good parallel
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
Dafaq no it’s not. I have no problem voting for someone like John McCain (RIP) or Mitt Romney. Someone sane is what I’m looking for. Don’t care which side they are on. There is a vast difference between the far left and the far right. I would vote for the former hands down any day of the week.
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Yeah what’s wrong with that?
Well yeah that’s who they are voting for now.
Some good analysis on Pennsylvania in this thread.
This would only be true if one was applying both to the same question, which isn't what is happening here.
It sounds like you are trying to claim people can only ever apply one and only theoretical moral system to every single decision in their lives which is clearly nonsensical and pretty what zero people ever do.
It's clearly compatible to answer one question (Is it a moral choice for me to vote?) using the universality principle and to answer a different question (who should I vote for?) based on utilitarianism.
This simply isn't how things work in reality. The idea that the only time a voter ever gains utility from winning an election is if the vote is decided by a single vote is also clearly nonsensical. As I already said, clearly when people vote and their candidate wins they do gain utility, even if its not decided by a single vote because they share in the outcome of winning. Making the decision how to vote is based on the utility someone might believed would be gained by their candidate winning.
How many people do you actually believe base every choice in their life on one single moral system? Even religious people I know don't actually follow every single moral rule in their religious system let alone secular people. Reality is, the vast (probably 99%+) majority of people use different moral system for different questions and aspects of their lives and personally I see nothing wrong with that as no moral system is perfect for every instance. I'll cite Bernard Williams here as he believed human experience was simply too complex to be captured by any single systematic moral theory, which I agree with.
You're not understanding what I'm saying, let's just drop it.
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Of course, Diaper Don wouldn't know what this is, it's the crypto bro staffers around him who wrote this, probably at the urging of Musk.
Thanks.
Naa my point was both parties got there hardcore supporters who would never vote for the other side no matter what.
Guys who would never vote Republican (and rightly so)
Both parties have hardcore supporters for sure, but I'd still say that if you go to the far right they are definitely voting for Trump, whereas if you go to the far left they might be voting for Harris. A significant share of the people on the far left want something entirely different, so won't vote for a Democrat out of principle, and do not see it as a step in the right direction towards their goals.
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.
Yeah, that'd be my personal attitude as well, if I was a US voter. Am I disgusted by how the Biden administration has handled Israel/Gaza? Absolutely. But I'd still want to do what I can to not have that man lead the country, and be the de facto leader of the Western world. He is that disgusting to me. He shouldn't be elected to a city council, let alone the presidency.
But that's just my personal opinion. Let's not reignite that whole discussion
Yeah, that'd be my personal attitude as well, if I was a US voter. Am I disgusted by how the Biden administration has handled Israel/Gaza? Absolutely. But I'd still want to do what I can to not have that man lead the country, and be the de facto leader of the Western world. He is that disgusting to me. He shouldn't be elected to a city council, let alone the presidency.
But that's just my personal opinion. Let's not reignite that whole discussion
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, every man and his dog (they are eating the dogs!!) that pay an ounce of attention to the US knows all about Trump by now - there is no need for us to make an essay about why he is so dangerous. Which is why I am so exasperated when I hear people refusing to cast a vote to try to stop him. It's so obvious, man.
You're reigniting that whole discussion even while replying to him asking you to not reignite that whole discussion 
You're reigniting that whole discussion even while replying to him asking you to not reignite that whole discussion
Only if people like you continue to reply to it
Only if people like you continue to reply to it
That's your problem, not mine.
"The most dangerous person ever" is an absolutely preposterous statement.
Not the "The most dangerous person ever" in the history of the world, but "The most dangerous person to this country ever".
It's between Trump and Genghis Khan.
I would be surprised if a second Trump term leads to something more dangerous than the American civil war, but I guess you never know.
Think it’ll lead to a civil war irrespective.
One of my deranged Trump stan relative (Indian-Muslim go figure) asked my brother to stock up on two weeks of groceries for the election cause it’s going down.
If Trump loses these lunatics will try to pull another Jan 6
What does he like about Trump?
500 000 - 750 000 is often cited as an estimate for the death toll during the American Civil War, from a population of 18.5 million. January 6th lead to 1-5 deaths, out of a population of 332 million.
I'd say the civil war was more dangerous.
If Trump wins, I doubt it will lead to more than normal protests, whereas there will probably be some kind of January 6th type event, if Harris wins. It wouldn’t surprise me at all.
