He is smart, but not smart enough to fool anyone with intelligence that he believes anything he is saying.
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
He is smart, but not smart enough to fool anyone with intelligence that he believes anything he is saying.
A licence to vote that only applies to voters I don't trust to vote my way seems like a truly revolutionary idea
I linked you to a very specific type of literary test used in 1965, not a random one. All the questions were about the things you and Vivek want to ask, the only difference is that the 1965 one was targeted to black people and sometimes poor white people, while you and Vivek want to target young people. You have stated that this type of test isn't voter suppression, and in fact will even increase turnout, so why do you have a problem with the 1965 one? Do you not want black people and poor white people to vote?
Con artist in other words
I doubt both Democrats / Republicans really care about the moral behind many hot topics such as LGBT, Abortion, etc.
For them it's a battle of votes, the Democrats gets vote by allowing Immigrants in, the Republican by keeping what they have, suppressing votes, and maybe... preventing abortion so that their shrinking voters population can populate more. I also don't think Biden cares too much about immigrants as long as they can come, and vote for Democrats in the future.
Literally nobody in both parties cares about average American and their wellbeing.
For them it's a battle of votes, the Democrats gets vote by allowing Immigrants in, the Republican by keeping what they have, suppressing votes, and maybe... preventing abortion so that their shrinking voters population can populate more. I also don't think Biden cares too much about immigrants as long as they can come, and vote for Democrats in the future.
Literally nobody in both parties cares about average American and their wellbeing.
I am not sure in what way would Vivek or any of the R-candidates tackle the biggest issues the US is facing in terms poverty, wealth disparity, affordability and polarization.
Vivek's stance on taxes will only make the rich richer and the unprivileged poorer worsening the already deep gap.
Trickle down economics only makes the rich/privileged richer and the rest poorer.
From Wiki: Ramaswamy has declared that he wants a flat 12.5% tax rate, covering all things from income, property, capital gains, to sales and inheritance tax. He has also indicated that he favors the abolition of the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[27]
Fyi, I am a pro-business centrist myself. I believe in a policy of reducing corporate taxes while simultaneously increasing personal taxes and capital gains at higher income tax brackets is needed to tackle income gap.
I encourage keeping corporate taxes low to encourage investment and innovation.
At the same time, a significant increase in marginal tax rate on high income, hefty inheritance tax (80%), high taxes on dividends and capital gains along with closing all personal tax loopholes is the only way to redistribute wealth. Plus a tax on any personal borrowing collateralized by stock/business assets other than your primary mortgage.
Plus a separate new VAT on luxury products (50%). This is because there's no wealth transfer when rich person spend their money on buying chanel or birkin bags.
The government's job is to then reinvest taxes into education, trade schools, healthcare and infrastructure.
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Jan 6th and the election deniers shameful attack on the capital is a direct result of Trump's rabble rousing efforts post election and false media narrative from FOX - this is an undeniable fact. But what is missed out is the subtlety that there was a simmering angst amidst the republican base that there was a concerted effort from social media platforms to abuse trump's re-election bid through selective censorship, For example, He cites social media's suppression of the Hunter-Biden laptop news on the verge of election (later turned out to be true) would have been a needle mover in a closely contested election as a sign of doubts over election integrity.
There was a growing suspicion towards election process amongst conservative base as they were fed misinformation regarding mail-in ballots, voter id etc. Vivek feels that not addressing this conservative angst/suspicion and brushing it all as some kind of rabid insurrection of the extreme right wing and other caricature versions of it is the fundamental cause of growing divisiveness in the country. He feels he will remove doubts regarding election interference from Social media, declare a national holiday on voting day, increase polling booths, mandate voter ID requirements etc., to remove any doubts about election from the conservative base. These existing doubts were abused by Trump to trigger the insurrection.
Now unlike Pence and others on the stage, who talk only about certifying the election thus making the republican base look life fools, Vivek explains why there was an underlying suspicion in the republican base towards election, (how it was abused by Trump - he says bad judgement from Trump to not hurt the Maga Cult) and if he was a vice president how as a leader of the senate he would have worked hard to first remove these doubts by addressing the underlying concerns regarding the voting process by pushing policy changes and only after getting those policies approved by the president get the election certified. In effect, he understood that just saying Pence certifying the election was the right thing, would have thrown all the election concerns of the republican base as immaterial and reduced it all to Trumps stupid claims of election fraud. Instead, he redirects the attention towards election interference in the form of selective censorship by social media. This is the gist of it.
If I go about explaining every video thrown here, it will take hours, but I can see the sense in his answers. He is in my opinion fighting two elections. The harder one is to beat the Maga cult. How he maneuvers through these political assaults from the left wing media while still trying to win the Maga Base has been an absolute joy to watch. He is a smart cookie.
