2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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fishfingers15 said:
I don't know NewGlory :nervous:

I'm amazed how much we hate on people we more or less agree with most of the time just because we happen to argue back and forth in social media. I'm sure Revan is a progressive person who would heartily support Bernie Sanders but is now put off from him because of the antics of Eboue and Red Dreams. Now I don't think Eboue and Red Dreams are bad people, but they have an argument style which is a big turn off for many.

Feeling pretty deflated tonight with the results. Will have to take a break from this thread.
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It's not my fault some people don't know how to use an ignore function.

NewGlory is some bloke who had a go at me for literally over nothing and has had it against me ever since. Spent some time in this thread with a nasty attitude and kept addressing me as Bernie Bro. Seems to have left, thankfully. Some of these other new cats seem pretty cool and I appreciate their perspective. But yeah, I don't have time for people who resort to the same old rehashed terms like Bernie being the God savior when it's been explained multiple times that his campaign is not that at all. And I'm sick of the Trump voter comparisons for having the nerve to show a little passion. Like yeah, that's gonna make me want to vote for Biden sooo much.
 
Suedesi said:
The establishment won
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Oh please. Fox News is trump tv. Moderates with the same values and same proposals saw the writing on the wall that they were splitting the vote and giving the nom to Sanders. They consolidated and this is the result. That's not some conspiracy. Millions of people spoke tonight
 
Hamnat said:
Oh please. Fox News is trump tv. Moderates with the same values and same proposals saw the writing on the wall that they were splitting the vote and giving the nom to Sanders. They consolidated and this is the result. That's not some conspiracy. Millions of people spoke tonight
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Millions of people are so easily swayed by these efforts though. Many of these liberals are glued to MSNBC and if you listen to them enough, you'll start believing in their bullshit. The coordinated effort has it's part to play too and it was ALL about stopping Sanders, let's not kid ourselves.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Centrist dude who turned up out of nowhere ready to set us all straight with his superior analysis. Didn't go down well.
The plan is to be an effective opponent of Sanders and gain good will within the Democratic party. She does not need to reach high percentages to do that.
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Bernie can't blame tonight's loss on Warren. Not with Bloomberg in there as a spoiler for Biden as well. Here is a tidbit- "On the other end of the spectrum, Sanders won 51 percent in his home state of Vermont. In 2016, he won 86 percent there and managed to keep Clinton below 15 percent. But Biden managed to clear the 15 percent threshold there with 22 percent."

Bernie supporters have been ignoring some hard truths. He has not been able to increase the turnout as was prophesied. He has not been able to increase his coalition considerably from 2016 base. If anything it is starting to seem that a good portion of his support in 2016 was the anti-Clinton wing of Dem base rather than one solely enamoured by his policies. If he finishes behind in delegate count today, there is no path for him to the nomination bar Biden getting an official diagnosis of dementia.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Centrist dude who turned up out of nowhere ready to set us all straight with his superior analysis. Didn't go down well.
The plan is to be an effective opponent of Sanders and gain good will within the Democratic party. She does not need to reach high percentages to do that.
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So, effectively Warren 2024?
 
crappycraperson said:
Bernie can't blame tonight's loss on Warren. Not with Bloomberg in there as a spoiler for Biden as well. Here is a tidbit- "On the other end of the spectrum, Sanders won 51 percent in his home state of Vermont. In 2016, he won 86 percent there and managed to keep Clinton below 15 percent. But Biden managed to clear the 15 percent threshold there with 22 percent."

Bernie supporters have been ignoring some hard truths. He has not been able to increase the turnout as was prophesied. He has not been able to increase his coalition considerably from 2016 base. If anything it is starting to seem that a good portion of his support in 2016 was the anti-Clinton wing of Dem base rather than one solely enamoured by his policies. If he finishes behind in delegate count today, there is no path for him to the nomination bar Biden getting an official diagnosis of dementia.
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Warren is nowhere near the main issue, no. The question I was addressing was whether her heart is in the place she wants us to think it is and I think it clearly is not.
 
Florida Man said:
Millions of people are so easily swayed by these efforts though. Many of these liberals are glued to MSNBC and if you listen to them enough, you'll start believing in their bullshit. The coordinated effort has it's part to play too and it was ALL about stopping Sanders, let's not kid ourselves.
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Of course it was about stopping Sanders. They don't believe in his policies. It isn't that hard to digest. And that is not a conspiracy. They made it very clear that they think these policies don't have a shot in hell at being enacted and they would cost so much he cant explain how to pay for them.

