2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Siorac said:
With this level of support for Trump, there's no realistic scenario in which this is an easy win for Democrats. Turnout has reached record heights; with millions of votes still to be counted, Biden already reached Hillary's level from four years ago. His vote share will only increase from here, in all likelihood.

For me, it's really really hard to see what they could have done in this era of increasing polarisation. Could they have squeezed out of a couple more percents in some important states? Sure, probably. But overall the moral of the story seems to be that those calling themselves centrists or independents are generally right-leaning people. Nothing new but it's confirmed again and again.
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Trump has seemingly increased his support across every demographic EXCEPT for white males, which tells me that the centrist unity candidate didn't do a very good job of appealing to those people.

Serious questions need to be asked of the Democratic establishment. It seems they haven't learned a thing from 2016 and if they do win the election, it will have been inspite of them rather than because of them. As Stobzilla said, it should have been like shooting fish in a barrell considering just how poorly the Republicans have handled Covid and the various other cardinal sins Trump has made during his tenure. It's simply indefensible to have this election be in the balance.

If they were worried about Bernie being a lame candidate, he surely would have been better than the halfway to senile Biden. He also would have attracted the youth vote and fought fire with fire on the populist pitch. Hell, Trump has succeeded in framing Biden as a Communist, so argument number one to not having Bernie on the ticket has been made redundant.
 
JJ12 said:
Doubt they are wrong with only a small amount of states remaining - soon find out
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Well yeah, the narrower the easier to be right. but they were wrong for months. like the polls. like everybody. So no, the bookies are not rarely wrong in politics
 
This is crazy. It's mind boggling that it is this close. I wish I was 200 years into the future reading a book about all that is happening right now, with all the various theories and reasons laid out for me to understand why Trump is still getting votes.

Biden screams rich establishment but I'd sooner vote for him than the utter turd of a human being than Donald Trump. I'm dumbfounded at how close this is. :lol:
 
Siorac said:
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It sort of works for your argument, too.
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Excuse me? What’s my argument? That abuse is reductive and works to polarise more so than it does to enact change? Of course it fecking works for both parties.
 
jungledrums said:
And it is language like this that contributes to keeping morons like trump in power. Has it not occurred to you that every time a sanctimonious ‘progressive’ belittles a ‘conservative’ (particularly the fence-sitters), that perhaps that might harden their resolve and therefore in part contribute to putting that orange clown in power?
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No one becomes committed to a ruinous agenda (Trump as president) just because their feelings got hurt. If they don't then their convictions were paper thin to begin with.

Or: ruining the country to own the libs.
 
crappycraperson said:
Obama won big against much better opponents. Yes even he turned out to be a hollow president but he also always had a solid policy platform and not just an anti-opponent one. Dem strategy of going with "safest" choice did not yield the results they wanted to. Once again they got carried away by trying to turn States like Florida and Texas.
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I am no expert in American politics but I have followed it closely for nearly 8 years now. Most of the pundits and experts I listened to never made the case for Dems trying to flip Texas and to a lesser extent Florida. Texas was always considered a state that would naturally flip on it own in future cycles. Biden barely campaigned or spent money there. I also never heard Dems make much noise about Florida. The places I know the Dems put a lot of effort were the rustbelt and midwest states.
The debate has been about whether the Dems need/needed to go more in person campaigning. Dems only started knocking on doors recently and I have been reading for months that some were worried.
On the wider note about ideology, half of America is lost forever. The idea a more left leaving candidate would have done better makes a mockery of reality.
Its time Americans accept that they simply are a shithole country. I am not sure how much better any other candidate would have done.
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Seems the polling industry is a massive fraud. I would consider their opinion as accurate as Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity from now own. People will bring up margin of error stuff but it just seems pseudo science now.
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My theory is that the proliferation of cell phone and/or caller ID has led to this. Think about it, how many of us answer the phone when it is an unknown number, especially out of state? This likely means they are not getting a good representation of the electorate like they think they are. Plus, many of them have only a few thousand data points. In a place like Florida this likely means feck all
 
Brwned said:
Agreed it's a terrible indictment on the US political system. Compare the debates between Nixon and Kennedy and these two and it's hard not to see glaring signs of a decaying system. You actually knew what they wanted. In this election people just knew what they didn't want. Though I don't think it's altogether impossible that those decays will be seized upon and exploited for the better by recent entrants to the political system with new ideas and an a genuine understanding of the average American.

