Rainbows]

I'm not about prioritizing short term success over the long term success. Amorim isn't going to change for this reason. We just need to back him, force players to adapt or they can go.

 

[stevoc]

Try telling Inter that 3 at the back doesn’t work or Leverkusen who won a league title last year. The formation isn’t the problem… how many more times… can’t people see that? It’s the players… this will become an effective formation… we need a lot of players for it though, specifically fit and rapid Wing backs. Aswell as a clinical forward.

When you don't currently have the players for a particular formation to work effectively then the formation is the problem.

 

[Ayoba]

Try telling Inter that 3 at the back doesn’t work or Leverkusen who won a league title last year. The formation isn’t the problem… how many more times… can’t people see that? It’s the players… this will become an effective formation… we need a lot of players for it though, specifically fit and rapid Wing backs. Aswell as a clinical forward.

But surely if you don't have the right players for the formation, then the formation is the problem?

 

[Sandikan]

I do think that the system lacks any width as the two behind the striker are meant to be 10’s with the wing backs providing the width but a left hand side of Dalot and Fernandes lacks any pace, width and power as both have to cut back with a flat pass as neither can beat a man.

The obvious example of a 3-4-3 working is Chelsea under Conte but the difference was Conte had wingers in Hazard, Pedro and Willian and a wide playmaker in Oscar whilst they had a winger on one side as a wing back in Moses and a proper wing back on the left in Alonso.

We’re playing a right back at left wing back, a right back at right wing back and a central 10 with zero pace and who has a problem with sticking up top so drifts deep into midfield and takes the ball off the central midfielders leaving us in a positional mess to a left sided 10 role.

It’s clear that going from todays game alone Onana, Dalot and Fernandes can NOT play in an Amorim team with a 3-4-3 and then there’s Rashford, Garnacho, Antony and Zirkzee who also don’t look like they fit through either a horrible attitude or simply not being good enough and that’s before I mention Shaw, Malacia and Mount who are all permanently injured.

We NEED two left wing backs if Amass isn’t ready, a right wing back, a Carrick type midfielder, at least one attacking midfielder/winger and an established striker who will press hard from the front and score goals so at least 6 players in but the problem is our PSR/FFP is meant to be borderline.

In a 3-4-3 I think Mazraoui is best at right sided centre back so that position is fine with Mazraoui and Yoro, the central of the three is fine with De Ligt and Maguire, the left sided centre back role could be improved on but if Shaw can stay semi fit then he can be back up to Martinez until Kukonki is ready.

Dalot is at best a back up right wing back, in the middle we’ve got Ugarte and Mainoo but Casemiro and Eriksen will both be gone in the summer, Diallo staying is a must whilst Hojlund is good as a back up striker so I’d keep Mazraoui, Yoro, De Ligt, Maguire, Martinez, Shaw, Dalot, Amass, Mainoo, Ugarte, Diallo and Hojlund but the rest I’d happily move on and bring in players to play the system.

If Shaw is fit he'd definitely not be a back up to anyone. He'd probably be the 1st name on the sheet.

Obviously "if" becomes the biggest word in the English language.

 

[Sandikan]

When you don't currently have the players for a particular formation to work effectively then the formation is the problem.

This is the bit I keep coming back to as well.

It's one thing to bed a system in, but if most of this lot don't suit it, and we'll need to ship them before it works, is there any benefit sticking relentlessly to it, rather than trying other things and trying to have a go at the heights of top half?

People keep saying how the players have shown we can't come higher, but Ten Hag had us top 3 2 seasons ago was it? And 8th last year even with all the injury problems. People are acting like we've been finishing bottom half for years.

Most worrying, that 8th was seen as an absolute disaster rock bottom, yet we've comfortably found a new one, and probably aren't quite bottomed out yet.

 

[Abusian]

Surely the new system works best with a left footed LWB and a right footed RWB? That’s what creates the width needed to stretch opposition defenders, giving space for the inside forwards / 10s to operate. It also becomes a good source of crosses for an old style 9 like Rasmus to feed off.

In the absence of Shaw, perhaps Chilwell on loan could be a good stopgap for us. It would allow Dalot to play on his favoured right side, where I suspect he’ll be more productive, giving us proper width on both sides which might allow the new system to bed in a bit.

