2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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That was certainly Biden's night. Hopefully Bloomberg and Warren drop out now since it was a disaster for them. Make it the clean one on one.

The Ukraine onslaught will begin today I'm sure. Hopefully Bloomberg continues to fund the onslaught of ads against Trump and funds some serious voter registration schemes in parallel, especially in swing states where voter suppression is occurring. I've always thought the path to victory was getting additional voters rather than changing the minds of the seemingly rabid Trump supporters.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If Warren is part of the establishment and she hasn't dropped out, doesn't that imply that the conspiracy idea is invalid?

She hasn't dropped out because she has accumulated enough money (https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/candidate-and-outside-committees-totals) and she likely has no more than one chance after this to run for the presidency if a Democrat doesn't win this one. So it makes all the sense for her to wait and test the waters on Super Tuesday. Now it appears inevitable that she'll suspend her campaign sooner than later as well.

The donors not donating to candidates who aren't faring well is pretty much part of the cycle and that's how campaigns run out of money.

Its not like Biden is running uncontested for the moderate vote either, he is sharing the ideology spectrum with Bloomberg who has more money than he knows what to do with and he is still running as well.
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Warren takes away votes from Sanders. That is not mutually exclusive from being part of the establishment. Seems like you're more interested in telling Sanders fans why they're being wrong instead of engaging with the reality of the siutation. Klobuchar had no path to victory since Nevada. Why did she pull out when she did?
ChaddyP said:
Quick question. Is Bloomberg part of the "establishment" and if yes what's his role in this conspiracy to propel Biden.
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Being a centrist and being part of the establishment are not mutually inclusive, no. How many of the big donors have contributed to Bloomberg?

I find it odd that people are so sceptical of the idea that existing power structures will protect themselves when under threat by going on the attack. Sanders openly attacked them, and they're the dominant power structure. Why is that final component such a big leap?
 
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Would Warren staying in the race until the convention essentially mean she's taking a run at being Biden's VP pick?
 
That's it for healthcare. Hope everyone likes high premiums and prescription drug prices.
Bernie got too riled up when Bloomberg entered the race, knocked him off message in the debates.

I don't see Biden beating Trump. Don't think progressives will be falling over themselves to go out and vote for him. Turnout in this primary has to be a big red flag for whoever the nominee is regarding the general.
 
Raulduke said:
Would Warren staying in the race until the convention essentially mean she's taking a run at being Biden's VP pick?
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I don't even think it's that simple. I think she's convinced herself that she can be seen as the third choice at the convention should no one get majority :wenger:
 
senorgregster said:
That was certainly Biden's night. Hopefully Bloomberg and Warren drop out now since it was a disaster for them. Make it the clean one on one.

The Ukraine onslaught will begin today I'm sure. Hopefully Bloomberg continues to fund the onslaught of ads against Trump and funds some serious voter registration schemes in parallel, especially in swing states where voter suppression is occurring. I've always thought the path to victory was getting additional voters rather than changing the minds of the seemingly rabid Trump supporters.
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Voter suppression is already well under way evidenced by the long lines in Texas and Cali last night.
 
WPMUFC said:
Huh? Exit polls are highlighting Joe getting a nice chunk of vote because perceived electability against Trump. My argument is that is probably the worst reason to vote for someone and the consequence of that in a GE should it backfire. At least your post actually makes sense as a reason to vote for someone. Not really sure where you thought you were going with that post :lol:
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Those things aren't mutually exclusive. There likely aren't people who think they would benefit from Bernie's policies but not voting for him just because he won't be "electable".

As is often the case, people sometimes don't articulate their thoughts in terms of machine polling or respond to the question being posed so if the polling person asks them if electability factored into their vote, then they'd say yes.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Aren't you contradicting yourself here? If Warren is part of the establishment and she hasn't dropped out, doesn't that imply that the conspiracy idea is invalid?
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I don't think he is, since Warren dropping out would actually help Sanders.