Are centrists like @Raoul ready to accept yet that Biden was a poor candidate and a risky choice? A lot of the reasons thrown up on why he was the right one have surely fallen away at this point...
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Not at all. No other Dem candidate would’ve been competitive against Trump this cycle.
 
rotherham_red said:
Trump has seemingly increased his support across every demographic EXCEPT for white males, which tells me that the centrist unity candidate didn't do a very good job of appealing to those people.

Serious questions need to be asked of the Democratic establishment. It seems they haven't learned a thing from 2016 and if they do win the election, it will have been inspite of them rather than because of them. As Stobzilla said, it should have been like shooting fish in a barrell considering just how poorly the Republicans have handled Covid and the various other cardinal sins Trump has made during his tenure. It's simply indefensible to have this election be in the balance.

If they were worried about Bernie being a lame candidate, he surely would have been better than the halfway to senile Biden. He also would have attracted the youth vote and fought fire with fire on the populist pitch. Hell, Trump has succeeded in framing Biden as a Communist, so argument number one to not having Bernie on the ticket has been made redundant.
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Bernie didn't attract the youth vote in his own primaries. BOTH times he ran. I voted for Bernie in the Texas primary but that "coalition" of voters he says he could build never showed up. It was Biden who galvanized huge turnout thats how he won. Lets not pretend like Bernie was a missed opportunity.
 
Trump is by far the rudest and most abrasive presidential candidate ever, and its not even close. The guy is a natural bully and loves making fun of others who are different to him.

The idea people are voting for him because the Democrats supporters say nasty things on twitter is complete nonsense and post hoc justification.
 
Can't find any news on ballot measures except 15$ minimum wage in Florida, anyone have anything?
 
nimic said:
No one becomes committed to a ruinous agenda (Trump as president) just because their feelings got hurt. If they don't then their convictions were paper thin to begin with.

Or: ruining the country to own the libs.
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You’re spot on. There are a lot of people with paper thin convictions. Lots of people don’t exercise critical thinking either, hence my reply to a frankly ridiculous post.
 
jungledrums said:
And it is language like this that contributes to keeping morons like trump in power. Has it not occurred to you that every time a sanctimonious ‘progressive’ belittles a ‘conservative’ (particularly the fence-sitters), that perhaps that might harden their resolve and therefore in part contribute to putting that orange clown in power?
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That only further proves the original point being made if they base huge decisions on being a petulent little bitch out of spite because someone said something mean about them on the internet.
 
Pexbo said:
Can’t wait for all the tweets about how the polls were all actually correct and within the margin of error and the popular vote and bla bla fecking bla
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If they have more elections (sorry, I'm feeling pessimistic) the focus needs to be on state polls, nationwide polls are an absolute abomination.
 
The fact that there are still Americans who don't understand that people are the economy and that more Covid = worse economy is a shocking indictment of Biden's campaign. Glad to see he's got Maine though at least. Hopefully a couple of others come through as well.
 
Zarlak said:
That only further proves the original point being made if they base huge decisions on being a petulent little bitch out of spite because someone said something mean about them on the internet.
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... yes, that is precisely my point.
 
TheGame said:
I agree but Biden could have done a lot more to appeal to the wavering voters. He does not present a strong candidate at all. It’s just a sad state of affairs all round.
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He won his primary fairly easily. Which suggests that as far as his party is concerned, he was the strongest available candidate.
It is high time people start accepting the american voters for who they are.
 
Libano said:
1% of votes outstanding. 120K votes lead. Insurmountable.
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Where are you getting that? No one is reporting GA at 99%. They can’t be, Fulton county stopped counting hours ago and went home for the night.
 
WI_Red said:
My theory is that the proliferation of cell phone and/or caller ID has led to this. Think about it, how many of us answer the phone when it is an unknown number, especially out of state? This likely means they are not getting a good representation of the electorate like they think they are. Plus, many of them have only a few thousand data points. In a place like Florida this likely means feck all
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It might also be a case of silent voters.
 
There's a lot of talk about Georgia and Pennsylvania on here. Why not North Carolina? That seems closer than PA and if Biden wins Nevada, GA and NC he's got 275. Is it due to the types of votes left to be counted in NC?
 