Also interested in who skippers us in Bruno’s absence. I’ll go for Ugarte, who is really beginning to shine after a rough start. He’s a fighter, but without Bruno’s lippy whining. Who knows, if he continues this trajectory we might have a baby Roy on our hands, which would be terrific.

Edit: Ugarte also suspended for Newcastle, so scratch him being skipper.

 

[DJ_21]

When you don't currently have the players for a particular formation to work effectively then the formation is the problem.

What was the excuse under ETH then since he bought players for his 4-2-3-1 yet that wasn’t effective at all.

 

[DJ_21]

But surely if you don't have the right players for the formation, then the formation is the problem?

Did he have the right players for the formation when he first joined sporting? Because I remember before him sporting played a 4-3-3 because I remember Bruno being one of the CM players. We have the right CBs for it, just need some wing backs and a clinical ST. We’ve played 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 under previous managers and still looked awful. Amorim even said himself when he joined that it isn’t about formations but more about tactics etc.

 

[Greck]

I've seen enough failed attempts at brilliant passing combinations to know I'm willing to dump every player before doubting Amorim. 600m and not a single technical ball carrier through the middle.

 

[Woziak]

Amorim’s system is 3421 and he very rarely plays 343, it’s important to note that he is so obsessed with this formation, he has an absolute type in every position. He also believes in Triangulating partnerships throughout the team, groups of 3 that can literally rotate and fill in their partners space when vacated.

He rarely uses 343 which would mean out and out inverted wide strikers are really no use to him, hence Rashford and Garnaucho have been marginalised.

The biggest problem facing Amorim right now, is the cub has huge PSSR issues but more importantly bigger cash flow issues so we have to sell big players to finance a major upheaval in the club personel to help the transition.

Ruben’s now over seen 10 matches, he’s Won 4, Drawn 1 and lost 5. He’s had enough time to access his squad and based on who he’s selecting I would wager that he’s put them into three categories , Red(must go!), Amber(He will give them to end of season to prove themselves!), Green(Fits his ideas and character of a man United player for his high energy 3421 system)

Red Zone ;
A Onana(GK), A Bayinder(GK)
V Lindelof(CB), J Evans(CB),
T Mallacia(LB), Casemiro(DM),
C Eriksen(CM), J Zirkzee(SS),
M Rashford(LWS), A Garnaucho(LW) ,
Antony (RW).
(11)
Amber Zone;
H Maguire(CB), L Martinez(LCB)
Bruno(AM), M Mount(AM), D Dalot(WB)
R Hojlund(9), T Collyer(CM), L Shaw(LB)
(8)
Green zone;
T Heaton(GK), MDL(CB), N Mazraoui(RCB),
A Dialo(AM/RWB), M Ugarte(DM),
K Mainoo(CM/AM), L Yoro(CB),
(7)

Ruben may want to keep 5 or 6 of the players listed in Amber Zone, but if players like Mount and Shaw can’t stay fit, INEOS will want them sold. To facilitate a reset of this magnitude and keep the team stabilised in the PL is a task on its own, however selling let’s say, 12 players from that squad of 26 and replacing them with 9 or 10 and 2 or 3 from the youth teams is a monumental task without a DOF whom you recently sacked!

Assuming the club gets rid of all 11 in the red zone during the January and Summer window; They manage to sell Onana(25m), Bayinder(5m), Lindelof and Evans leave on a free, Zirkzee (30m), Casemiro(15m), Antony(20m), Rashford(35m), Garnaucho(55m), Malacia(3m) and Eriksen(2m). That’s a maximum of £190m however Garnaucho and Rashford represent 100% profit. They then only sell 2 from the Amber list ; Lisandro Martinez for 40m and T Collyer for 10m, you won’t se the other with the wages they are on and Maguire will probably win a new lesser contract. United now need to sign 9/10 players in 2 windows with 240-250m plus maybe £90-100m from wage savings and transfer allotted budgets.

The club needs to find 4 to 5 players at the bare minimum in January without exception, a number 10 who is also a striker that can score goals, A Left wing back and a high energy CM who dictates the pace of the game.

We need to be ruthless, I actually think we need two left footed wing backs, one loan one permanent in January. I also do not think Garnaucho will be sold until the summer. I can see the following all leaving in January; M Rashford (40m), T Mallacia(3m), C Eriksen(2m), A Bayinder(5m), J Zirkzee (30m).

