2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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MadDogg said:
What are the chances of something absolutely unforeseen happening in 2020?

:nervous:
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i don't think anything that's happened in 2020 so far has been unforseen. People have just dismissed the likelihood of these events occurring, but the warning bells for these incidents have been raised numerous times. Especially the horror of Liverpool winning the league. I'm saying Biden's lead is so strong and sentiment polls are so strongly anti-trump that for a reversal to the point of Trump winning, imo, will take something truly no one has thought about e.g Biden chooses David Duke as his VP and announced his membership to the KKK.
 
WPMUFC said:
i don't think anything that's happened in 2020 so far has been unforseen. People have just dismissed the likelihood of these events occurring, but the warning bells for these incidents have been raised numerous times. Especially the horror of Liverpool winning the league. I'm saying Biden's lead is so strong and sentiment polls are so strongly anti-trump that for a reversal to the point of Trump winning, imo, will take something truly no one has thought about e.g Biden chooses David Duke as his VP and announced his membership to the KKK.
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Bidens lead is what 6 to 7 points
By most estimates trump can potentially loose the popular vote by 3 to 4 percent and still win the electoral college

So in the midst of a pandemic and race riots he only needs to nudge the needle 2% to be in with a fighting chance

Its far from over
 
Raoul said:
Maybe buying into cherry picked clips from pro-MAGA sites isn’t the best option.
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I'm not american, but I'm anti trump as much as the next guy here.

But still, bidden looks frail and old it feels like he could collapse any moment. It maybe cherry picked but that sort of cherry should even exist in the first place. We're talking POTUS here.
 
Sky1981 said:
I'm not american, but I'm anti trump as much as the next guy here.

But still, bidden looks frail and old it feels like he could collapse any moment. It maybe cherry picked but that sort of cherry should even exist in the first place. We're talking POTUS here.
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That’s a far left and far right narrative. If he looked as frail and bad as some of these clips may suggest, he wouldn’t be beating Trump in every poll there is right now.
 
Raoul said:
That’s a far left and far right narrative. If he looked as frail and bad as some of these clips may suggest, he wouldn’t be beating Trump in every poll there is right now.
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One could wonder if he is beating Trump in the polls because he is Joe Biden, or because the other person is Trump... I mean, the people that vote for Trump will do it regardless. And the people that do not like Trump will vote against him regardless as long as the candidate is not a "socialist".
 
Fosu-Mens said:
One could wonder if he is beating Trump in the polls because he is Joe Biden, or because the other person is Trump... I mean, the people that vote for Trump will do it regardless. And the people that do not like Trump will vote against him regardless as long as the candidate is not a "socialist".
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Thats true although, Biden is up by 10 points or so right now, which is unusually high in such a polarized time. This, after he's weathered a constant shitstorm of people accusing him of being a creepy old guy, accused him of rape, endless gaffs etc. This suggests he has a degree of political resiliency that can deal with a Gen election against Trump.
 
Raoul said:
Thats true although, Biden is up by 10 points or so right now, which is unusually high in such a polarized time. This, after he's weathered a constant shitstorm of people accusing him of being a creepy old guy, accused him of rape, endless gaffs etc. This suggests he has a degree of political resiliency that can deal with a Gen election against Trump.
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Or Trump's behaviour and actions have been even worse than normal over the last months?
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Or Trump's behaviour and actions have been even worse than normal over the last months?
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I think people are finally beginning to smarten up about how dangerous a 2nd Trump would be to the future of the country. Most of Biden's policies are very similar to Obama's, which is something a vast majority of Dems can get behind. The fact that there is a faction of Republicans who are anti-Trump, tells you all you need to know about the danger people see in a 2nd term.
 
Raoul said:
I think people are finally beginning to smarten up about how dangerous a 2nd Trump would be to the future of the country. Most of Biden's policies are very similar to Obama's, which is something a vast majority of Dems can get behind. The fact that there is a faction of Republicans who are anti-Trump, tells you all you need to know about the danger people see in a 2nd term.
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And again back to my previous original notion that people are not voting for Biden, they are voting against Trump. A large degree of social media is about saying that one is worse than the other, rather than "I am a better candidate due to... Vote for me". Not that I cannot see why both have taken to this strategy given that in this case, it is easier to prove the faults in the opposition than your own strengths...

