2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

[Florida Man]

Irrespective, first step to eventually overcoming Trumpism is to not have Trump in power. If Biden chooses a good VP, we have a good chance to start the ball rolling now. In future, we probably might have even a better choice of candidates than Hillary/Biden to take over and continue the progressive agenda.

It's naive and simplistic to think only a radical candidate on other side of spectrum can stop Trumpism. We can sit here and debate on sociopolitical theories and various ism's...but the fact is Trump is causing immediate harm in rolling back environmental rules, pushing fossil fuel agenda and stacking the court system. If not stopped immediately, the long term harm would be irreplaceable. Immediate action is as important as future agenda.

PS: I really really hope he does't feck it up by choosing Harris.

Bernie is not a radical but appears so because of our history of choosing the lesser of two evils, which moved the Overton window so far right. That fact that the current optics see Bernie as a radical shows how fecked up our political system is, and it won’t change if we keep rewarding these gladhands who pimp working class and people and minorities for their votes.

Second, Biden and the general Democratic approach will not do anything nearly good enough for climate change and the environment. Even the US did everything perfectly in that regard, it still doesn’t address SE Asia and the rest of developing world who are transitioning to modern economies.

It also doesn’t matter if Trump is out of power because when not if the Biden presidency disappoints, it will lead us back to square one. And if at square one, Republicans push another Trump-like person and the Democrats nominate another hack, then we have potentially another eight years of “Trump”. And at that time, Democrats and liberals will have their Pikachu faces again asking unironically, but how?

 

[freeurmind]

Bernie voters will overwhelmingly vote for Biden in the general just as most voted for Hillary in 2016. Probably a greater percentage than Biden voters would have voted for Sanders if Sanders had won the nomination.
Still might not be enough though. Trump is basically within the margin of error in all the swing states. Not to mention Biden showing John Kerry levels of capability to inspire the electorate. The virus may be a saving grace for Biden though, the White House is handling it so poorly, it may make people angry enough to actually go out there and vote.

 

[Eboue]

not being able to afford to see a doctor sucks, but if it returns america to the table of big boy conversations on a global scale, i think we all have to agree thats its worth it

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Second, Biden and the general Democratic approach will not do anything nearly good enough for climate change and the environment. Even the US did everything perfectly in that regard, it still doesn’t address SE Asia and the rest of developing world who are transitioning to modern economies.

It also doesn’t matter if Trump is out of power because when not if the Biden presidency disappoints, it will lead us back to square one. And if at square one, Republicans push another Trump-like person and the Democrats nominate another hack, then we have potentially another eight years of “Trump”. And at that time, Democrats and liberals will have their Pikachu faces again asking unironically, but how?

Oh, the recent reversal of environmental regulations will definitely cease. The opening up of protected land in national parks will cease. Loosening of pollution regulations will cease. Having Biden rather than Trump will be a big factor in halting the free fall the country green agenda is going through now. 4 more years of Trump will cause significant damage to environment policies that'll not happen if Biden (or any other Dem) is in charge. So keeping Trump off power is crucial.

The conservative judge nomination is another silent killer. The more Trump nominees there are, the more difficult it'll be for all near future as these just can't be rectified/reversed. We have to stop these from happening in first place, else live with consequences till their term ends which will be decades.

Trump presidency will disappoint. Biden presidency may disappoint. Crucial difference. I hope he picks a good VP, but irrespective, the harm caused by current admin will at least cease.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Bernie voters will overwhelmingly vote for Biden in the general just as most voted for Hillary in 2016. Probably a greater percentage than Biden voters would have voted for Sanders if Sanders had won the nomination.
Still might not be enough though. Trump is basically within the margin of error in all the swing states.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

In 2016, about 216,000 Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin voters backed the Vermont senator in the spring and Trump in the fall, according to an analysis of exit polling — well over twice the president's total margin of victory in those states, which were critical to his electoral vote win in the face of a decisive popular vote loss.

 

[Beachryan]

not being able to afford to see a doctor sucks, but if it returns america to the table of big boy conversations on a global scale, i think we all have to agree thats its worth it

Which candidate for President do you view as more likely to make healthcare affordable? The one who literally worked to pass the ACA, or the one currently dismantling it through the courts?

