The impact the debate can have on the polls is to prevent them from shifting.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Maybe, but the problem was always the swing voters, who are even more unlikely to vote for Biden after watching this.
She’s been quite clear that she absolutely hates politics. I’d love it, but it ain’t happening.
God damn the Democrats are actually going to fumble this election and let Trump win! The way I see it Trump can only win if Biden dies or noticeably regresses even closer to a vegetative state. The latter happened last night. That kind of showing will put serious doubts in the minds of the moderates who will be the ones who decide this election.
As a binary choice you've got the walking coma option or the slightly spritelier but insane, convicted criminal, wannabe dictator option.
The US is sleep walking into become a fascist state. Worrying times
As a binary choice you've got the walking coma option or the slightly spritelier but insane, convicted criminal, wannabe dictator option.
The US is sleep walking into become a fascist state. Worrying times
I was expecting Biden to be more coherent last night. Hopefully this was a DEFCON 1 bat signal that gets key Dems to encourage him to step aside and get Newsom & Whitmer on a ticket before the convention. Trump is very beatable as long as the Dems run a younger ticket.
It's wild seeing the reaction from the likes of CNN, MSNBC and left-wing podcasts like Pod Save America (who I would imagine would know Biden quite well as Obama's old staffers).
They're really turning the screw on Biden, I think they've made the decision to capitalize on the early timing of this debate to go all out on mounting pressure on him to step down. I think its the right thing to do but its just a testament to just how bad Biden performed.
And they're not just laying down a base level of criticism they feel they need to give in order to keep their credibility, they're taking it further. An example that springs to mind is one of the guys on Pod Save America quite furiously dismissing the idea that Biden grew into the debate, that that did not happen and no one can tell him he saw anything differently. There's some very real anger I think at Biden's insistence on seeing this through.
I'm sure if you looked back at some of these media outlets and individuals, particularly say MSNBC, you'd see them arrogantly and vehemently denying any suggestion that Biden was experiencing cognitive decline. They seem to have bypassed the feeling of utter embarrassment they should be feeling and gone right to placing that embarrassment at Biden's feet.
They're really turning the screw on Biden, I think they've made the decision to capitalize on the early timing of this debate to go all out on mounting pressure on him to step down. I think its the right thing to do but its just a testament to just how bad Biden performed.
And they're not just laying down a base level of criticism they feel they need to give in order to keep their credibility, they're taking it further. An example that springs to mind is one of the guys on Pod Save America quite furiously dismissing the idea that Biden grew into the debate, that that did not happen and no one can tell him he saw anything differently. There's some very real anger I think at Biden's insistence on seeing this through.
I'm sure if you looked back at some of these media outlets and individuals, particularly say MSNBC, you'd see them arrogantly and vehemently denying any suggestion that Biden was experiencing cognitive decline. They seem to have bypassed the feeling of utter embarrassment they should be feeling and gone right to placing that embarrassment at Biden's feet.
Something that also complicates the situation, is the fact that even if Biden steps down as a candidate, how does he avoid the implication that he isn't currently fit for office?
It would be another thing entirely if he had decided to be a one term president and annoint a successor, at that point his limitations wouldn't be so obvious. However, at this point the president would be dropping out because he isn't currently capable of making a strong argument that he is fit for office - a job he currently has - that opens a bit of a Pandoras box.
It would be another thing entirely if he had decided to be a one term president and annoint a successor, at that point his limitations wouldn't be so obvious. However, at this point the president would be dropping out because he isn't currently capable of making a strong argument that he is fit for office - a job he currently has - that opens a bit of a Pandoras box.
George W. Bush looks like a MENSA candidate compared to these two.
There has to be a plan in place if Biden drops dead tomorrow. I refuse to believe that isn't formally written up somewhere. It's time to bring that plan out.
Starmer tops the group but will likely crumble early in the knock out rounds
There is. It’s in the Constitution. They would swear in Kamala Harris as president
There's only one person who's going persuade Biden to drop out and that's his wife
The DNC should be on their knees begging Oprah to jump in, it's about the only chance they have right now!
The DNC should be on their knees begging Oprah to jump in, it's about the only chance they have right now!
Not even a week ago there was talk of how the Trump campaign's "old doddering Biden" shtick would be torpedoed once Biden came out and gave a good, lucid debate performance. So much for that.
I honestly didn't think he was any worse last night than he was four years ago. Sure he started a bit slow, but his mind is still there. Trump on the other hand is just starting to trip on his own words every now and then. Another year or two and he'll start his own decline.God damn the Democrats are actually going to fumble this election and let Trump win! The way I see it Trump can only win if Biden dies or noticeably regresses even closer to a vegetative state. The latter happened last night. That kind of showing will put serious doubts in the minds of the moderates who will be the ones who decide this election.
As a binary choice you've got the walking coma option or the slightly spritelier but insane, convicted criminal, wannabe dictator option.
The US is sleep walking into become a fascist state. Worrying times
What a disaster.
Why was he so quiet and passive? If he had this supposed "cold", they should have leaked it to the press BEFORE the debate. Now it looks silly.
Also why did they think all these pre-rehearsed lines were a good idea. Give him key talking points and let him speak frankly. With the "folks" and the "listen" and the "Here's the deal"
Where the feck was this guy? He would have likely won.
Why was he so quiet and passive? If he had this supposed "cold", they should have leaked it to the press BEFORE the debate. Now it looks silly.
Also why did they think all these pre-rehearsed lines were a good idea. Give him key talking points and let him speak frankly. With the "folks" and the "listen" and the "Here's the deal"
Where the feck was this guy? He would have likely won.