Wednesday at Stoke said:
She hasn't dropped out because she has accumulated enough money (https://www.opensecrets.org/2020-presidential-race/candidate-and-outside-committees-totals) and she likely has no more than one chance after this to run for the presidency if a Democrat doesn't win this one. So it makes all the sense for her to wait and test the waters on Super Tuesday. Now it appears inevitable that she'll suspend her campaign sooner than later as well.

The donors not donating to candidates who aren't faring well is pretty much part of the cycle and that's how campaigns run out of money.

Its not like Biden is running uncontested for the moderate vote either, he is sharing the ideology spectrum with Bloomberg who has more money than he knows what to do with and he is still running as well.
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Wouldn't it be better for her to follow a president like Sanders, who shares a lot of what she's trying to achieve, rather than Biden or a second Trump term ? In that sens, she should be for a president like him rather than Biden.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
This twitter idea that somehow the DNC is squeezing Sanders out is a Trump talking point and no surprise its resounding well around the internet debates for people who don't understand how American political campaigns work.

Candidates who couldn't see a viable path forward and couldn't continue campaigning because it takes money to run these massive campaigns dropped out, as it happens naturally every election cycle. Sanders has been working with the same advantage until now as there were fewer options on the left of the democratic party to split votes with him and now Biden has naturally arrived at that place as the race touches on states where he is projected to do better.

Unlike you, I'm more than happy to offer more information for the logically deprived. So go ahead and grab your shine box.
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That's me put in my lane, make sure you get your enlightened last word in after this. Stand by my first post, you could have quoted me and shared your opinion. Instead got a smug post trying to demonstrate a superior understanding of US politics, that gives your perception and ultimately opinion of the events that have happened in the last few hours. I don't need a dumb dumb post recycling the news. I was sharing my disappointment of the events unfolding.
 
Brwned said:
Warren takes away votes from Sanders. That is not mutually exclusive from being part of the establishment. Seems like you're more interested in telling Sanders fans why they're being wrong instead of engaging with the reality of the siutation. Klobuchar had no path to victory since Nevada. Why did she pull out when she did?


Being a centrist and being part of the establishment are not mutually inclusive, no. How many of the big donors have contributed to Bloomberg?

I find it odd that people are so sceptical of the idea that existing power structures will protect themselves when under threat by going on the attack. Sanders openly attacked them, and they're the dominant power structure. Why is that final component such a big leap?
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Ok, lets assume Klobuchar and Pete stretched their campaign dollars and stayed in the race, accumulate a few delegates here and there and then quit later when the money completely runs out, what do you think happens to those delegates? Do they move to Bernie at the convention or Biden? Do you think there are a lot of people out there whose first choice is Pete or Amy and their second choice would have been Bernie?
 
Brwned said:
Warren takes away votes from Sanders. That is not mutually exclusive from being part of the establishment. Seems like you're more interested in telling Sanders fans why they're being wrong instead of engaging with the reality of the siutation. Klobuchar had no path to victory since Nevada. Why did she pull out when she did?


Being a centrist and being part of the establishment are not mutually inclusive, no. How many of the big donors have contributed to Bloomberg?

I find it odd that people are so sceptical of the idea that existing power structures will protect themselves when under threat by going on the attack. Sanders openly attacked them, and they're the dominant power structure. Why is that final component such a big leap?
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He's a registered Democrat And former republican like Warren. Why is he not establishment but she is? Bloomberg is a huge reason dems won the house. He has backed more dems with his money than I can remember. Bloomberg doesn't have big diners be uses he is one of the single biggest doners of the democratic party.
 
