2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris

Wing Attack Plan R said:
It's hard to quantify how much cheaper they are. The price for a house on my street would fetch this in South Carolina: a 4bd 5 ba 4600 square foot home on 1.35 acres.

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The reason why prices are cheaper in a lot of these red states is because they don't have the urban centers with large numbers of highly paid jobs. There is a good chance that if you live and work in NYC, LA, Chicago etc then you have moved their for an opportunity because you're well educated and highly skilled in what you do.

There is probably something to be said about those living further way from major cities being more vulnerable to the misinformation from charlatans like Trump. Lower levels of education, diversity and opportunity push people towards politics of fear, envy, blame and conspiracy.

Obviously, these are sweeping generalisations as there are plenty of smart people all over the country. Many live where my second home is in NC and some are Trumpsters!
 
SirAF said:
You're sarcastic, but yes Trump. That is all you need to know at this moment in time.
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I don't agree, I think you also need to know you're casting you vote for someone who supports genocide. It's not a detail.
 
gaffs said:
The reason why prices are cheaper in a lot of these red states is because they don't have the urban centers with large numbers of highly paid jobs. There is a good chance that if you live and work in NYC, LA, Chicago etc then you have moved their for an opportunity because you're well educated and highly skilled in what you do.

There is probably something to be said about those living further way from major cities being more vulnerable to the misinformation from charlatans like Trump. Lower levels of education, diversity and opportunity push people towards politics of fear, envy, blame and conspiracy.

Obviously, these are sweeping generalisations as there are plenty of smart people all over the country. Many live where my second home is in NC and some are Trumpsters!
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!!
 
gaffs said:
Talking of Red States / Blue States.

Is Trump really holding a rally at MSG?
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Yes, it's booked.

And of course there will be a lot of 'he's trying to help down ballot', ignoring the fact that any GOP house candidate running in a D+53 area wouldnt go a mile near Trump. He just wants to do it, because deep down he craves the NYC bright lights over the hick towns hes been preaching his stale sermons at.
 




Just gonna drop this here before the usual panic ensues when somebody just post the poll without the context.

It's 49-45 Harris with RV.
 
maniak said:
The government she is a part of has supported genocide for months now, it's not really something debatable.
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That is not what I find debatable.

1. Will the US and the world be better off with Harris (or any other Dem for that matter) as opposed to Trump? Yes, clearly.

2. Would the Gaza situation be better with Trump as POTUS? Obviously not.

Be an adult and make a rational choice given the gravity of this election. This doesn't apply to you given that you do not live in an American swing state though.
 
SirAF said:
That is not what I find debatable.

1. Will the US and the world be better off with Harris (or any other Dem for that matter) as opposed to Trump? Yes, clearly.

2. Would the Gaza situation be better with Trump as POTUS? Obviously not.

Be an adult and make a rational choice given the gravity of this election. This doesn't apply to you given that you do not live in an American swing state though.
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I think refusing to vote for a genocide supporter is a rational choice.
 
Strolling down to the community centre to cast your vote for the slightly lesser of two evil genocidal regimes is not what I would classify as an exercise in maturity. One of desperation and exasperation perhaps but either way you are still giving the go ahead to people who are enabling an ever widening campaign of mass rape, murder and mutilation of children.

I don't blame anyone who sees it as the only choice to make but I can't see the framing of it as a moral or mature act.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Yes, it's booked.

And of course there will be a lot of 'he's trying to help down ballot', ignoring the fact that any GOP house candidate running in a D+53 area wouldnt go a mile near Trump. He just wants to do it, because deep down he craves the NYC bright lights over the hick towns hes been preaching his stale sermons at.
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It's really smart. It is headline grabbing, for sure. Some of the bigger networks may cover it. Not just OAN or whoever covers his rallies now.

I had been thinking for weeks that Kamala should have done the same, just to get under his skin. But maybe it wouldn't play too well to be focused on anywhere else than the 7 swing states.

Maybe she needs to do a football statium?
 
dumbo said:
Strolling down to the community centre to cast your vote for the slightly lesser of two evil genocidal regimes is not what I would classify as an exercise in maturity. One of desperation and exasperation perhaps but either way you are still giving the go ahead to people who are enabling an ever widening campaign of mass rape, murder and mutilation of children.

I don't blame anyone who sees it as the only choice to make but I can't see the framing of it as a moral or mature act.
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That's literally how democracy works though. You pick the least shit candidate continuously until you get someone you actually like. It might take a lifetime, it might never happen, but it's the only way a democracy works. Nobody thinks evolution is a lovely system either but looks how far it got.
 
dumbo said:
Strolling down to the community centre to cast your vote for the slightly lesser of two evil genocidal regimes is not what I would classify as an exercise in maturity. One of desperation and exasperation perhaps but either way you are still giving the go ahead to people who are enabling an ever widening campaign of mass rape, murder and mutilation of children.

I don't blame anyone who sees it as the only choice to make but I can't see the framing of it as a moral or mature act.
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I hear you.

