2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

KirkDuyt said:
Trump being old or going senile won't hurt him. Whether he makes sense or not is completely irrelevant to him or hks base. And neither is assaulting people are being a criminal.

It's actually almost brilljant how they've somehow created a teflon monster out of a complete and utter moron without any competences whatsoever.
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It also seems a lot of the republicans just vote for their party, regardless of the nominee. Where as on the Democrats side there are so many excuses for why some of them aren't going to vote or are dragging their heels to vote due to it being Kamala. It absolutely boggles my mind that undecideds or people left of centre will see a republican party that have overseen the removal of women's rights, public plans to further constrain human rights especially for minorities as well as seeing that they will be worse for both Palestine and Ukraine, and yet despite seeing that you actually have people going "I don't think Kamala is a strong interviewer, the Democrats haven't done enough to get my vote etc etc". I get it if you are a white male in the US as you'll likely be fine either way, however, any minority whether in race, gender, sexuality who votes for Republicans or decide not to vote despite seeing the blatant plans of the republican party are to me a bunch of turkeys choosing to either vote for thanksgiving or indirectly allowing thanksgiving through not supporting the left.
 
ManUtd1999 said:
No, no mail from Clark yet. They start reporting today.

Washoe county is the bellwether. So far looking good for Harris, but very early.

Also: expect Republicans to dominate in-person voting, and Democrats to dominate voting by mail. That’s typically the pattern there.
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It’s a good day for Reps, no two ways about it regardless of, as you said, no mail. Record turnout and they lead by 18 points, ~ 5k votes.
 
nimic said:
The problem with Silver is his punditry. He was perfectly fine as just a guy with a model, but he wanted to be more. It's hard to say what he is now, he's much less prominent after leaving 538.
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The problem with his punditry is that he’s let it become personal and snide comments to certain sections of the political sphere loses the impression of objectivity.

At the end of the day beyond the raw data and into his interpretation comes his own opinion and biases and if he’s showing himself to have beef with one side then people aren’t going to believe his analysis.
 
flameinthesun said:
It also seems a lot of the republicans just vote for their party, regardless of the nominee. Where as on the Democrats side there are so many excuses for why some of them aren't going to vote or are dragging their heels to vote due to it being Kamala. It absolutely boggles my mind that undecideds or people left of centre will see a republican party that have overseen the removal of women's rights, public plans to further constrain human rights especially for minorities as well as seeing that they will be worse for both Palestine and Ukraine, and yet despite seeing that you actually have people going "I don't think Kamala is a strong interviewer, the Democrats haven't done enough to get my vote etc etc". I get it if you are a white male in the US as you'll likely be fine either way, however, any minority whether in race, gender, sexuality who votes for Republicans or decide not to vote despite seeing the blatant plans of the republican party are to me a bunch of turkeys choosing to either vote for thanksgiving or indirectly allowing thanksgiving through not supporting the left.
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It's not surprising that some become detached from the whole thing when the side that pretends to be the decent one puts zero value on the existence of their people.

When I hear Kamala give that answer, my first thought isn't that she's a weak interviewer, it's that she's a psychopath who isn't that far away from any white supremacist.
 
Idxomer said:
It's not surprising that some become detached from the whole thing when the side that pretends to be the decent one puts zero value on the existence of their people.

When I hear Kamala give that answer, my first thought isn't that she's a weak interviewer, it's that she's a psychopath who isn't that far away from any white supremacist.
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I 100% understand people being detached and desensitised, I get it. However, to recognise you are detached and yet still understand the potential consequences of a republican win, to then choose to abstain or actively try to harm the democrats campaign is where people lose me. For example, your example, how do you equate Kamala to a white supremacist? How do people see the republican platform and the democratic platform and think there is not much difference between the two when one is actively, in broad daylight, trying to reverse certain human rights. The only demographic who I can understand not seeing that much difference between the two would be white males. Again, for me anyone who is part of a minority group and decides to abstain or vote for the republican ticket is actively doing themselves harm. Through a president's term you put pressure on them, but when its time to be counted you need to stand up.
 
Crazy shit.

Police Snipers and Drone Patrols: the New Reality for U.S. Election Workers
“You’d have to be a psychopath to say you enjoy this,” said Maricopa County’s top election official for voting by mail, Stephen Richer, a Republican. The building has added metal detectors and armed guards. On Election Day, as workers tabulate ballots behind new fencing and concrete barriers, drones will patrol the skies overhead, police snipers will perch on rooftops and mounted patrols will stand ready.