Mr H said:
Wouldn't it be better for her to follow a president like Sanders, who shares a lot of what she's trying to achieve, rather than Biden or a second Trump term ? In that sens, she should be for a president like him rather than Biden.
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She has been on Bernie's case for not being able to articulate how he is going to fund his policy initiatives for the longest time. Her whole "I have a plan for that" shtick is a direct shot at Sanders.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Ok, lets assume Klobuchar and Pete stretched their campaign dollars and stayed in the race, accumulate a few delegates here and there and then quit later when the money completely runs out, what do you think happens to those delegates? Do they move to Bernie at the convention or Biden? Do you think there are a lot of people out there whose first choice is Pete or Amy and their second choice would have been Bernie?
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I'm not really sure what's happening here. Biden had a huge, unexpected surge in votes and took so many of the late voters - in some cases an unprecedented number of people who made their choice on the day of the votes, according to the exit polls - because those centrist candidates dropped out and others endorsed him at the right time. It was a demonstrably strategic move, and it was very well executed. What led to Biden's overperformance, based on most estimates, was the momentum. Things were moving in his direction which made it an easier choice for others to jump on board. He was racing ahead and they wanted to pick a winner.

Again it seems like you're more interested in telling other people they're wrong rather than engaging with the reality of the situation.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not really sure what's happening here. Biden had a huge, unexpected surge in votes and took so many of the late voters - in some cases an unprecedented number of people who made their choice on the day of the votes, according to the exit polls - because those centrist candidates dropped out and others endorsed him at the right time. It was a demonstrably strategic move, and it was very well executed. What led to Biden's overperformance, based on most estimates, was the momentum. Things were moving in his direction which made it an easier choice for others to jump on board. He was racing ahead and they wanted to pick a winner.

Again it seems like you're more interested in telling other people they're wrong rather than engaging with the reality of the situation.
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I'm not trying to tell people why they are wrong, I'm only downplaying this idea of a collusion against Sanders when there are perfectly adequate explanations for what's unfolding.

For all we know, Biden would have done very well in the Super Tuesday states he has won just like he did in South Carolina even with Amy/Pete on the ballot. Do you think Amy/Pete would have endorsed Sanders, a person they have no ideological bent towards if they quit the race a few weeks later? Now I buy the idea that they likely wanted to avoid a hung convention as they go to Milwaukee and they decided to expedite towards a nominee in Biden.

Bernie did the same thing last time where he surged in the early states and then came back down to earth once the primaries moved towards super Tuesday and southern states where Clinton mopped the floor.
 
ravi2 said:
I read somewhere that less than 18% of voters under 25 voted, and only 20% under 35 voted. The youth did not turn out. I think it's over for Bernie and Trump will win again.
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Crazy numbers.
 
ChaddyP said:
He's a registered Democrat And former republican like Warren. Why is he not establishment but she is? Bloomberg is a huge reason dems won the house. He has backed more dems with his money than I can remember. Bloomberg doesn't have big diners be uses he is one of the single biggest doners of the democratic party.
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Bloomberg entered the race because he didn't think the establishment had picked a winner, and his primary motivation was to defeat Trump. He has a lot in common with the establishment but it is not a small factor that he is not at the whims of the big donors. They are the ones who decide when Pete and Klobuchar have to stop. Money has a huge role in American politics. Ultimately he'll support Biden if he loses, particularly by investing significant funds into attacking Trump, and so he is useful to the establishment - he's obviously not a threat like Sanders. But he's also not under their control because of his financial independence, and he doesn't yet appear to be an ally because he doesn't seem to think Biden is a strong enough candidate to want to support.

Wednesday at Stoke said:
I'm not trying to tell people why they are wrong, I'm only downplaying this idea of a collusion against Sanders when there are perfectly adequate explanations for what's unfolding.

For all we know, Biden would have done very well in the Super Tuesday states he has won just like he did in South Carolina even with Amy/Pete on the ballot. Do you think Amy/Pete would have endorsed Sanders, a person they have no ideological bent towards if they quit the race a few weeks later? Now I buy the idea that they likely wanted to avoid a hung convention as they go to Milwaukee and they decided to expedite towards a nominee in Biden.

