2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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The most obvious answer is that the Sanders movement has somehow not expanded since 2016.

In fact it has split, partly on gender grounds (Warren), and on age (Biden).
It *has* expanded in terms of race, with Latinos of all ages and better numbers among younger black voters. But this expansion isn't enough to make up for the sharper age split, and the effect of multiple candidates each taking a small sliver out of his base and then uniting it with Biden.
 
Hey, while you're at it..what do you think might be the answer to this?


i've been saying it since the nevada union fight about M4A - she cares less about healthcare or her policy goals than about either herself or the party-as-it-exists-today.
i.e. she would prefer the dems to be a corporate party than a grassroots party, or she would prefer that change only happen if she is in charge.
 
There are potentially some interesting answers to this question but it will mostly end in screming and blaming mainstream media.

My take:

  1. You can't win with just a hardcore base of ¬30% unless it is a winner takes all system as Trump benefited from in 2016 (coupled with the other republicans not coalescing). Especially when your core base is the most unreliable voting bloc.
  2. He's not against Hillary this time who despite being smarter and a better messenger than Biden, has always struggled with appearing 'likeable' and 'trustworthy'. Obama in 2008 famously made a dig at that before any Benghazi/Email scandals occurred.
  3. He's not an outsider shaking things up now. He has as much name recognition as anyone, he's been featured as a key voice in the anti-Trump resistance. People have had time to weigh him up when in 2016 he was fresh and raw.
  4. Twitter is not real life and I think like Corbyn in the UK, there is an over-importance on social media. Most people, including working class, don't care about the sociological battles of class solidarity. They don't like being scolded to about what is best for them. Right wing populism wins more than left wing populism because the right wing convince people there will be less government and regulations are bad for business, bad for economics and immigration needs curtailing. Totally false in my mind but extremely narrow as a political platform compared to left wing populism which proposes too many things at once. People want wealthy folks to pay their share or be penalised but there comes a point where class politics becomes grievance politics. Neither of these two men speak much about how they propose generating wealth as they do redistributing it.
  5. Progressives say Obama ran as one and won. Maybe so but he ran on uniting people and not dividing by using labels. There was a candid, personal way of him reaching out to others. People like that. Decrying the 'establishment' not so much because when you've been a politician for four decades, aren't you the establishment?
If AOC runs in the future she could win because these young voters today will grow up and stay engaged and more importantly get involved. She has more personality and a better personal story, she has more to her than a standard stump speech. And more importantly she could have a CV of getting things done. The left will get stronger with better leaders.
 
Barack Obama is likely a key factor in what is happening behind the scene without a doubt. He is kinda like a double edge sword with a sharp and dull edge. He is great at oratory and building alliances within the democratic party. But his leadership regarding how the party do national politics plays right into the Republican play book and this is why the Republicans have generally done extremely well since he got into office. When the Republicans smear the Democrats with a lot of hateful rhetoric, and this includes Obama him self and his family while the centrists seek to work with the same people that smear their names, then you look really weak and spineless as a party.

The Republicans have outplayed the democrats for the last 10 years as they know how to play the game on a national level in terms of perception. They are going to do the same mistake by playing into the republican hands by nominating a candidate that is not mentally well and will look weak and confused while speaking. Biden is going to give the Republicans all the ammo they need and they wont be afraid utilizing every bit of it to their advantage. Bernie Sanders is not the perfect candidate either but he is both physically well and still mentally able to do such a job. If the centrists had adopted at least some of the idea´s Bernie Sanders promote then the party would have looked a lot more unified and stronger in the presidential election. It looks like the centrists are going all in with this even though a lose would be extremely terrible with a even stronger republican packed court system including the supreme court. There is zero chance that Ruby Ginsburg lasts another 4 years.

The Republican party is excellent at adapting politically while the democrats are busy fighting against change within the party it self no matter the consequences. This will be the key factor in the coming election in my mind.
 
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The most obvious answer is that the Sanders movement has somehow not expanded since 2016.
@berbatrick analysis is spot on.

The only thing I can add is the Bernie campaign is clearly a moral and ethical appeal for socialism in the vein of say christian socialism.Which comes with both some positives and negatives, the positives being it can put across ideas in a very simple and powerful manner but the negatives being it leaves you totally confused on the current state of things, one minute you're saying ''we need a political revolution'' and then 2 minutes later.......''My platform isn't radical change'', rather than ideas coming out of people material conditions, they are just arguments that can used to convince anyone.