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Kellyanne Conway?

I didn't say slutty, mate.

()

 

[Beachryan]

Again... Biden winning does not end Trumpism. It doesn’t stop the GOP from pushing for Trump-like candidate in 2024. It doesn’t even stop Trump from running in 2024. He’s going to be either a terrible or mediocre president and he’s not going to have the passionate base to prop him up. Some of you act like getting Trump out means it’s done and dusted, we can all go back to normal. Except that normal is the same conditions that led to Trump. Defeating Trumpism and the like is not going to happen by compromising with a Democrat. And I don't give a feck what Bernie tells me to do. Despite what some of you like to circle jerk about, I don’t view him as a messiah to follow blindly.

Not at all. Will voting Trump out in 2020 ensure the GOP start responding to the majority of Americans on issues, and return to some kind of sanity? I don't know. But it's a damn sight more likely than voting for 4 more years of Trump.

American politics has several huge issues, that will take a generation to resolve if they even do, that have absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump. He's a symptom not the disease. But it's still worth treating a symptom if you have the opportunity.

- Citizens United
- Gerrymandering and voter supression
- Electoral college falling out of step with democratic ideals
- General levels of education
- State of news media, and lines blurred between news and entertainment
- Ever-increasing wealth inequality
- Blown up deficit
- Climate change

All those things are major issues that won't be solved by voting out Trump. But they're all going to get worse if his 'brand of politics' is endorsed by another victory.

 

[Eboue]

Which candidate for President do you view as more likely to make healthcare affordable? The one who literally worked to pass the ACA, or the one currently dismantling it through the courts?

i love how you centrists frame it as "well biden is the best we've got, sanders isnt a candidate" when we all know you didnt support sanders when he was a candidate

 

[Raoul]

I didn't say slutty, mate.

()

I was thinking more in the meth addict genre.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I was thinking more in the meth addict genre.

that doesn't preclude slutty, though.

 

[Eboue]

will joe biden help out the working class in the country? no. will he make the changes needed to protect the environment? also no. but does he have a d next to his name? yes he does.

 

[entropy]

He can’t even if he wants to. Most of his money is from superpacs. Now that Bernie is out, no one is gonna bother ask him who his donors are and it will be a free reign for them to figure out his cabinet, policies, etc.

 

[ChaddyP]

Bernie voters will overwhelmingly vote for Biden in the general just as most voted for Hillary in 2016. Probably a greater percentage than Biden voters would have voted for Sanders if Sanders had won the nomination.
Still might not be enough though. Trump is basically within the margin of error in all the swing states. Not to mention Biden showing John Kerry levels of capability to inspire the electorate. The virus may be a saving grace for Biden though, the White House is handling it so poorly, it may make people angry enough to actually go out there and vote.

This is quite an understatement.

Trump is literally on twitter instigating more riots in Michigan "liberate michigan" for his perceived political benefit. Its unfortunate that not enough people outside of California voted for Bernie in the primary, but surely a Biden Whitehouse would at least be susceptible to political pressure which trump is so far immune to and come up with a better response to the the pandemic.

 

[entropy]

I don't think we will see Trump himself raise these arguments as Trump has over 30 ongoing sexual assault allegations against him and more which have been settled in the past.

It will definitely be the line of attack used by his troll bot armies though.

It’ll eventually happen. Especially since both of them have no policy to speak of. It’s basically what the media would prefer as well. Only a matter of time before they turn on Biden in the run up to the general.

 

[Drifter]

The man should be in a home.

That is the best Dems could come up with. I wonder if they really want to win . And by some miracle he pulls it off , i can only see him staying on one term. He's deteriorating.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Get that man some adderall.

 

[freeurmind]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/20...-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

That's 11% of Bernie voters. Obama won with 25% of Clinton voters voting for McCain.

 

[sun_tzu]

That is the best Dems could come up with. I wonder if they really want to win . And by some miracle he pulls it off , i can only see him staying on one term. He's deteriorating.

he will be 78 wont he if he becomes president - 82 at the end of his first term... (if he makes it that far)
But yeah 86 would seem a big ask for anybody to do that job - which I guess does mean that there is a realistic possibility that should his win his vp might not only see out part of his term but then be the democrat nominee in 2024... and i guess if they win that in 2028 as well... so it really is a pretty important pick

 

[entropy]

This is quite an understatement.