Again I voted for him but the reality is people agreed that Bernie hasn't done the job of selling himself and his policies. He didn't bring the coalition he said would show up for him. The high turnout was there but for Biden. He said he had a multi racial multi generational coalition in his speech tonight. Well the exit polls are right there for anyone to see tonight. Is that true?
 
crappycraperson said:
Bernie can't blame tonight's loss on Warren. Not with Bloomberg in there as a spoiler for Biden as well. Here is a tidbit- "On the other end of the spectrum, Sanders won 51 percent in his home state of Vermont. In 2016, he won 86 percent there and managed to keep Clinton below 15 percent. But Biden managed to clear the 15 percent threshold there with 22 percent."

Bernie supporters have been ignoring some hard truths. He has not been able to increase the turnout as was prophesied. He has not been able to increase his coalition considerably from 2016 base. If anything it is starting to seem that a good portion of his support in 2016 was the anti-Clinton wing of Dem base rather than one solely enamoured by his policies. If he finishes behind in delegate count today, there is no path for him to the nomination bar Biden getting an official diagnosis of dementia.
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I accept the hard truths now but I also accept that the 24/7 media onslaught was far more effective than I originally thought. Moderate and older voters do watch these programs after all.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Warren is nowhere near the main issue, no. The question I was addressing was whether her heart is in the place she wants us to think it is and I think it clearly is not.
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It should be obvious at this point. @Red Dreams says some crazy shit but he was right about her from long ago. @Eboue too. She was in this to further herself and diddled us all in the process.
 
Hamnat said:
Of course it was about stopping Sanders. They don't believe in his policies. It isn't that hard to digest. And that is not a conspiracy. They made it very clear that they think these policies don't have a shot in hell at being enacted and they would cost so much he cant explain how to pay for them.

Again I voted for him but the reality is people agreed that Bernie hasn't done the job of selling himself and his policies. He didn't bring the coalition he said would show up for him. The high turnout was there but for Biden. He said he had a multi racial multi generational coalition in his speech tonight. Well the exit polls are right there for anyone to see tonight. Is that true?
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I wasn't disagreeing with you other than the part about conspiring against him.
 
I am a social scientist with considerable evo-psyche tendencies, at heart.

My main takeaway from the last half decade in politics is that I'm increasingly sceptical that the amphibious squids that will rise to dominance after we kill ourselves are unlikely to learn from our mistakes.
 
Tarrou said:
what do people see in Biden?

it's going to be a slaughter vs Trump
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The great old days of Obama where everything was right because he could speak well. They're so fixated on removing Trump they forgot the possibility of another "Trump" after a hypothetical disappointing Biden presidency.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
I am a social scientist with considerable evo-psyche tendencies, at heart.

My main takeaway from the last half decade in politics is that I'm increasingly sceptical that the amphibious squids that will rise to dominance after we kill ourselves are unlikely to learn from our mistakes.
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I still believe in the squids.
 
Florida Man said:
The great old days of Obama where everything was right because he could speak well. They're so fixated on removing Trump they forgot the possibility of another "Trump" after a hypothetical disappointing Biden presidency.
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I think this is something deeper than that.

Look at their core constituencies now, urbanite college educates (esp. women), suburban housewives, working professionals in education, tech, finance, and the PoCs.

Bar the last group, it basically is the 60, 70s Republican voting base make up. They are more socially liberal than their past counterparts, but it’s not a surprise they vote with their wallet.
 
Florida Man said:
The great old days of Obama where everything was right because he could speak well. They're so fixated on removing Trump they forgot the possibility of another "Trump" after a hypothetical disappointing Biden presidency.
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The entire society is slightly going towards the left, and Trump voters are for a large part old white men, so it is gonna be hard to have a new Trump IMO.

No one has ever said that Obama was perfect (for example, even as a fan of him, I think that his foreign policy was a disaster, and he should have done much more on his first 2 years when he had walked the election and controlled the senate and the house), but he was a quite good president, a large net positive, while acknowledging that the 'rating' for him is possibly amplified by him being in between two of the worst presidents in history. Going back to 'Obama days' would be quite good compared to the current crap we have.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I think this is something deeper than that.