That’s £80m added to £50-60m which is actually available, irrespective of what’s reported in the media and then the club would generate a £130-140m which could be then be used to buy the following players this January;

V Osimhen - 60m
B Chillwell - loan 6 months only 2m
A Nouri or M Kerkez - 30m
M Cunha - Loan with Obligation to buy - 10m loan fee plus 55m in Summer
A Gomes - 5m (6 months only his contract)
C Mudweke - Loan £3m

We need to prioritise in Attacking positions and left wing back added to at least 2 or 3 loan deals on players with a point to prove just to support the coach.

Most fans will think this is mad and not possible, but those same fans never thought United would ever be 14th with 22 points from 18 PL games played.

We must buy Amorim 2-3 new players and try and find another 2 or 3 through the loan system, to help him instal his standards immediately.

The club needs new players who have something to prove and young hungry future stars who raise the bar instantly, simply with hard work and a willingness to buy into the coach’s ethos and ideas.

 

[Plant0x84]

Needs too many specific skill sets. does Amorim have an alternative? He needs to start winning games and perhaps deviating from his plan.

I'm not saying sack Amorim, I'm saying he needs try something else. Bringing in 10 new players isn't going to happen.

You don’t give up after 10 games. He isn’t going to try something else. Past managers have changed the plan and bent to the will of the players and results haven’t been any better.

Also it’s not about signing 10 new players to suit the system. It’s about developing the team we have to play his system, which is why he needs time and why results will be inconsistent. He is a ‘head coach’ not a manager and his job is to coach. Thats why he keeps banging on about training time between games.

 

[stevoc]

What was the excuse under ETH then since he bought players for his 4-2-3-1 yet that wasn’t effective at all.

There were many excuses, but the main reason he struggled was because he tried to implement a nonsensical style of play.

 

[stevoc]

This is the bit I keep coming back to as well.

It's one thing to bed a system in, but if most of this lot don't suit it, and we'll need to ship them before it works, is there any benefit sticking relentlessly to it, rather than trying other things and trying to have a go at the heights of top half?

People keep saying how the players have shown we can't come higher, but Ten Hag had us top 3 2 seasons ago was it? And 8th last year even with all the injury problems. People are acting like we've been finishing bottom half for years.

Most worrying, that 8th was seen as an absolute disaster rock bottom, yet we've comfortably found a new one, and probably aren't quite bottomed out yet.

Yeah I'm all for switching formations if that's what the manager wants but I fail to see the logic in trying that with a struggling team and an ill suited set of players when CL football is still possible.

For me it'd have been more sensible to stick to 4231, give top 4 a go and then switch in the summer with a pre-season and new signings to compliment the new system.

 

[DJ_21]

There were many excuses, but the main reason he struggled was because he tried to implement a nonsensical style of play.

He gave up on his own style of play after 2 games when we got leathered of Brentford. Now people are wanting Amorim to do the same.

 

[Greck]

We could hypothetically climb the table by bringing Rashford back and having Bruno spam longballs but what exactly are we trying to salvage to justify taking one step back?

 

[stevoc]

He gave up on his own style of play after 2 games when we got leathered of Brentford. Now people are wanting Amorim to do the same.

And things improved. They are hardly the same situation though, Ten Hag's ideal style of play was batshit. Amroim's style of play is fine it's just we currently don't have the personnel to effectively play his chosen formation.

To be honest a coach with so little flexibility is a bit of a red flag for me, hopefully he tweaks things. Even Klopp and Pep made adjustments after their first few months in English football.

 

[stevoc]

We could hypothetically climb the table by bringing Rashford back and having Bruno spam longballs but what exactly are we trying to salvage to justify taking one step back?

European football? A top half finish? Not get drawn into the relegation zone?

 

[shabin_d_great]

Amorim’s system is 3421 and he very rarely plays 343, it’s important to note that he is so obsessed with this formation, he has an absolute type in every position. He also believes in Triangulating partnerships throughout the team, groups of 3 that can literally rotate and fill in their partners space when vacated.

He rarely uses 343 which would mean out and out inverted wide strikers are really no use to him, hence Rashford and Garnaucho have been marginalised.