Trump is literally on twitter instigating more riots in Michigan "liberate michigan" for his perceived political benefit. Its unfortunate that not enough people outside of California voted for Bernie in the primary, but surely a Biden Whitehouse would at least be susceptible to political pressure which trump is so far immune to and come up with a better response to the the pandemic.

Biden and his team urged voters to go out and vote for him ignoring cdc guidelines.

 

[ChaddyP]

Biden and his team urged voters to go out and vote for him ignoring cdc guidelines.

And this is some how similar to telling michigan voters to overthrow the government?

Cool

 

[entropy]

Putting aside the fact that you don’t seem to care to hold Biden accountable. I think it is disgusting that we have moved onto a stage in this conversation where “but he is not trump” so it’s ok to let some people die to get Biden elected.

 

[Foxbatt]

More Bernie voters will vote for Biden than Hillary. She was hated by many. I don't think Biden is hated like that.
The more Trump implodes the more people will realise how bad things are.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Bernie is not a radical but appears so because of our history of choosing the lesser of two evils, which moved the Overton window so far right. That fact that the current optics see Bernie as a radical shows how fecked up our political system is, and it won’t change if we keep rewarding these gladhands who pimp working class and people and minorities for their votes.

Second, Biden and the general Democratic approach will not do anything nearly good enough for climate change and the environment. Even the US did everything perfectly in that regard, it still doesn’t address SE Asia and the rest of developing world who are transitioning to modern economies.

It also doesn’t matter if Trump is out of power because when not if the Biden presidency disappoints, it will lead us back to square one. And if at square one, Republicans push another Trump-like person and the Democrats nominate another hack, then we have potentially another eight years of “Trump”. And at that time, Democrats and liberals will have their Pikachu faces again asking unironically, but how?

Good one.

I used to think the idea of voting for the lesser evil was correct in general and part of democracy but I'm more inclined these days towards holding out for a workable alternative. US politics in particular looks inescapably bought by corporate interests and its only going to stop being so when the pitchforks come out.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

That's 11% of Bernie voters.

It's where you get the shift that matters. In close fought swing states, you lose voters to Trump, getting a bigger chunk in California doesn't really matter.

 

[senorgregster]

The man should be in a home.

He's been like this his entire life. In this video they strategically cut it off as he caught his words. My guess is he actually spoke sense right after. Something his next opponent is incapable of. Having said that, Trump will still capitalize on it.

 

[senorgregster]

he will be 78 wont he if he becomes president - 82 at the end of his first term... (if he makes it that far)
But yeah 86 would seem a big ask for anybody to do that job - which I guess does mean that there is a realistic possibility that should his win his vp might not only see out part of his term but then be the democrat nominee in 2024... and i guess if they win that in 2028 as well... so it really is a pretty important pick

We have to do a better selection process with these nominees. It came down to a man fresh off a heart attack and a 78 year old. Its beyond ridiculous to think these are the best 2 for the job.

 

[entropy]

He's been like this his entire life. In this video they strategically cut it off as he caught his words. My guess is he actually spoke sense right after. Something his next opponent is incapable of. Having said that, Trump will still capitalize on it.

That is literally how you don’t recognize dementia until it is too late. It is elder abuse.

 

[freeurmind]

It's where you get the shift that matters. In close fought swing states, you lose voters to Trump, getting a bigger chunk in California doesn't really matter.

In those 3 states you mentioned, that's 11% of the total that voted for Bernie.

 

[Revan]

I do love how smug some of the democrats who are all out to 'get' Joe Biden are going to feel when they hand the election to Donald Trump. Nothing shows up the left establishment more than giving a victory to the GOP.