The fixation on ideas and arguments(Basically of left wing version of the West Wing)leads to thinking simply talking about mass movements, somehow means they will just appear in front of us(The whole theory of the Sander campaign was to basically give him the biggest loud speaker on the planet - the presidency of the United States). And then in policy terms this type of socialism limits the ability of its own future, compare the Jobs For All program of Bernie to the Labour Party 4 Day Working Week, the full employment policy comes out of protestant view of a proud workerism,. The issue for the Sanders campaign isn't waged labour itself being awful but that people are having to work a number of jobs to survive, where as Labour hated the idea of work(Corbyn was promising a bank holiday for any old shit). Plus current polling shows that people are confident in the american economy, now that looks like it could very well change but until it does, Bernie's program was also going to be very difficult to sell(Which no one has pointed out)

Also while I get the linking of the Bernie and Corbyn, we are comparing a failed general election campaign to a primary. There's more to say Corbyn was at fault(Nearly 5 years as party leader)but also the appeal of Sanders platform if he does now lose to Biden was never that popular to begin with. :(

Hey, while you're at it..what do you think might be the answer to this? i don't think we will get an honest answer.

I've always took the vulgar view(Out of sheer laziness) that Warren was never really a progressive(Whatever the words means today) and that she was similar to obama - basically the left convinced ourselves that this person wasn't somehow a conservative. Warren was a republican until the age of 40, a republican during the Reagan years(Which is like being a tory during thatcher).



Having said that I think her failure to support Bernie and her supporters demanding that people be nice online, is them enjoying their ideology(Technocratic liberal feminism), their reluctancy to back Bernie is them not wanting to take the step out of their ideology(Which is something the left might have to do pretty soon as well, sadly)because while we can debate what 21st century ''Democratic Socialism'' actually means, at the very least it's a view that the current system can only be improved when working class americans organise to fight against it and for Warren and her supporters that will be a painful answer to agree with.

And to put it very crudely, most of Warren support is rich white women(And men who refer to themselves as feminists), they view politics as basically a television show, where every 4 years they get to pick a new leading star and this time they are mad because the two contestants left are both old white dudes.
 
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i've been saying it since the nevada union fight about M4A - she cares less about healthcare or her policy goals than about either herself or the party-as-it-exists-today.
i.e. she would prefer the dems to be a corporate party than a grassroots party, or she would prefer that change only happen if she is in charge.

oh wow. It’s almost as if a privileged white women grifted her supporters, took their money and turned her back to support a racist who has a terrible record on abortion.
 
I'll take that. In a million years she will be dead so there is that. That being said, the South (which every 10 years grows and gets more electoral college votes) will never vote for someone that progressive. The gender/colour may have something to do with it now, but it's her progressive nature that will keep her from being voted in.

I disagree..Texas for example could go blue in the next couple elections
 
@Sweet Square this is the generation that's keeping bernard afloat, may god have mercy on us all
Oh christ!

Also the town seem to go down well




Bernie - Are these radical ideas.

Audience - Noooooo!

Me -

0.jpg


''I was saying no to but maybe possible one day reforms could lead to a renewed working class movement ''
 
Oh christ!

Also the town seem to go down well




Bernie - Are these radical ideas.

Audience - Noooooo!

Me -

0.jpg


''I was saying no to but maybe possible one day reforms could lead to a renewed working class movement ''

Post boomer, post Trump /McConnell the Democrats of today will become the new Republicans with the likes of Kasich running the show, and the progressives will become the new Dems. Ideally anyway.
 
Oh christ!

Also the town seem to go down well




Bernie - Are these radical ideas.

Audience - Noooooo!

Me -

0.jpg


''I was saying no to but maybe possible one day reforms could lead to a renewed working class movement ''


nothing new re being a success at a fox town hall or his "not a radical idea" messaging.
fir the 1st, he did literally this before (with an even better response). for the 2nd, it's a new line he's been using in 2020 not much in 2016. i guess it's supposed to be en electability line but honestly he should either make that explicit or not use it.
 
and i forget the exact numbers but among dem registered voters who watch a particular tv station, he does best among fox and worst among msnbc
 
Oh christ!

Also the town seem to go down well




Bernie - Are these radical ideas.

Audience - Noooooo!

Me -

0.jpg


''I was saying no to but maybe possible one day reforms could lead to a renewed working class movement ''

Great speech from him.
 