Across the state, election workers have gone through active-shooter drills and learned to barricade themselves or wield fire hoses to repel armed mobs. At the ready are trauma kits containing tourniquets and bandages designed to pack chest wounds and stanch serious bleeding.
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In Colorado, death threats from election deniers have led some county clerks and election officials to have bulletproof vests on hand. Nationwide, many election offices are stockpiling Narcan, a drug used to reverse opioid overdose, after some received ballot envelopes last November containing white powder with traces of fentanyl.
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https://www.wsj.com/politics/electi...tion-worker-threats-a4ebf3a3?mod=hp_lead_pos7
 
Only one side caused this. Only one side is perpetuating it.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:


Jesus Christ. I mostly hate these little voxpop stitch ups. But the stupidity of Trump voters is astounding.
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You should look up Jordan Klepper (The Daily Show) Fingers the Pulse. He does this interviews often during election time. It’s hilarious but also scary how ignorant and stupid these people are.
 
flameinthesun said:
any minority whether in race, gender, sexuality who votes for Republicans or decide not to vote despite seeing the blatant plans of the republican party are to me a bunch of turkeys choosing to either vote for thanksgiving or indirectly allowing thanksgiving through not supporting the left.
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I remember in 2017 I was on a drive to Virginia, and the driver and his father, both minorities, were arguing about the Trump presidency. The father actually had positive expectations and was skeptical that 'the Muslim ban' would be extended to others; the son disagreed. I thought the father was being naive, too.

But I'm pretty sure both these guys are doing fine. They were not turned into the thanksgiving turkey.
 
flameinthesun said:
I 100% understand people being detached and desensitised, I get it. However, to recognise you are detached and yet still understand the potential consequences of a republican win, to then choose to abstain or actively try to harm the democrats campaign is where people lose me. For example, your example, how do you equate Kamala to a white supremacist? How do people see the republican platform and the democratic platform and think there is not much difference between the two when one is actively, in broad daylight, trying to reverse certain human rights. The only demographic who I can understand not seeing that much difference between the two would be white males. Again, for me anyone who is part of a minority group and decides to abstain or vote for the republican ticket is actively doing themselves harm. Through a president's term you put pressure on them, but when its time to be counted you need to stand up.
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Again, how can arab/Muslim minorities see this distinction when over the last year it's been clear to them that their lives don't have any real value to these people? It may not be completely rational but abstaining or voting 3rd part is actually very understandable if you're not white.

The Harris campaign has realized that this group can see that which is why they have been cosying up to the likes of Cheney and going far more aggressively after "moderate" Republicans. In her answer, she puts the existence of one group of people way above another one and it's not the first time she or Walz have done that. That's not taking into account the blatant lies that she also keeps repeating like a puppet.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Thomas is 76, Alito is 74, Roberts is 70. There’s a decent shot that if Harris wins and manages 2 terms, she can replace one of them. Failing that, Sotomayor is 70, if you can replace her for one in their 50s, that would count for something as well, looking at Barrett and Kavanaugh.
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If the GOP control both houses won't they just stall/find way to deny like when they stole a nomination from Obama?

Granted, it would be difficult to see the GOP controlling both houses for a duration of two presidential terms.
 
How Republican Billionaires Learned to Love Trump Again
“They know how transactional he is,” the attendee told me. “They’re hoping to have some influence over the course of appointments and therefore the direction of his Administration.”
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“A lot of the donors have just come to the conclusion that, when you add it all up, the risks with Trump are behavioral—personal behavior and what he says—versus the policies,” the attendee at the Fifth Avenue fund-raiser told me. It was a “rationalization” adopted by “even those who were initially very put off, very alienated, by his behavior at the end of his Presidency.”
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https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...ican-billionaires-learned-to-love-trump-again
 

Musk to give away $1m per day to Pennsylvania voters​

Tech billionaire Elon Musk has said he will give away $1m (£766,000) a day to a registered voter in the key swing state of Pennsylvania until the US presidential election in November.

The winner will be chosen at random from those who sign a pro-constitution petition by Musk’s campaign group AmericaPAC which he set up to support Republican nominee Donald Trump's bid to return to the White House.

The first lottery-style cheque was given away to a surprised-looking attendee at a town hall event on Saturday night.

The giveaway will effectively help to encourage potential Trump voters to engage in the campaign during the tense final weeks of the presidential race ahead of the vote on 5 November.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg78ljxn8g7o

It is unreal that this is legal.
 