Should state that I am not a US citizen, nor do I live in the states. So it is difficult to emphasis and put myself in the shoes of an American and understand how they think, still, I find it sad that the candidate that would at least attempt to make the lives safer and better for 90% of the Americans is shunned due to having called himself a Socialist in the past.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
And again back to my previous original notion that people are not voting for Biden, they are voting against Trump. A large degree of social media is about saying that one is worse than the other, rather than "I am a better candidate due to... Vote for me". Not that I cannot see why both have taken to this strategy given that in this case, it is easier to prove the faults in the opposition than your own strengths...

Should state that I am not a US citizen, nor do I live in the states. So it is difficult to emphasis and put myself in the shoes of an American and understand how they think, still, I find it sad that the candidate that would at least attempt to make the lives safer and better for 90% of the Americans is shunned due to having called himself a Socialist in the past.
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They are voting for a centrist that isn’t named Clinton. It is more or less that simple.

Although he is doing something like 10pts better with women voters than Hillary was at this point, which is crazy with the allegations levied against him. That shows some people are voting for him, not just against Donald.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Although he is doing something like 10pts better with women voters than Hillary was at this point, which is crazy with the allegations levied against him. That shows some people are voting for him, not just against Donald.
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Just to be clear, to call those allegations problematic at this stage would be an understatement. Not sure if you followed the story of his single assault accuser, but she has proved, erm, unreliable to say the least. So much so that the NYTimes and others have published articles about her credibility, after initially publishing the accusations.

Just saying, I really, really don't think this particular thing should stick to Biden, unless someone else comes forward with something equally serious. Also, behold the power of the high-profile allegation.
 
Beachryan said:
Just to be clear, to call those allegations problematic at this stage would be an understatement. Not sure if you followed the story of his single assault accuser, but she has proved, erm, unreliable to say the least. So much so that the NYTimes and others have published articles about her credibility, after initially publishing the accusations.

Just saying, I really, really don't think this particular thing should stick to Biden, unless someone else comes forward with something equally serious. Also, behold the power of the high-profile allegation.
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I saw something about that, but that is around when the world started burning down so I don’t recall a resolution (or at least agreement on here). But still to be doing that much better with female voters than a woman candidate shows you something.
 
Perhaps this should be a separate thread but I've been reading a bit about dirty tricks during elections. And it's crazy how dirty the Republicans are willing to get.

How come the Democrats don't...get as dirty as the Republicans? Or am I talking BS here?
 
VorZakone said:
Perhaps this should be a separate thread but I've been reading a bit about dirty tricks during elections. And it's crazy how dirty the Republicans are willing to get.

How come the Democrats don't...get as dirty as the Republicans? Or am I talking BS here?
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Google 1960 Illinois Presidential Election voter fraud
 
Not exactly a surprise but the establishment are rallying around Engel, despite the shocking blunders he has made in the past few weeks.

 
‘CoronaPalooza 2020’. Tulsa is hitting record highs for C-19 right now...sigh.
(Parscale is a campaign manager for Donnie, RJ is pointing out the fault in his maths)
 
Fosu-Mens said:
And again back to my previous original notion that people are not voting for Biden, they are voting against Trump. A large degree of social media is about saying that one is worse than the other, rather than "I am a better candidate due to... Vote for me". Not that I cannot see why both have taken to this strategy given that in this case, it is easier to prove the faults in the opposition than your own strengths...

Should state that I am not a US citizen, nor do I live in the states. So it is difficult to emphasis and put myself in the shoes of an American and understand how they think, still, I find it sad that the candidate that would at least attempt to make the lives safer and better for 90% of the Americans is shunned due to having called himself a Socialist in the past.
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You gotta understand though not everyone is a socialist. Many people think that m4a is net loss for them. And why should they help the poor by the way?

England has their own version of brexit where people vote against common sense and cooperatively greater good in the name of perceived self interest against immigrants.

Bernie sanders idea was noble, but american majority isnt noble enough. And this time they can hide behind voting ballot. They dont need to come out and say they're not gonna subsidy the poor.