Bernie did the same thing last time where he surged in the early states and then came back down to earth once the primaries moved towards super Tuesday and southern states where Clinton mopped the floor.
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No I don't think they would have endorsed Sanders. Yes I think they would have endorsed Biden at a later point. Yes I think Biden would have done well on Super Tuesday anyway.

The point is they did it in an obviously co-ordinated way to maximise the harm to Sanders, the biggest threat to their political ideology, and it created the momentum for Biden that almost every political analyst is saying led to a significant overperformance driven by an unusual number of late voters. They conspired to beat him using that strategic move, and they succeeded. Neither of those things are outrageous. It made sense for the establishment to do that.
 
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Looking at the exit polls from Cnn. Biden overwhelming got the Black vote. This isn't over, because Sanders getting a huge win in california could still put him in a decent position. A debate with Biden vs Bernie will be extremely important for Bernie to stop the momentum.

Biden... Not Bernie bringing out turnout is staggering though
 
freeurmind said:
That's it for healthcare. Hope everyone likes high premiums and prescription drug prices.
Bernie got too riled up when Bloomberg entered the race, knocked him off message in the debates.

I don't see Biden beating Trump. Don't think progressives will be falling over themselves to go out and vote for him. Turnout in this primary has to be a big red flag for whoever the nominee is regarding the general.
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Healthcare wouldn’t have changed much in either case since Sanders wouldn’t have the votes to implement his plan.
 
Denis79 said:
Crazy numbers.
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Over the last 50 years, 18-24 year olds have had a voter participation rate of 20% in the mid-term elections - 2018 was the first time it went above 30% since 1970. Expecting much more than that in the primaries was expecting a miracle. They barely get up to 40% in the general election.
 
Brwned said:
Warren takes away votes from Sanders. That is not mutually exclusive from being part of the establishment. Seems like you're more interested in telling Sanders fans why they're being wrong instead of engaging with the reality of the siutation. Klobuchar had no path to victory since Nevada. Why did she pull out when she did?


Being a centrist and being part of the establishment are not mutually inclusive, no. How many of the big donors have contributed to Bloomberg?

I find it odd that people are so sceptical of the idea that existing power structures will protect themselves when under threat by going on the attack. Sanders openly attacked them, and they're the dominant power structure. Why is that final component such a big leap?
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Partly because the word conspiracy has been tainted (by conspiracy ironically enough) so people are frightened to death to believe in the possibility of any conspiracy anywhere. It's crazy and really interesting at the same time especially when you consider human nature - Conspiracy is very much a given in all power structures.
 
ravi2 said:
I read somewhere that less than 18% of voters under 25 voted, and only 20% under 35 voted. The youth did not turn out. I think it's over for Bernie and Trump will win again.
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I just dont get people who dont vote,more so the youth who seem to be alot more politically active than I was in the early 00's.
 
Brwned said:
Over the last 50 years, 18-24 year olds have had a voter participation rate of 20% in the mid-term elections - 2018 was the first time it went above 30% since 1970. Expecting much more than that in the primaries was expecting a miracle. They barely get up to 40% in the general election.
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I'm wondering if Sanders poor history on gun safety reform may have suppressed turnout for him? That and climate change seem to be the only thing that gets them out.
 
freeurmind said:
That's it for healthcare. Hope everyone likes high premiums and prescription drug prices.
Bernie got too riled up when Bloomberg entered the race, knocked him off message in the debates.

I don't see Biden beating Trump. Don't think progressives will be falling over themselves to go out and vote for him. Turnout in this primary has to be a big red flag for whoever the nominee is regarding the general.
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Was turnout low in general? In Virginia it was absolutely through the roof.
 
FrankDrebin said:
It has to be more to it than that,Shirley ?
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Its a combination of Obama and perceived electability and to be fair if my news sources was primarily mainstream or cable news id think Bernie was crazy and the only hope of beating Trump is biden or whoever centrist candidate they get behind.
 
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