The Very Real Scenario Where Trump Loses and Takes Power Anyway
Dozens of interviews with people deeply familiar or involved with the election process point to a clear consensus: Not only could Trump make a second attempt at overturning an election he loses, he and his allies are already laying the groundwork.

“The threat remains,” said Tim Heaphy, who led the investigation into Trump’s election subversion efforts for the House’s Jan. 6 select committee.
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https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/10/20/trump-overturn-2024-election-plan-00184103
 
dumbo said:
My main point is that telling people who have lost so much who they should or should not be voting for, particularly when it benefits those who are directly responsible for that which has been lost, is not something that I agree with doing. The calculation is not lost on most of them. Whether their position is logically consistent, pragmatic, less optimal in the longterm etc. is moot.

The second point is feck Kamala Harris, just because.
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It's a terrible voting system - not just in the sense that it doesn't provide real choice and you might often dislike your voting decision (I know I do), but also because it reduces elections to a chess game on wedge issues. If there's more choice, parties and candidates can profile themselves more sensibly, political discourse and ideas can breathe, and you can feel like people really stand for something. (Not always, but much more.) But US federal elections, and same in countries with similar systems (yes, including Canada), mostly seem a game around polls and how to affect them. That's why this thread is also a borefest of numbers and potshots, with barely any political discussion - which then of course also immediately gets shut down with 'yeah but Trump'.
 
Frosty said:

Musk to give away $1m per day to Pennsylvania voters​

Tech billionaire Elon Musk has said he will give away $1m (£766,000) a day to a registered voter in the key swing state of Pennsylvania until the US presidential election in November.

The winner will be chosen at random from those who sign a pro-constitution petition by Musk’s campaign group AmericaPAC which he set up to support Republican nominee Donald Trump's bid to return to the White House.

The first lottery-style cheque was given away to a surprised-looking attendee at a town hall event on Saturday night.

The giveaway will effectively help to encourage potential Trump voters to engage in the campaign during the tense final weeks of the presidential race ahead of the vote on 5 November.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg78ljxn8g7o

It is unreal that this is legal.
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Did some states or counties make it illegal to hand out water and food to people waiting hours to vote back in 2020 or am I misremembering things?
 
flameinthesun said:
I 100% understand people being detached and desensitised, I get it. However, to recognise you are detached and yet still understand the potential consequences of a republican win, to then choose to abstain or actively try to harm the democrats campaign is where people lose me. For example, your example, how do you equate Kamala to a white supremacist? How do people see the republican platform and the democratic platform and think there is not much difference between the two when one is actively, in broad daylight, trying to reverse certain human rights. The only demographic who I can understand not seeing that much difference between the two would be white males. Again, for me anyone who is part of a minority group and decides to abstain or vote for the republican ticket is actively doing themselves harm. Through a president's term you put pressure on them, but when its time to be counted you need to stand up.
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But if you play along and just vote Democratic again, then what changes? How will it make politcians think they might have to address on your actual priorities or inch your way more?

You can't just be held hostage by the system forever.
 
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Cheimoon said:
But if you play along and just vote Democratic again, then what changes? How will it make politcians think they might have to address on your actual priorities or in h your way more?

You can't just be held hostage by the system forever.
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Things changes for the worse, thats for sure.

Did you not see how this went in 2016? The "lets punish dems by staying home/vote for Trump!"-crowd got rewarded with a hostile supreme court, that takes away right after right.

Its common sense, if you live in US and don't want to see all rights rolled back to where they were in the 19th century, you vote democrat.
 
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Cheimoon said:
But if you play along and just vote Democratic again, then what changes? How will it make politcians think they might have to address on your actual priorities or in h your way more?

You can't just be held hostage by the system forever.
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But isn't Trump the X-factor here? I don't think the Dems could play the "this is all existential" card against a Romney-esque opponent.
 
Morty_ said:
Things changes for the worse, thats for sure.

Did you not see how this went in 2016? The "lets punish dems by staying home/vote for Trump!"-crowd got rewarded with a hostile supreme court, that takes away right after right.

Its common sense, if you live in US and don't want to see all rights rolled back to where they were in the 19th century, you vote cemocrat.
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Yep, anyone who decides not to vote Harris deserves absolutely everything the next Trump administration does to them. Absolutely everything.
 