Bernie is too purist to understand that in order to do good you'd need to be wicked enough to attain the position to do good. He's just harping something ideologically sound without actually having the will to get dirty in the name of what he believes.

Seen this type of guys all across country, the purist type that serves as figurehead but never be ruthless enough to lead.
 
calodo2003 said:


Gotta wonder if the ‘800K’ number is helped out any by this?
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I have seen stuff like that floating around, but that number being espoused on their end is still so stupid. It’s just shit all around, and this rally being indoors people will inevitably die from it. If they’re coming from out of town it will facilitate spread to smaller communities.

This Tulsa rally is just a giant Jurassic Park sized pile of shit.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
I have seen stuff like that floating around, but that number being espoused on their end is still so stupid. It’s just shit all around, and this rally being indoors people will inevitably die from it. If they’re coming from out of town it will facilitate spread to smaller communities.

This Tulsa rally is just a giant Jurassic Park sized pile of shit.
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I’m all for culling of the stupid, though.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
‘CoronaPalooza 2020’. Tulsa is hitting record highs for C-19 right now...sigh.
(Parscale is a campaign manager for Donnie, RJ is pointing out the fault in his maths)
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I think people underestimate how important the data is in all of this

I think rump / the republicans are a long way ahead of the democrats in this regard and i expect huge very target spends on social media in September / October... negative campaigning to try and put the biden numbers down a bit... but a huge push to get all his base out and if its in the second wave of CV19 that will put a lot of less committed voters off of standing next to a maga nutter with no mask in a line to vote, he potentially has the excuse of the protests to heavily police the events (as a potential flashpoint and i dont rule out him telling his base to exersise their second amendment rights and police the votes themselves to protect the election from antifa fraud)

But the key for them is the data and tricks like this gets lots of it for them
 
Sky1981 said:
You gotta understand though not everyone is a socialist. Many people think that m4a is net loss for them. And why should they help the poor by the way?

England has their own version of brexit where people vote against common sense and cooperatively greater good in the name of perceived self interest against immigrants.

Bernie sanders idea was noble, but american majority isnt noble enough. And this time they can hide behind voting ballot. They dont need to come out and say they're not gonna subsidy the poor.

Bernie is too purist to understand that in order to do good you'd need to be wicked enough to attain the position to do good. He's just harping something ideologically sound without actually having the will to get dirty in the name of what he believes.

Seen this type of guys all across country, the purist type that serves as figurehead but never be ruthless enough to lead.
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It should not be about who is a socialist or not. It is simple math, common decency etc. The total expenditure would go down. The net social security would go up. The average American would without a doubt have a safer, healthier and less stressful life by this... Is it that the information is not getting there, or it is misrepresented or is it the big bad "socialism" label making it a bad thing?

Obama saying that he was against it due to "what about all the jobs in the insurance industry", is like saying we should not legalize drugs so that we can protect the jobs of the drug dealers.

The element about Bernie not getting elected that is the big issue is the lack of focus on climate change... Sure, Biden will not r*pe the environment and Climate like Trump does, but he will not make any big changes... Having a equilibrium president when all the arrows are pointing down will not work, will it?
 
Organic Potatoes said:
They are voting for a centrist that isn’t named Clinton. It is more or less that simple.

Although he is doing something like 10pts better with women voters than Hillary was at this point, which is crazy with the allegations levied against him. That shows some people are voting for him, not just against Donald.
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And I think these good polling results (not that I am complaining, as long as Trump does not get 4 more years) are down to how much dislike there is for trump. Sure, the typical DNC/Clinton voter would have given Biden their vote regardless, same as Trumps Fox voters. But all the other people in between are voting for anything that is not Trump.
 
Sky1981 said:
You gotta understand though not everyone is a socialist. Many people think that m4a is net loss for them. And why should they help the poor by the way?

England has their own version of brexit where people vote against common sense and cooperatively greater good in the name of perceived self interest against immigrants.

Bernie sanders idea was noble, but american majority isnt noble enough. And this time they can hide behind voting ballot. They dont need to come out and say they're not gonna subsidy the poor.

Bernie is too purist to understand that in order to do good you'd need to be wicked enough to attain the position to do good. He's just harping something ideologically sound without actually having the will to get dirty in the name of what he believes.