I mean, what's the goal here? Can anyone explain it to me? Because it's clearly not:
- Stopping a wave of conservative judges at all levels determining laws according to their personal Zoom calls with Jesus and corporate donors
- Ending voter suppression and gerrymandering which is enabling a shrinking minority to govern a 'democracy'
- Putting in place people at the top of government who actually have some experience doing the jobs they're charged with
- Removing an unfit, human trashfire and his family and friends from running their country like a low-rent mob boss
- Pushing forward a (relatively) progressive agenda, expanding the ACA
- Returning America to the table of big boy conversations on a global scale

All those little 'nice to haves' are nothing compared to the sheer self-congratulating of these people. It's like the petty personal slight in a film that results in the main general getting killed by someone on his staff the night before the battle, and thus ensuring the war is lost.

By all means investigate Tara Reade's claim. But don't create a huge conspiracy theory and distraction right now. Let the process do its thing, and look at the goddamn big picture - because it's really f*cking important.

Feel better than the others, for sticking to their "principles", and having a higher moral ground. A bit like Liverpool fans when Liverpool was losing.

For the 'Bernie or bust' brigade, it has never been about real causes. It has been always about themselves and winning the internet wars.

 

[Revan]

Dems seem to be competitive in NC this cycle

+7 for senate race is huge if true. With it and Colorada essentially being in the bag (if the polls stand), then Dems need to win just another seat and defend Alabama (extremely unlikely), or win 2 seats. Arizona seems to lean towards Democrats at the moment. Then win one of Maine, or one of the Georgia elections, or one other long shot. But it doesn't look as unlikely as 6 months ago.

Of course, I am counting on Dems winning the presidency, so the VP can decide ties in case of 50-50 seats.

 

[Eboue]

Feel better than the others, for sticking to their "principles", and having a higher moral ground. A bit like Liverpool fans when Liverpool was losing.

For the 'Bernie or bust' brigade, it has never been about real causes. It has been always about themselves and winning the internet wars.

As usual you have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[Revan]

So does pushing the lesser evil for the umpteenth time.

And I’d be veeeeery surprised if the media don’t make hay out of the rape allegations in the run-up to the general.

What pushing? He won fair and square, and quite easily. It wasn't even close like last time. He was like 40+ when Bloomberg and Warren dropped (and before that Bloomberg who is a centrist was winning more votes than left-wing Warren). In every permutation that wasn't many centrists getting votes from Biden, and only one left-winger getting votes from Sanders, Biden was annihilating Sanders.

 

[Revan]

As usual you have no clue what you are talking about.

Go vote green and then bitch for the next 4 years on how GOP is destroying every cause you care about.

 

[Pexbo]

What pushing? He won fair and square, and quite easily. It wasn't even close like last time. He was like 40+ when Bloomberg and Warren dropped (and before that Bloomberg who is a centrist was winning more votes than left-wing Warren). In every permutation that wasn't many centrists getting votes from Biden, and only one left-winger getting votes from Sanders, Biden was annihilating Sanders.

In what planet is Bloomberg a centrist?

 

[Revan]

In what planet is Bloomberg a centrist?

In planet US.

Making left-right wing spectrum analogies in the US with Europe is kind of not helpful. Someone like Bernie (a 'commie' in the US) has very similar policies to a center-right European politician like Merkel or Macron.

 

[Eboue]

Go vote green and then bitch for the next 4 years on how GOP is destroying every cause you care about.

You are lashing out. You've repeatedly said that thousands upon thousands of people who you've never met don't care about actual causes and issues. It's very sad for you to be like this.

 

[Revan]

The man should be in a home.

It clearly is bad, but it is the type of thing Trump says all the time. Just yesterday he said that 'The President of the United States has the authority to do ... what the president has the authority to do'.

So, I don't know why sleepy Joe is going to be worse than sleepy Don. In all honesty, in neither of the Democrat debates he looked any worse than Trump any time when he opens his mouth.

 

[Eboue]

Imagine being an extremely online European obsessed with American politics for some reason and thinking "all the thousands of people who donate their time and money to a better world don't actually care about anything". Baffling how you could choose to live your life like this.

 

[Pexbo]

In planet US.

Making left-right wing spectrum analogies in the US with Europe is kind of not helpful. Someone like Bernie (a 'commie' in the US) has very similar policies to a center-right European politician like Merkel or Macron.

Bloomberg is not in the centre of the American political compass. It’s lazy to say he is just because he’s a Democrat. He’s way to the right of the party.