But, it’s not moral nor mature to let this country be overtaken by a wannabe dictator without doing the absolutely minimum thing that is necessary to prevent that: voting.

I will cast tomorrow my vote for Kamala Harris with absolute confidence that I’m doing the right thing, on the one hand, and with a heavy heart, on other. Biden has put us in an impossible position, but we have no choice. It’s either Harris or… Trump.

And I’m not even talking about the damage that he would cause to the Palestinian people. That’s a given if he wins.
 
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SirAF said:
That is not what I find debatable.

1. Will the US and the world be better off with Harris (or any other Dem for that matter) as opposed to Trump? Yes, clearly.

2. Would the Gaza situation be better with Trump as POTUS? Obviously not.

Be an adult and make a rational choice given the gravity of this election. This doesn't apply to you given that you do not live in an American swing state though.
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Its clear Harris is light years better than Trump on policy. The issue is whether she actually believes in half the things she's running on given her positions of 4 years ago, or if she's simply taking safe, focus grouped positions to appeal to various constituencies in order to win.
 
SirAF said:
That is not what I find debatable.

1. Will the US and the world be better off with Harris (or any other Dem for that matter) as opposed to Trump? Yes, clearly.

2. Would the Gaza situation be better with Trump as POTUS? Obviously not.

Be an adult and make a rational choice given the gravity of this election. This doesn't apply to you given that you do not live in an American swing state though.
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Obviously. But sadly so many don't vote rationally.
 
If we going to use our “rational” brains then it’s worth pointing out the individual votes of people on a football forum are meaningless in a national election.
 
Raoul said:
There's also a poll today with him up two in Michigan and tied with her in Wisconsin.
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I can tell you that I've been made aware some of conservative Detroit burbs are hyped to vote with from what I heard record absentee voting. (Ironic I know). The shit he said about Detroit today then is not aimed at the people of Detroit. It's aimed at those living in bubbled metro area communities who probably haven't set foot in the city in the last decades. I work with some of those people. They still believe all of the city is a hell hole because they're too scared to get out of their cul de sacs.

On a somewhat unrelated note: I saw some people make the argument that some of the Gen Zers now being able to vote shouldn't be assumed to mean it all benefits the Dems. We already knew about some of the young men trending more right in that generation because some believe they thave their advantages position in society taken away.

The other issue though (and I hadn't thought about this before)- is the fact that some of those same people have gone into adulthood watching Trump for the last 8 or so years and in some of their minds that behavior has probably become normalized. That in some ways scares me more than anything else.
 
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Damn they're playing the Hillary hits now. If that's not an ominous portent.

Dust off those pussyhats fellas.
 
Kaush949 said:
Question - have you considered renouncing your American citizenship and leaving the country instead? The real issue here is that your country unilaterally supports genocide regardless of party.
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I'm not american. And I'm not expecting anyone to do anything, each person can do whatever they want, I just expect some honesty about what they're doing, which is voting for someone who supports genocide.
 
dumbo said:
Strolling down to the community centre to cast your vote for the slightly lesser of two evil genocidal regimes is not what I would classify as an exercise in maturity. One of desperation and exasperation perhaps but either way you are still giving the go ahead to people who are enabling an ever widening campaign of mass rape, murder and mutilation of children.

I don't blame anyone who sees it as the only choice to make but I can't see the framing of it as a moral or mature act.
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I think you can definitely frame it as a moral act. Utilitarian morality is fairly straightforward here even just on the single issue of Israel-Gaza. 40K dead is preferable to 80K dead even if both can be described as genocides. So it's definitely a moral act to vote to reduce deaths, and that's before even taking into account a host of other very important issues.
 
maniak said:
I'm not american. And I'm not expecting anyone to do anything, each person can do whatever they want, I just expect some honesty about what they're doing, which is voting for someone who supports genocide.
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Any chance we can not do this again? You literally come in here once a month and say the exact same thing to the same people. We get it.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I think you can definitely frame it as a moral act. Utilitarian morality is fairly straightforward here even just on the single issue of Israel-Gaza. 40K dead is preferable to 80K dead even if both can be described as genocides. So it's definitely a moral act to vote to reduce deaths, and that's before even taking into account a host of other very important issues.
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That analysis is extremely unclear. Unless the election is decided by literally one vote, you're not influencing the outcome and the utility derived from it is zero. You're basically left with the utility you get from it personally, plus signalling effects. One of those signals being that the Democrats can help kill as many people they want without losing your support.
 
NotThatSoph said:
That analysis is extremely unclear. Unless the election is decided by literally one vote, you're not influencing the outcome and the utility derived from it is zero. You're basically left with the utility you get from it personally, plus signalling effects. One of those signals being that the Democrats can help kill as many people they want without losing your support.
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If that's your objection you can just add Kant's Universality principle. If everyone just believed their vote was irrelevant they wouldn't vote and it would affect the outcome.
 
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