I can imagine it, dems replaces Biden with Newsom, next debate comes up and Trump goes something like "I beat Biden so badly that the Dems had to rush in and replace him with sleazy Gavin, you should thank me btw, i made you their nominee".
Not much you can respond to that.
Not much you can respond to that.
If they go with biden it's game over. At least try something. But it's the democrats, they will go with biden and lose.
Sorry, I meant with regards to November. As in, the non-Biden v Trump plan. It has to exist.
Well, Biden is probably toast then.
June debate might be somewhat forgotten, a debate a month before voting starts won't be.
Someone needs to tell him to not do this.
The question isn’t about whether he can finish his current term, it’s whether he can beat Trump in November and survive a 2nd term up to age 86. Last night answered that question for nearly everyone still on the fence.
They’re going to try and slide in Michelle or Gavin
Its 2024 and people are still obsessed about Michelle Obama.
She has said again, again again she isn't interested, lay it to rest already.
And Americans like their presidents with energy.
Are the Dems planning to do a "Weekend at Bernie's" for a whole 4 years? Its either that or they're desperate to lose the election in November.
Tbh, Trump's "low energy" jabs at Jeb Bush were funny.
It's amazing, I'm literally seeing no single voice in my little liberal medai eco-bubble not calling for him to step down.
And yet, he's coming out that it's all fine.
F*ck him. Joe Bader Biden indeed.
And yet, he's coming out that it's all fine.
F*ck him. Joe Bader Biden indeed.
Ignoring all the rush in any random celebrity as replacement that has stated time and again they will not run. Realistically with Biden continuing the campaign needs a course correction here. A lot of the problem last night to me was with the campaign knowing the setup they agreed too. They were over reliant on next day fact check articles. Which they should have known do not matter to the voters they need to reach. I mean the media message they pushed about all the lies immediately after is clear evidence. We know he lies, the media knows he lies. We also have learned that only when the interviewer/moderator call him out in real time does that matter. If they dont do it then Biden has too.
A couple times meekly saying you lie is not sufficient. So do another debate? I mean I said from the beginning there was no gain for the Biden camp debating a known liar. Had they said no debates we will take our message to the American people then campaign that way. You could get away with it and honestly not give trump this free platform to lie unchecked for 70 minutes.
But, now it cant be twisted that way. I still say if the team actually learns what they failed in the prep this time. You cant change his age or "looking old". You cant really do much with the stutter he has had his whole life and is well established. But there was no reason not to be more forceful getting his message across on the Issues he has the high hand on. Abortion, womens rights, pressing trump on his comments that Jan 6 criminals will be pardoned. His closing last night even with a cold it didnt have any of the material it should have to hammer home the felon I'm standing on stage with. He cannot be allowed to have potentially another SC Justice that will further erode the rights of you(the voters he is trying to get that are not MAGA).
At the end of the day media can call this whatever they want too. But, Biden voters were not going to be swayed to trump by that performance. So the "damage" was that the enthusiasm needed to get a record turnout was hit hard. Turnout was always going to be the strategy anyway. While still trying to make the case to the base especially.
A couple times meekly saying you lie is not sufficient. So do another debate? I mean I said from the beginning there was no gain for the Biden camp debating a known liar. Had they said no debates we will take our message to the American people then campaign that way. You could get away with it and honestly not give trump this free platform to lie unchecked for 70 minutes.
But, now it cant be twisted that way. I still say if the team actually learns what they failed in the prep this time. You cant change his age or "looking old". You cant really do much with the stutter he has had his whole life and is well established. But there was no reason not to be more forceful getting his message across on the Issues he has the high hand on. Abortion, womens rights, pressing trump on his comments that Jan 6 criminals will be pardoned. His closing last night even with a cold it didnt have any of the material it should have to hammer home the felon I'm standing on stage with. He cannot be allowed to have potentially another SC Justice that will further erode the rights of you(the voters he is trying to get that are not MAGA).
At the end of the day media can call this whatever they want too. But, Biden voters were not going to be swayed to trump by that performance. So the "damage" was that the enthusiasm needed to get a record turnout was hit hard. Turnout was always going to be the strategy anyway. While still trying to make the case to the base especially.
If he drops out, Newsom, Whitmer, Pete, and Harris will probably be in the mix.
He should read the room and know it’s time to drop out. if he can’t it’s cos he’s senile.
So, in both cases he should drop out.
Old man, you’ve had your time. This is not the moment to be selfish.
So, in both cases he should drop out.
Old man, you’ve had your time. This is not the moment to be selfish.
I agree, but I don't think it would be pretty if he stepped down now. I think he should, but I don't think it is without risks.
On the bolded part - I think the debate might also have pushed some settled voters over the fence.
He could just tell him the president retired gracefully (at 81) and tell him he should probably consider doing the same. Then point out that he can't because he needs to be president to avoid going to prison.
It doesn't fecking matter actually - Dems will lose no matter who they put up. This has been obvious for months.
If he drops out, someone needs to be anointed. It is too late I the process for the dems not to be unified over a candidate. A power struggle between Harris and Newsom would be terrible.
It's my first time ever seeing her speak. I immediately feel extremely confident in saying that she is utterly insufferable
.And if all this time its been down to her above anyone else to talk Joe out of running and walking away from the political spotlight, I can see how that has not even come close to happening.
Well that's the problem with cognitive decline. It doesn't just impact your ability to speak coherently in debates with convicted felons, but it also degrades your decision-making ability. He's not going to jump, because he doesn't know what's going on. The people close to him need to give him a push. Otherwise, it's President Trump, Project 2025 and the fastroad to fascism.
That’s the biggest load of _______ I ever heard
Number one; it’s way better than banking on him making up sentences on the fly AND recalling the details he’s talking about. Number one.
Number two escapes me at the moment.