Seen this type of guys all across country, the purist type that serves as figurehead but never be ruthless enough to lead.
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Some former aides to Bernie suggest he genuinely likes Biden because Biden has been nice to Bernie. So maybe not so purist but just human who likes to be treated with respect and be comfortable in his working environment after many decades. Bernie also wanted or felt he needed to take billionaire money to his organisation Our Revolution until several staffers left the organisation. Bernie has just become comfortable, out if touch with his movement, unwilling to use leverage and I think he even overestimates his own cult of personality aura.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
It should not be about who is a socialist or not. It is simple math, common decency etc. The total expenditure would go down. The net social security would go up. The average American would without a doubt have a safer, healthier and less stressful life by this... Is it that the information is not getting there, or it is misrepresented or is it the big bad "socialism" label making it a bad thing?

Obama saying that he was against it due to "what about all the jobs in the insurance industry", is like saying we should not legalize drugs so that we can protect the jobs of the drug dealers.

The element about Bernie not getting elected that is the big issue is the lack of focus on climate change... Sure, Biden will not r*pe the environment and Climate like Trump does, but he will not make any big changes... Having a equilibrium president when all the arrows are pointing down will not work, will it?
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Simple Math : Nope. Actually M4A is a very very complicated issue, it's only simple in Bernie's head. You're asking a very prominent industry (Medical, pharmacy, insurance) to all play mother Theresa so that (excuse the langugage) poor BAME and Poor homeless white can enjoy getting hospitalized. It may be a grand gesture, but if you're not homeless, you're not minority, and you already have an insurance / health plan, why risk it all? It's far from simple math, there's no model that can get close to predict what will happen under M4A because the variables are too big. It's more than "Net positive collectively"

common decency : You think the majority of Americans cares about homeless and the poor? again you're assuming Americans are decent, as trump have shown they're not. And as Biden have shown, half the democrats too don't have the decency for this. And Brexit again have shown that half of England gives no two feck about honest immigrants want to pick fruit for the benefit of everyone in a win win situation. Nope, off you go lad.

Climate issue : again you seems to be failed to grasp why Trump wins the last time around. When Democrats talks about LGBT issue, equality, Iran, world climate and all the usual political mambo jumbo while Trump talks about Jobs, how poor you fellow are and I'm gonna fight for you, even if I have to feck everyone else up. That's right folks, you' think majority of america cares about climate change? They want Jobs, they want economy, and while Trump fails to deliver on both account he didn't fail to address it, and if I'm a poor working American in rural I'd pick Trump any day and twice on Sunday. You remember what Trump promises during his campaign? He's gonna rip stupid Climate Issue and he did that on his first day. Like him or hate him this is what Americans wants, they don't care about some climate change.

Read my answer again, I'm not saying I love trump, or I hate Bernie, but looking from the outside it's clear to me why people don't want him (and at this point this is not my assumption, democrats don't want him either hence they vote for Biden). And it's not because he slipped "socialist" word back then. It's because frankly speaking he offers nothing concrete other than some old man pipe dream. And it's not misinterpretation either, even John Oliver and Bernie's own base are scratching their heads on what/who/where/when/how M4A could work. We're talking about redoing the whole American health care system, and that's assuming the Republican didn't throw a wrench and sabotage it halfway. I don't trust the democrats to do all this if I'm american, they can't even properly impeached a buffon.
 
Sky1981 said:
Simple Math : Nope. Actually M4A is a very very complicated issue, it's only simple in Bernie's head. You're asking a very prominent industry (Medical, pharmacy, insurance) to all play mother Theresa so that (excuse the langugage) poor BAME and Poor homeless white can enjoy getting hospitalized. It may be a grand gesture, but if you're not homeless, you're not minority, and you already have an insurance / health plan, why risk it all? It's far from simple math, there's no model that can get close to predict what will happen under M4A because the variables are too big. It's more than "Net positive collectively"

common decency : You think the majority of Americans cares about homeless and the poor? again you're assuming Americans are decent, as trump have shown they're not. And as Biden have shown, half the democrats too don't have the decency for this. And Brexit again have shown that half of England gives no two feck about honest immigrants want to pick fruit for the benefit of everyone in a win win situation. Nope, off you go lad.