The whole thing is here and is worth a watch.
Shows his usual strengths and weaknesses - bullying Brett Baier, talking convincingly on healthcare, getting the audience on-side, refusing to attack Biden, very populist answers on "socialism"...
 
Bernie's cabinet picks would likely be similar. Cabinet picks and department heads are based on having relevant experience and vetted for him. Trump making his choices based on loyalty to him first and foremost is an anomaly.
Not that it matters but anyone with zero govt experience shouldn't be near any cabinet position. Especially someone who was responsible for tanking the economy recently.
 
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Would be interesting to see what happens if Biden gets nominated
  1. If he wins, he may probably kill the hard left forever that America is a country of centrists
  2. If he loses, finally we can begin to coalesce around AOC for 2024.
But I fully believe the moderate camp will again blame the hard left and find a more 'centrist' candidate. FML

American politics doesn't have a hard left
 
This article from 2016 really holds true for Biden. From the author of The New Jim Crow, Michelle Alexander. Anyone voting for this racist doesn't really understand the sheer damage he inflicted upon black families for generations. From basic housing to food stamps to having access to basic education while imprisoned or something as simple as access reading or writing material while in prison...his crime bill goes out of its way to handicap black families.
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
Bill Clinton championed discriminatory laws against formerly incarcerated people that have kept millions of Americans locked in a cycle of poverty and desperation. The Clinton administration eliminated Pell grants for prisoners seeking higher education to prepare for their release, supported laws denying federal financial aid to students with drug convictions, and signed legislation imposing a lifetime ban on welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—an exceptionally harsh provision given the racially biased drug war that was raging in inner cities.

Perhaps most alarming, Clinton also made it easier for public-housing agencies to deny shelter to anyone with any sort of criminal history (even an arrest without conviction) and championed the “one strike and you’re out” initiative, which meant that families could be evicted from public housing because one member (or a guest) had committed even a minor offense. People released from prison with no money, no job, and nowhere to go could no longer return home to their loved ones living in federally assisted housing without placing the entire family at risk of eviction. Purging “the criminal element” from public housing played well on the evening news, but no provisions were made for people and families as they were forced out on the street. By the end of Clinton’s presidency, more than half of working-age African-American men in many large urban areas were saddled with criminal records and subject to legalized discrimination in employment, housing, access to education, and basic public benefits—relegated to a permanent second-class status eerily reminiscent of Jim Crow.

It is difficult to overstate the damage that’s been done. Generations have been lost to the prison system; countless families have been torn apart or rendered homeless; and a school-to-prison pipeline has been born that shuttles young people from their decrepit, underfunded schools to brand-new high-tech prisons.
 
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Even worse, he gave that answer to a softball "would you veto a compromise M4A plan".

The mask has fully slipped off now.

To be fair he said 'I would delay anything that would delay healthcare being available now'. It would be interesting to see what does he say after the clip ends.
 
To be fair he said 'I would delay anything that would delay healthcare being available now'. It would be interesting to see what does he say after the clip ends.

in response to a question about a house and senate backed compromise on M4A legislation. It's the biggest softball you could get, the answer is "I would work with my colleagues to pass healthcare legislation and will sign any legislation backed by my colleagues on healthcare." He's now saying he'd veto fully backed legislation from his own colleagues based on some personal notion of "how long it will take". ALSO implying democrats would send him bad legislation.

CHRIST ON A BIKE.....just say the simple answer. :lol:
 
Lessons From Super Tuesday: Stop Ignoring Black Voters of Faith!




This is something that Bernie needs to address .Just saying i was there on the civil marches is not enough.
 
Lessons From Super Tuesday: Stop Ignoring Black Voters of Faith!




This is something that Bernie needs to address
.Just saying i was there on the civil marches is not enough.


Sadly its way too late for that now. The one thing progressive politicians need to bear in mind going into future elections is that it is absolutely vital that they build early relationships with different constituencies.
 
Sadly its way too late for that now. The one thing progressive politicians need to bear in mind going into future elections is that it is absolutely vital that they build early relationships with different constituencies.
The sad state of identity politics.
 
Lessons From Super Tuesday: Stop Ignoring Black Voters of Faith!




This is something that Bernie needs to address .Just saying i was there on the civil marches is not enough.


He should've started building a coalition with the groups who aren't voting for him now, immediately after he dropped out in early 16.
 
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