The biggest problem facing Amorim right now, is the cub has huge PSSR issues but more importantly bigger cash flow issues so we have to sell big players to finance a major upheaval in the club personel to help the transition.

Ruben’s now over seen 10 matches, he’s Won 4, Drawn 1 and lost 5. He’s had enough time to access his squad and based on who he’s selecting I would wager that he’s put them into three categories , Red(must go!), Amber(He will give them to end of season to prove themselves!), Green(Fits his ideas and character of a man United player for his high energy 3421 system)

Red Zone ;
A Onana(GK), A Bayinder(GK)
V Lindelof(CB), J Evans(CB),
T Mallacia(LB), Casemiro(DM),
C Eriksen(CM), J Zirkzee(SS),
M Rashford(LWS), A Garnaucho(LW) ,
Antony (RW).
(11)
Amber Zone;
H Maguire(CB), L Martinez(LCB)
Bruno(AM), M Mount(AM), D Dalot(WB)
R Hojlund(9), T Collyer(CM), L Shaw(LB)
(8)
Green zone;
T Heaton(GK), MDL(CB), N Mazraoui(RCB),
A Dialo(AM/RWB), M Ugarte(DM),
K Mainoo(CM/AM), L Yoro(CB),
(7)

Ruben may want to keep 5 or 6 of the players listed in Amber Zone, but if players like Mount and Shaw can’t stay fit, INEOS will want them sold. To facilitate a reset of this magnitude and keep the team stabilised in the PL is a task on its own, however selling let’s say, 12 players from that squad of 26 and replacing them with 9 or 10 and 2 or 3 from the youth teams is a monumental task without a DOF whom you recently sacked!

Assuming the club gets rid of all 11 in the red zone during the January and Summer window; They manage to sell Onana(25m), Bayinder(5m), Lindelof and Evans leave on a free, Zirkzee (30m), Casemiro(15m), Antony(20m), Rashford(35m), Garnaucho(55m), Malacia(3m) and Eriksen(2m). That’s a maximum of £190m however Garnaucho and Rashford represent 100% profit. They then only sell 2 from the Amber list ; Lisandro Martinez for 40m and T Collyer for 10m, you won’t se the other with the wages they are on and Maguire will probably win a new lesser contract. United now need to sign 9/10 players in 2 windows with 240-250m plus maybe £90-100m from wage savings and transfer allotted budgets.

The club needs to find 4 to 5 players at the bare minimum in January without exception, a number 10 who is also a striker that can score goals, A Left wing back and a high energy CM who dictates the pace of the game.

We need to be ruthless, I actually think we need two left footed wing backs, one loan one permanent in January. I also do not think Garnaucho will be sold until the summer. I can see the following all leaving in January; M Rashford (40m), T Mallacia(3m), C Eriksen(2m), A Bayinder(5m), J Zirkzee (30m).

That’s £80m added to £50-60m which is actually available, irrespective of what’s reported in the media and then the club would generate a £130-140m which could be then be used to buy the following players this January;

V Osimhen - 60m
B Chillwell - loan 6 months only 2m
A Nouri or M Kerkez - 30m
M Cunha - Loan with Obligation to buy - 10m loan fee plus 55m in Summer
A Gomes - 5m (6 months only his contract)
C Mudweke - Loan £3m

We need to prioritise in Attacking positions and left wing back added to at least 2 or 3 loan deals on players with a point to prove just to support the coach.

Most fans will think this is mad and not possible, but those same fans never thought United would ever be 14th with 22 points from 18 PL games played.

We must buy Amorim 2-3 new players and try and find another 2 or 3 through the loan system, to help him instal his standards immediately.

The club needs new players who have something to prove and young hungry future stars who raise the bar instantly, simply with hard work and a willingness to buy into the coach’s ethos and ideas.

Cunha for 55m ? With his form wolves will ask for 90 or 100.

 

[stepic]

European football? A top half finish? Not get drawn into the relegation zone?

This kind of short term thinking is partly why we’re in the situation we are.

It’s more important to get as many of the players playing his system properly. Add appropriate reinforcements in January and then complete the job next summer. By this time next year you’d expect us to be vastly improved.

Far better than playing a system he doesn’t want to play long term, just to finish in the conference league places, to then have to start from scratch system wise in the summer. We’ll then have months of teething problems next year to deal with.