I don't want to be too harsh on you not knowing your personal circumstance, but with all due respect you have got this completely wrong. The civic test he is recommending the youngsters age 18-25 is currently taken by 1000s of immigrants to gain voter rights and has nothing to do with any of the voter suppressing Jim Crow Laws. Don't bring the token 'poor white people' phrase to sound equitable. Any 18 year should be able to pass this with ease and if not they have an option to join first responder service. If they are not interested in either they can wait till 25 to vote.
The civics test for immigrants is like this one, correct? https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/questions-and-answers/100q.pdf
Is there a single justifiable reason this should only apply to young voters? Laws change, situations change which imply that the test would too. So older voters knowledge would be out of date. So they need to take it too?
And who gets to right it? On the chapter about the 46th presidency, who does it say won?
Surely if this civic test is that revolutionary a solution, we would have no objection if every eligible, registered voters all take it before every presidential election? One test to refresh your knowledge every 4 years surely wouldnt stand in the way of your patriotism?
How is he '100% better than Biden?'
Please get granular with your answer.
Still waiting on those ad hominem examples as well as your sourcing regarding your ballot by mail claims.
e - forgot to ask, where do you stand on Vivek's discussion about those Democratic lawmakers who are akin to KKK grand wizards?
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How likely is the recent CNN "fact check" on the Biden vs Trump debate in 2020 to have an impact on voting? They basically admitted Biden wasn't speaking the truth, without accusing him of lying, when it came to the discussion in the debate in Hunter making money from energy deals with China and Ukraine. Is the Hunter thing in total likely to impact the re-election?
Nobody watches CNN anymore, so won't matter either way.
As for Hunter, i doubt it impacts much, republicans screamed "Hunter!!" from the top of their lungs and still had a very bad midterms.
Given the amount of morons in your country across the age spectrum, why should this test be limited to young people?
Because that demographic leans left and we can’t be having that.
Regardless of the rights/wrongs of a civic test, why is anyone over 25 exempt from it?
You should definitely pass a civics test before you're allowd to vote.
Or better yet, maybe US democracy can implement the newbie system from the caf.
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Because young voters skew heavily Democrat. If you made it a requirement across all ages groups, it wouldn't benefit the Republicans - arguably it would hurt them.
Better yet. No one should be allowed to vote and a select few people with sufficient knowledge of civics, philosphy and other smart stuff will just decide the best way forward.
I always knew philosopher kings and benevolent dictators reign supreme, we are going Ancient Greek baby.
Where's the logic in thinking someone who's 20 is not capable of voting, but magically at 25 it's alright
The question of voting for me has always been very simple, if you were born in a country and you're old enough to pay taxes, you get to vote.
The question of voting for me has always been very simple, if you were born in a country and you're old enough to pay taxes, you get to vote.
I agree completely. If you are a tax paying citizen you should be allowed to vote, and with the way Republicans are stripping away child labor laws we will soon need to let anyone over 12 vote.Where's the logic in thinking someone who's 20 is not capable of voting, but magically at 25 it's alright
The question of voting for me has always been very simple, if you were born in a country and you're old enough to pay taxes, you get to vote.
-Voting tests are a great idea!
-No, it's a very bad one, and politically motivated.
-But the one proposing it is not a politician.
-Yes he is, he is running for president representing one of the two biggest establishment parties.
-Nevermind that, the idea is revolutionary!
-No it isn't, it has been done before. Here's a specific example from the Jim Crow law.
-You know what? You're using Ad Hominem. You're not worth discussing with. I'll now proceed to rinse and repeat.
We should know by now, shouldn't we?
-No, it's a very bad one, and politically motivated.
-But the one proposing it is not a politician.
-Yes he is, he is running for president representing one of the two biggest establishment parties.
-Nevermind that, the idea is revolutionary!
-No it isn't, it has been done before. Here's a specific example from the Jim Crow law.
-You know what? You're using Ad Hominem. You're not worth discussing with. I'll now proceed to rinse and repeat.
We should know by now, shouldn't we?
Actually we should make this civic test mandatory for anyone wanting to vote, regardless of age. Your contribution to this thread represents an apt rationale for this.
Does any 'leader' ever?
These "Jim Crow Laws" as many are ridiculously spouting here is currently mandated to close to a million immigrants each year in order to gain voting rights in US. Is it voter suppression then? Wow.. Common guys have some sense of realism.. I don't have all the time in the world to waste it on educating kids here in the cafe.
Vivek is very clear that he would prefer all age groups to take these tests. but is it practical? It has to start at the age of voting inception and he would extend it to all age groups (like a driver's license test). The 18-25 age group is the least voting age group and is hardly significant in swinging the electorate unless their participation numbers drastically increase. It is his belief that it will educate the voters. If the voters are educated it is all the more likely they should vote for the right candidate over partisan media influencers. This discourse is devoid of any meaningful conversation only echo chambers of small minded people, but then this is a football forum, hard to expect much.