Climate issue : again you seems to be failed to grasp why Trump wins the last time around. When Democrats talks about LGBT issue, equality, Iran, world climate and all the usual political mambo jumbo while Trump talks about Jobs, how poor you fellow are and I'm gonna fight for you, even if I have to feck everyone else up. That's right folks, you' think majority of america cares about climate change? They want Jobs, they want economy, and while Trump fails to deliver on both account he didn't fail to address it, and if I'm a poor working American in rural I'd pick Trump any day and twice on Sunday. You remember what Trump promises during his campaign? He's gonna rip stupid Climate Issue and he did that on his first day. Like him or hate him this is what Americans wants, they don't care about some climate change.

Read my answer again, I'm not saying I love trump, or I hate Bernie, but looking from the outside it's clear to me why people don't want him (and at this point this is not my assumption, democrats don't want him either hence they vote for Biden). And it's not because he slipped "socialist" word back then. It's because frankly speaking he offers nothing concrete other than some old man pipe dream. And it's not misinterpretation either, even John Oliver and Bernie's own base are scratching their heads on what/who/where/when/how M4A could work. We're talking about redoing the whole American health care system, and that's assuming the Republican didn't throw a wrench and sabotage it halfway. I don't trust the democrats to do all this if I'm american, they can't even properly impeached a buffon.
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Simple Math: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6961869/
Sure, it is difficult to imagine M4A across the nation compared to what it is now, but it cannot be worse than this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita


Common decency: It is difficult to care about other people when you are barely able to care for yourself and your family by working 2 jobs, or 50+ hour a week. (maybe a bit too generalised?) I.e. Maslow. Should be noted that I think that in this instance, there is a fair amount of privilege, so I should not judge them from my socially secure position for not thinking about homeless people +++.

Climate Change: Same as the one above. Hard to think long term, when short term is not secure/safe? We want jobs, we want to be able to spend money...

I see where you coming from with Bernie having noble ideas, but lack/unable to formulate them into something tangible that the non-Bernie voter could relate to.
 
Fosu-Mens said:
Simple Math: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6961869/
Sure, it is difficult to imagine M4A across the nation compared to what it is now, but it cannot be worse than this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_health_expenditure_per_capita


Common decency: It is difficult to care about other people when you are barely able to care for yourself and your family by working 2 jobs, or 50+ hour a week. (maybe a bit too generalised?) I.e. Maslow. Should be noted that I think that in this instance, there is a fair amount of privilege, so I should not judge them from my socially secure position for not thinking about homeless people +++.

Climate Change: Same as the one above. Hard to think long term, when short term is not secure/safe? We want jobs, we want to be able to spend money...

I see where you coming from with Bernie having noble ideas, but lack/unable to formulate them into something tangible that the non-Bernie voter could relate to.
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If I'm American I'll be on Bernie's camp. But alas, it is what it is
 
Really good signs that Trump is going to get absolutely trounced. I expect the electoral and senate figures will be much closer but I won’t be a bit surprised if Biden wins by 9+ points on the popular vote.
 
Drifter said:
Personally i think it's a terrible idea politically. Going back to politics that gave birth to Trump.
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Maybe but since there is only 2 candidates you gotta start by cutting the rot out first.

The whole system needs reworking - 2 party politics backed by big money is crazy
 
Pexbo said:
Really good signs that Trump is going to get absolutely trounced. I expect the electoral and senate figures will be much closer but I won’t be a bit surprised if Biden wins by 9+ points on the popular vote.
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Could you imagine it? His head will go nuclear
 
Pexbo said:
Really good signs that Trump is going to get absolutely trounced. I expect the electoral and senate figures will be much closer but I won’t be a bit surprised if Biden wins by 9+ points on the popular vote.
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What's record for the biggest win in a Presidential election?
 
I’ve mentioned before about how PA’s numbers looked weird relative to the other critical Rust Belt swing states, and it turns out they just don’t have any highly rated (by 538) polling their right now. 2 had Donald ahead, which sounds like they were weighted towards the western half of the state in oil & gas country. The other has Biden +9.

538 - Swing States
 
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