People just need to chill out and have patience.

 

[DJ_21]

And things improved. They are hardly the same situation though, Ten Hag's ideal style of play was batshit. Amroim's style of play is fine it's just we currently don't have the personnel to effectively play his chosen formation.

To be honest a coach with so little flexibility is a bit of a red flag for me, hopefully he tweaks things. Even Klopp and Pep made adjustments after their first few months in English football.

Despite losing games we’ve already seen a massive difference under Amorim. We can see patterns and a clear style. He’s even admitted they’ll be times where we play a back 4. No idea when but he’s been asked about different formations in previous press conferences.

 

[Bobski]

I knew this will happen. Erik's downfall was when he ditched his system and style because "you must adapt on PL". And now people already want from Amorim to do the same.

3421 is the way forward and i do hope that Amorim will not ditch it.

Disagree entirely, Ten Hag was getting results and winning confidence with a very typical Utd set up, compact in midfield, with a Cas/Eriksen or Cas/Fred base.

He stared his first pre-season playing 4-1-2-3, which is the formation he switched to late in his first season after Sabitzer came in, then commited to with the Mount signing in the next summer, after which it was total shambles until he was sacked. It was working reasonably well, carried hard by Rashford, Martinez and Casemiro until he made that change .HIs inability to adapt away from a system that was clearly not working killed him alongside the inept recruitment.

This was inevitable as soon as they didn't sack Ten Hag, it was dammingly predictable that we would be in shambles again a couple of months into the season and now Amorin is left with a squad totally unsuited to the football he wants to play. This means we can't really judge Amorin until that changes, creating another scenario were a ton of money is chucked at the squad on faith that his system will work.

A manager being able and willing to adapt is a good thing.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

Not sure why the 3421 is talked about as this uniquely Amorim thing. Doesn't most top teams on the planet play this shape? Certainly at least flirted with it in the last couple of years. Pep certainly has played a 3-4-2-1 since the treble season, and Leverkusen under Alonso basically played the excact same shape last year. I am sure there is differing tactical instructions which better tactical minds than me can explain, but from what I understand it is all about that midfield box of four, while still having width and a forward to stretch defences, while maintaining numerical superiority in the backline to always have a free man for bringing it out of defence. Basically a shape and ideas most team and managers now implement into their gameplan even if they stray a bit from the formation.

So I am not sure why the 3-4-2-1 is so controversial at United when Amorim uses it. It is basically currently the default formation just like 4-2-3-1, 4-3-3 and 4-4-2 has been in the past. He just needs players that understand what they are supposed to do, and have the confidence and ability to execute it. As you need in any formation, but at least the one he is implementing matches what most other teams are setting up like

 

[DrZoidberg]

What did we expect when hiring a manager like Amorim?

Much like Erik ten Hag, we’ve hired Amorim because of his philosophy and style. There’s really only two approaches a new manager can make at a club:

1 - Implement a system that works for the players he’s got by making them tough to beat. The problem with this approach is it might go against that philosophy and style, and if successful, might make it more harder to change tact in the summer.

2 - Implement the philosophy and style of the new manager. Test to see which players fit and which players don’t. This will involve growing pains and potentially the results won’t go your way, but at least you are moving towards the team you want to be.

For me, I think Amorim has to try and see what works and what doesn’t work, but the danger is that if results continue to go the wrong way some might start to view him as another Erik ten Hag. I don’t have an issue with him trying to put his philosophy and style in place. It was always going to be tough. But perhaps he needs to make slight adjusts to ensure we are harder to beat defensively and more effective going forwards, otherwise this is going to be a long second half of the season.

 

[Lash]

I am confident it is the right thing to do going forward, but I'm even more confident it was never the right move with the squad we have. I thought that in general when picking a new manager, if they dive in to 3 at the back, the fans will turn on it quite quickly if they can't make it a success, as it's "not the united way".

We've switched to a formation that relies on athleticism and guile in the midfield and wing backs. We've neglected that in the midfield for the good part of a decade and have no proper attacking wingbacks. It's really not a surprise it's turned to utter shit, but we've seriously got to invest in Jan to give the squad the hope it's the right way forward.

 

[Oluwaplumpie]

The question to ask is why our players are so bad at doing basic elite football stuff.