WI_Red said:
My theory is that the proliferation of cell phone and/or caller ID has led to this. Think about it, how many of us answer the phone when it is an unknown number, especially out of state? This likely means they are not getting a good representation of the electorate like they think they are. Plus, many of them have only a few thousand data points. In a place like Florida this likely means feck all
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I've never once been asked my opinion or literally anyone I know so I'd like to know where their pool of people are coming from
 
WI_Red said:
My theory is that the proliferation of cell phone and/or caller ID has led to this. Think about it, how many of us answer the phone when it is an unknown number, especially out of state? This likely means they are not getting a good representation of the electorate like they think they are. Plus, many of them have only a few thousand data points. In a place like Florida this likely means feck all
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And yet they predicted 76% of governor, senate and house elections in the 2017-2019 election cycle, with fewer polls and fewer people, using the same methodology. Why didn't they get it wrong 50% of the time, as you'd expect from random chance, or less often, as you'd expect from faulty data and models? Or might there be an alternative explanation for why people are upset about the polls
 
If millions of people happily eat shit, it doesn't matter if you offer them steak instead of a loaf of bread. This is about Trump, very little democrats could've done something different in terms of campaigning.
 
rotherham_red said:
Trump has seemingly increased his support across every demographic EXCEPT for white males, which tells me that the centrist unity candidate didn't do a very good job of appealing to those people.

Serious questions need to be asked of the Democratic establishment. It seems they haven't learned a thing from 2016 and if they do win the election, it will have been inspite of them rather than because of them. As Stobzilla said, it should have been like shooting fish in a barrell considering just how poorly the Republicans have handled Covid and the various other cardinal sins Trump has made during his tenure. It's simply indefensible to have this election be in the balance.

If they were worried about Bernie being a lame candidate, he surely would have been better than the halfway to senile Biden. He also would have attracted the youth vote and fought fire with fire on the populist pitch. Hell, Trump has succeeded in framing Biden as a Communist, so argument number one to not having Bernie on the ticket has been made redundant.
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But it was never going to be shooting fish in a barrel. That's what the entire night is telling us. That no matter who the Democratic candidate was, this would have been a close election because Trump managed to actually increase his support.

Again, the USA is now hyperpolarised. The number of undecided voters is dwindling in every election. Energising your own base to make sure they vote is rapidly becoming the most important thing - and when the Republicans are successful at THAT, they have a very good chance to win thanks to the peculiarities of the system, particularly the Electoral College.
 
jungledrums said:
And it is language like this that contributes to keeping morons like trump in power. Has it not occurred to you that every time a sanctimonious ‘progressive’ belittles a ‘conservative’ (particularly the fence-sitters), that perhaps that might harden their resolve and therefore in part contribute to putting that orange clown in power?
Click to expand...

If they vote for Trump out of defiance although he's got hundred thousands of people killed, is an open racist and fraud then they deserve to be belittled. There really shouldn't be any excuses for voting such a horrible person. This result, no matter how it turns out in the end, is downright unbearable. I'm sorry but anyone who votes Trump can't give a feck about democracy, division of powers, equality and many other basics of the Western civilization. It's impossible. Those people are lost for good.
 
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
 
So hang on if Biden gets North Carolina and Georgia does that mean he wins via Nebraska or is that a tie at that point?
 
JulesWinnfield said:
Trump is by far the rudest and most abrasive presidential candidate ever, and its not even close. The guy is a natural bully and loves making fun of others who are different to him.

The idea people are voting for him because the Democrats supporters say nasty things on twitter is complete nonsense and post hoc justification.
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He and his supporters are the epitome of the "can dish out but can't take it" type.

Since we're on a forum primarily about football: this is why I always disliked Gattuso. He was a dirty, thuggish bastard - who went down clutching his face the moment someone touched him.
 
Few things I take from this election.

1. Americans deserve everything
 
Zehner said:
If they vote for Trump out of defiance although he's got hundred thousands of people killed, is an open racist and fraud then they deserve to be belittled. There really shouldn't be any excuses for voting such a horrible person. This result, no matter how it turns out in the end, is downright unbearable. I'm sorry but anyone who votes Trump can't give a feck about democracy, division of powers, equality and many other basics of the Western civilization. It's impossible. Those people are lost for good.
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Fully agree. It's really beyond comprehension that people want Trump as their president.
 
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