Frosty said:

Musk to give away $1m per day to Pennsylvania voters​

Tech billionaire Elon Musk has said he will give away $1m (£766,000) a day to a registered voter in the key swing state of Pennsylvania until the US presidential election in November.

The winner will be chosen at random from those who sign a pro-constitution petition by Musk’s campaign group AmericaPAC which he set up to support Republican nominee Donald Trump's bid to return to the White House.

The first lottery-style cheque was given away to a surprised-looking attendee at a town hall event on Saturday night.

The giveaway will effectively help to encourage potential Trump voters to engage in the campaign during the tense final weeks of the presidential race ahead of the vote on 5 November.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg78ljxn8g7o

It is unreal that this is legal.
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Surely there has to be scrutiny on this? This mofo will pay for anything but taxes.
 
Morty_ said:
Things changes for the worse, thats for sure.

Did you not see how this went in 2016? The "lets punish dems by staying home/vote for Trump!"-crowd got rewarded with a hostile supreme court, that takes away right after right.

Its common sense, if you live in US and don't want to see all rights rolled back to where they were in the 19th century, you vote cemocrat.
Click to expand...

VorZakone said:
But isn't Trump the X-factor here? I don't think the Dems could play the "this is all existential" card against a Romney-esque opponent.
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It's the same in Canada (even if there are more parties), and I'll likely vote for a party I don't much like to prevent the party I really don't like to win my riding. So I do this as well, but I see how it keeps things stuck and I respect those that make the other choice.
 
Morty_ said:
Things changes for the worse, thats for sure.

Did you not see how this went in 2016? The "lets punish dems by staying home/vote for Trump!"-crowd got rewarded with a hostile supreme court, that takes away right after right.
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I'm guessing Arab/Muslim voters do not feel they were rewarded after their 2020 vote.
 
Cheimoon said:
But if you play along and just vote Democratic again, then what changes? How will it make politcians think they might have to address on your actual priorities or in h your way more?

You can't just be held hostage by the system forever.
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100% I agree, whoch is why inbetween elections you need to find a way to put as much pressure as possible on the respective party. However, when it comes to the election and ypur choice is between the democrats and project 2025, its a pretty clear choice.
 
Idxomer said:
Again, how can arab/Muslim minorities see this distinction when over the last year it's been clear to them that their lives don't have any real value to these people? It may not be completely rational but abstaining or voting 3rd part is actually very understandable if you're not white.

The Harris campaign has realized that this group can see that which is why they have been cosying up to the likes of Cheney and going far more aggressively after "moderate" Republicans. In her answer, she puts the existence of one group of people way above another one and it's not the first time she or Walz have done that. That's not taking into account the blatant lies that she also keeps repeating like a puppet.
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Its a simple question will life be worse for arab/muslim minorities in the US under the democrats or republicans. To me its a pretty easy question to answer.
 
IncyWincySpider said:
Yep, anyone who decides not to vote Harris deserves absolutely everything the next Trump administration does to them. Absolutely everything.
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If you step outside the narrow world of algorithmically driven narratives on social media, I would imagine most ordinary people who don't spend their days online stewing about politics, won't see any changes in their day to day lives.
 
Raoul said:
If you step outside the narrow world of algorithmically driven narratives on social media, I would imagine most ordinary people who don't spend their days online stewing about politics, won't see any changes in their day to day lives.
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If he forces through a peace deal on Putin’s terms, we’re all gonna feel the consequences of that eventually. If he follows through with his blanket tariffs, every American will feel that.
 
Jev said:
If he forces through a peace deal on Putin’s terms, we’re all gonna feel the consequences of that eventually.
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Its possible, although Russia has been so badly damaged by all of this that Putin may well run out of time (as in die of old age or otherwise) before he can launch WW3 against NATO.
 
Jev said:
If he forces through a peace deal on Putin’s terms, we’re all gonna feel the consequences of that eventually. If he follows through with his blanket tariffs, every American will feel that.
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We'll quite likely feel that in Europe too.
 
Raoul said:
If you step outside the narrow world of algorithmically driven narratives on social media, I would imagine most ordinary people who don't spend their days online stewing about politics, won't see any changes in their day to day lives.
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Well, that wasn't true last time was it. Roe V Wade was overturned.
 
Raoul said:
That happend during Biden's term. And further, it’s not something a vast majority of voters are affected by, especially given that abortion is still legal in a large swath of the country.
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That’s rather disingenuous. It was a direct result of Trump.
 
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