People have no sense of perspective about the civil war.
in 1858 the slave population were worth $3bn, while all the textile industry, all the railroads, all the factories in the North were worth a combined $2.2bn, that's before taking into account the racism, the social hierarchy born out of that racism, and the simmering resentment in the North about the delayed western expansion due to the debate over the legality of slavery in new territories.
Let's just assume that the social tension nowadays is as high as it was during the antebellum years (it's not, politicians attempted murder on each other on the Senate chamber), we are still left with the economic question, no presidential candidate from either party will ever threaten to wipe out more than half the NASDAQ/S&P listed companies assets. Nor is there a homogenous, regional bloc of property holders with the combined net worth and social influence of the slave holders class to spearhead such schisms. The danger from the right wont manifest in a civil war, they laid out the playbook in print for us, it's taking all the institutions under their control, academia, business, legislative, judicial, media, and establishing a Christofascist ethno state.
in 1858 the slave population were worth $3bn, while all the textile industry, all the railroads, all the factories in the North were worth a combined $2.2bn, that's before taking into account the racism, the social hierarchy born out of that racism, and the simmering resentment in the North about the delayed western expansion due to the debate over the legality of slavery in new territories.
Let's just assume that the social tension nowadays is as high as it was during the antebellum years (it's not, politicians attempted murder on each other on the Senate chamber), we are still left with the economic question, no presidential candidate from either party will ever threaten to wipe out more than half the NASDAQ/S&P listed companies assets. Nor is there a homogenous, regional bloc of property holders with the combined net worth and social influence of the slave holders class to spearhead such schisms. The danger from the right wont manifest in a civil war, they laid out the playbook in print for us, it's taking all the institutions under their control, academia, business, legislative, judicial, media, and establishing a Christofascist ethno state.
Religious so very anti-LGBTQ+ and think Democrats are brainwashing children.
2nd generation immigrant hence all about pulling the ladder up (very common sentiment among Indian diaspora) believes America is taking in too many immigrants.
I never said anything about Civil war being less dangerous? Neither did I mention anything about the American Civil War?
If Trump loses I could see red states sort of “rebelling” and refusing to accept the election decision.
Who knows where y’all go from there.
No, which is why I included the quote before, because that was the topic you replied to. Just thought I'd add to that, it wasn't meant as a direct reply or a rebuttal to what you said.
Ah got it makes sense
I like the idea of Americans being too fat to engage in civil war
America's civil war will be played in some esport event.
since the convention and particularly since the debate, the numbers, and, in my view, the vibes, have collapsed. she's unveiled her campaign strategy and it doesn't seem to be going well at all. nor is there any good news for her from the administration. she erased a massive deficit when becoming the nominee and very quickly made it a lead in her first weeks, the change in messaging since then seems to have erased that lead fully.
3-4 weeks ago i thought she would win, i now think she will lose.
Saw some analyst saying that the Democratic hope is on abortion being a key turnout issue for them.
Tbh I'm just not sure what else she can do. If the prospect of a second Trump term, the issue of abortion, the fact the economy is clearly improving - if none of that is enough to get enough voters out than America is just doomed to its idiocy. People say she's not out there doing interviews - she does interviews. People say she's not doing alternative media, she does alternative media. People say her surrogates aren't out there enough - they're all out there. The campaign is being run as well as any. Just contrast it with Trump - who is literally just spouting nonense for 2 hours every other night. His campaign have given up with the candidate, and instead are just trying to win with targeted ads. And yet, he gains ground and she loses it.
As I think I posted before, it's horrible but quite a while ago I made my peace with the fact that on January 7th of 2020 I was 100% sure the fever had broken amongst the US right, but I was wrong. And now he's as popular as ever, despite being worse on literally every metric. He's less capable, less articulate, more vile, more racist and also a convited felon oh and committed treason. Fox news and its ilk have broken America, and due to the issues of the electoral college, we will get to see how bad 4 years of Trump will be for the people that elect him. The rest of us will just have to try and survive, and hope the institutions remain a bulwark against the Project 2025 folk, because they're the only ones that will be doing any policy.
Trump will do nothing. He keeps himself out of jail, and can now peacably play golf every other day for the next 4 years, through some big parties and ensure he remains solvent through bribes. That's it for him.
Had no idea about Thiel.
Yeah, I agree. Unless something happens in the next few weeks I think Trump will win. I thought Harris would win last month