Vivek has said many BS partisan things just to gain the votes of a republican base, in my opinion this is not one of them. The underlying theme of last two election has been to shout at election integrity post election. Happened once Trump won 2016 (it was spinned differently as it happened for trump) and the same when Biden won 2020. Doesn't bode well for us. With misinformation spreading like wild fire people are pushed into media echo chambers to the point any meaningful conversation to reform the election process to ensure informed voters and election integrity will be instantly reduced to Jim Crow Laws and such is the trauma of the past which is holding us moving forward in future. Yes most of the election reform laws proposed are just republican attempts at voter suppression in the garb of reforms and they should be rejected outright. But there is an underlying lack of faith with the election process particularly based on social media influence by bad faith actors both inside and outside the country which needs addressing. Vivek has boldly proposed one such law to create more informed voters particularly amongst young voters. Analyze it, criticize it to death sure but don't be lazy to not even listen to the other persons view. With this I will rest my case.
Vivek is very clear that he would prefer all age groups to take these tests. but is it practical? It has to start at the age of voting inception and he would extend it to all age groups (like a driver's license test). The 18-25 age group is the least voting age group and is hardly significant in swinging the electorate unless their participation numbers drastically increase. It is his belief that it will educate the voters. If the voters are educated it is all the more likely they should vote for the right candidate over partisan media influencers. This discourse is devoid of any meaningful conversation only echo chambers of small minded people, but then this is a football forum, hard to expect much.
I answered your question in detail. What do you do... jump to something else.. I mean what's the point. Shouting fancy one-liners parroting media narratives and vain idealism is not going to help. Open up. Think.
Vivek has said many BS partisan things just to gain the votes of a republican base, in my opinion this is not one of them. The underlying theme of last two election has been to shout at election integrity post election. Happened once Trump won 2016 (it was spinned differently as it happened for trump) and the same when Biden won 2020. Doesn't bode well for us. With misinformation spreading like wild fire people are pushed into media echo chambers to the point any meaningful conversation to reform the election process to ensure informed voters and election integrity will be instantly reduced to Jim Crow Laws and such is the trauma of the past which is holding us moving forward in future. Yes most of the election reform laws proposed are just republican attempts at voter suppression in the garb of reforms and they should be rejected outright. But there is an underlying lack of faith with the election process particularly based on social media influence by bad faith actors both inside and outside the country which needs addressing. Vivek has boldly proposed one such law to create more informed voters particularly amongst young voters. Analyze it, criticize it to death sure but don't be lazy to not even listen to the other persons view. With this I will rest my case.
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Yeah maybe, but it's still an easy choice when one side is actively doing evil stuff and the other side is sometimes trying not to.
Well yeah. You have a presidential campaign to run.
That's not his plan though. His plan says his Civic Duty Voting scheme goes away at age 25 because that's the age cut off for men to register for the draft.
RU Vivek's Campaign Manager by any chance?
It's his plans for now. Ideally if this works, he would like to extend it to all age group. He has talked a lot about this I think in Mikhaila's podcast (not sure).
Yes, Because Cafe is the collection of greatest minds who can truly turn this election.
He can present all the plans he wants, he has zero chance of winning.
What are you on about? You literally responded to that post first up top and then again here. I did not jump to anything. As for your answer, in both posts..... I mean....wtf? On the one hand it's totally fine that Vivek spouts "many BS partisan things just to gain the votes of the republican base" but on the other hand: " there is an underlying lack of faith with the election process particularly based on social media influence by bad faith actors both inside and outside the country which needs addressing" I mean... seriously? You don't see the absolute pile of contradictory shit you are spouting.
So Vivek has spouted many BS partisan things to gain votes but this revolutionary idea about a civic test in order to vote is not one of them because….?
No need for so much anger. I hope I have answered you satisfactorily on the VP election ratification. As for election interference through media its an American thing, not something partisan. Russia and Trump collusion 2016, Big Tech firms censoring Hunter Biden news on their platforms 2020. There are also claims of active interference from China and the list will keep growing. So if you think the election interference is raised as a concern only amongst the Republican base to win their votes that's pretty myopic. If Trump wins again, I am certain majority of the democrats will jump out shouting election interference, voting suppression and collusion. Its happening because its not beyond reason that bad faith actors can influence US elections and this should be ironed out prior to the next election. I would like to hear more from presidential candidates talk about restoring faith in elections (no matter who wins).
Gov. Ron DeSantis jeered as Jacksonville community calls for action in wake of hate crime
Show up at the vigil like he hasn't spent all year appeasing to white supremacists with his anti "woke" nonsense. Like he didn't just spend weeks defending racist curriculum changes in his state. Firing black DAs that were elected by the people. Sure lets roll in and get some campaign pics with these black people.
Vivek is doing what trumo did back in the day. That they (we) talk about him even with his stupid policies (Mexico to pay for the wall) . Might not grant him the nomination if trump gets in prison, but surely he is second currently on the options
Right, so how exactly is he going to go about doing this plan?