2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
I wonder why he thinks he's actually a candidate, the only thing he's a candidate for is the nuthouse
Just a weird cat…
well, this is the entire essay with which his most famous family member got into harvard
He moves his head far too much when talking. It doesn't seem normal. Wonder if there is a medical explanation, maybe psychological if not physiological?
Democrats scramble to reach voters after Florida cancels mail-in ballot requests
Wonder who's voters use mail in voting more.
Wonder who's voters use mail in voting more.
Ramaswamy is an articulate guy, presicely the reason he will not win the primaries even if Trump dropped out, that and his ethnicity/name.
"Posing a threat to American democracy" by running in an election, jesus feck.
I think it's time to cancel suffrage to protect democracy.
A thing can be two things:
-Should West run if he desires and wins he Green Party nomination? Absolutely
-Will his candidacy increase the likelihood of Trump winning? Absolutely
Sure, but in neither of those cases is he posing a threat to American democracy. It's rhetoric that is beyond the pale here.
This. Plus in this case, the responsability of posing a threat to the american democracy would be from the guy that's actually posing a threat to the american democracy and the party that supports him. Not from the guy that's trying to do what representative democracy is supposed to do.
You don’t feel that American democracy will be at minimum considerably altered if Trump wins a second term?
Trump uses one!
It likely won't exist if Trump wins!
Agreed. It is the job of a candidate to win based on convincing voters of their vision for governance. If people look at Biden and Trump and feel neither vision speaks to them, but West's does then that is their fault, not West's/voter's.
TBH if Biden or Trump don't persuade them then it's probably better not to vote at all!
In 2020 it was said that Republicans not voting for Biden were this and that. They should vote for Biden to ensure Trump doesn't get to destroy the country.
Does this notion of saving the country by voting for Biden not count for Cornel West' voters?
Does this notion of saving the country by voting for Biden not count for Cornel West' voters?
I don't agree. The only way we will ever get additional viable candidate options is for voters to go and vote, even if their candidate has no chance. I hope to hell that voters realize that defeating Trump/MAGA is of utmost importance, but the way to do this is to convince them, not keep West or anyone else off the ballot.
No the only way to get additional viable candidates is to switch to ranked voting, you will never get this in a first past the post system. Study after study has been done showing this.
No, because people voting for Trump were actively endorsing his vision for America. Voters for West or any other non R/D candidate are not doing this, they are support an alternative vision. To put it another way, if someone living in Manchester choses to support Salford City instead of Utd or City it is not the same as them choosing City. Sure, they chose not to support Utd, but they did not go with City.
Sure, but that still requires additional candidates to be on a ballot. That was my point.
Gotta disagree due to the circumstances. Now is not the time for spoiler or narcissistic third party candidates like we saw in recent elections. We can begin to regain a level of normalcy once the clear & present danger is passed. The Repubs will never get back to where they were pre-Trump & might stay MAGAish forever, but Trump as a messiah figure will be gone after this election. We can’t feck this up again.
This is why a West candidacy could very well lead to a blow to our democracy from which we may never recover.
West is despicable TBH, Liz Cheney should run, then Republicans would have someone decent to vote for, I don't like her policies personally but she's not a despicable cnut
I get what you're saying here but I'm not sure it addresses the point. The point was that Trump was such an existential danger to the US that Republicans should set aside party preference and vote for Biden to save the country. Why shouldn't Cornel West voters set aside party preference to save the country?
Sure, but it's not a third candidate's responsibility to make sure a certain candidate doesn't win. They can decide they won't want to risk it, but I don't think it's ever right to say that that candidate itself poses a threat to democracy.
Ok, so what is the answer? For me there are 2 options to prevent your scenario:
1. Prevent him from running/being on the ballot
2. Convince voters to vote for Biden over him
How is option 1 not an equivalent blow to democracy?
People are addicted to forever arguing like it’s 2016.
That's exactly my point! It is the job of Biden and the Dems to make a case for why West's voters should vote for Biden. HOWEVER, that case should not be to label a candidate "a threat to American democracy" just because they are running.
Trump is though even if West isn't!
2016 is what got us here in the first place, you can blame a certain FBI agent to a certain extent for that!
Exactly! His policies and promised actions are the threat, not his candidacy.
So what is the solution then? Prevent him from being on the ballot?
But again, Trump is such a danger to the country that voting for Biden must take priority above any 3rd candidate. Voting for West might enable Trump to beat Biden and that's an existential threat to the US.
The sort of underlying notion of what you're saying is that Trump is not that big a threat to give Biden priority over Cornel West.
For the record, I don't really have a personal stake in this matter but I remember what was being said about moderate Republicans in 2020 (those who don't care for Trump but prefer Repubs) and I wonder why that isn't said about Cornel West voters.
2016 was always coming for America. Whether it is Trump or another lunatic.
Of course you can, it is rather easy to assess who won & see if the third party candidate played a substantial role in it. If so, candidacy would have played a substantial role as a threat to democracy. Sure, the losing candidate should have run a better campaign, but you're then getting into subjectives; if West runs & siphons votes from Biden & Trump wins, then objectively it was the third party candidate that greased the skids for a blow to our democracy. There's no getting around that.
This is your brain on American politics.
If democrats really do believe American democracy is one election away from getting over thrown then they should be advocating for a suspension of all elections until the Republican Party is forcibly destroyed.
Every election cycle post 2016 a bunch of voters convince themselves they are living in 1930’s Germany but then offer a pretty weak answer of voting blue harder.
Tbh I’m not sure there is any immediate solution. It’s all very grim atm and regardless of who is the next US president the institutions will continue to more further right and become more authoritarian(Which has been the case since at least the late 70’s).