Look at their core constituencies now, urbanite college educates (esp. women), suburban housewives, working professionals in education, tech, finance, and the PoCs.

Bar the last group, it basically is the 60, 70s Republican voting base make up. They are more socially liberal than their past counterparts, but it’s not a surprise they vote with their wallet.
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Essentially people too inconvenienced by bold change. They got theirs now, why change it? I'm in that same group. College educated, good job (not right now bc transplant and stuff), middle/upper-middle class neighborhood, professional high skilled industry in tech, person of color (brown). I still sympathize with the working class and want a system that benefits them hugely. Probably helps that I have a lot of family who work so hard in Hawaii but barely scrape above the poverty level if even. I don't forget my roots.
 
Hamnat said:
Oh please. Fox News is trump tv. Moderates with the same values and same proposals saw the writing on the wall that they were splitting the vote and giving the nom to Sanders. They consolidated and this is the result. That's not some conspiracy. Millions of people spoke tonight
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No one is debating the result - what I'm saying is with millions of people making up their minds in the last 2-3 days and the dramatic drops from the race and subsequent consolidation of the vote makes me think it was highly choreographed and coordinated.

Democratic donors and some party elders got together and decided to stop Bernie. They told Amy and Pete to yield or else they'd never see another $ in campaign contributions. Then they generated some red scare on the media coupled with positive coverage of a victorious Biden in SC. That's it - the millions of American voters who are mostly uninformed and base their decisions on image went with the flow.

This is very transparent.

Democracy my ass - in the end, you still have 5 people calling the shots.
 
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maniak said:
Trump it is then.
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He is the favorite, but less favorite than would have been against Bernie.

In general, the Dems had a pretty bad crop of candidates this time. Bernie probably the best of a bad bunch (my opinion on Warren has radically shifted during the election), with Biden probably the most electable candidate from a bad bunch.

I think that even a generic Democrat candidate (like Kerry 2004, or Biden before his tragedy) would have been a favorite against Trump, but somehow, the Dems were not able to even offer that.
 
Suedesi said:
No one is debating the result - what I'm saying is with millions of people making up their minds in the last 2-3 days and the dramatic drops from the race and subsequent consolidation of the vote makes me think it was choreographed and coordinated.

Democratic donors and some party elders got together and decided to stop Bernie. They told Amy and Pete to yield or else they'd never another $ in campaign contributions. Then they generated some red scare on the media coupled with positive coverage of a victorious Biden in SC. That's it - the millions of American voters who are mostly uninformed and base their decisions on image went with the flow.

This is very transparent.

Democracy my ass - in the end, you still 5 people calling the shots.
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Pretty true, something that has happened always.

Sanders should have run with mostly the same ideas (probably slightly watered down), but without tags of 'socialism' and 'revolution', in order to have a good shot.
 
I turned on CNN when I woke up and Lemon was having an orgasm talking about Biden's amazing night. I think we in this forum, because we are so connected online, tend to assume reddit or twitter and other social media somehow represent the general voter. The truth is TV is still the big boy in influencing people and Bernie was crushed there.
 
maniak said:
I turned on CNN when I woke up and Lemon was having an orgasm talking about Biden's amazing night. I think we in this forum, because we are so connected online, tend to assume reddit or twitter and other social media somehow represent the general voter. The truth is TV is still the big boy in influencing people and Bernie was crushed there.
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Trump won largely cause of Facebook and Twitter. TV is still important, but a good campaign in social media is as important.
 
maniak said:
I turned on CNN when I woke up and Lemon was having an orgasm talking about Biden's amazing night. I think we in this forum, because we are so connected online, tend to assume reddit or twitter and other social media somehow represent the general voter. The truth is TV is still the big boy in influencing people and Bernie was crushed there.
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Revan said:
Trump won largely cause of Facebook and Twitter. TV is still important, but a good campaign in social media is as important.
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Is there any data to support that? Because I think the constant coverage he got on all channels because he was the funny/clown/outrageous candidate ultimately got him the win.
 
This Bloomberg adventure surely has to be worst waste of money in the history of politics.
 
maniak said:
Is there any data to support that? Because I think the constant coverage he got on all channels because he was the funny/clown/outrageous candidate ultimately got him the win.
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Trump won because Obama did feck all with the majority he had. Anyone telling you otherwise is only resorting to lazy analysis.
 
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Florida Man said:
God forbid a working class person goes out to eat a nice meal once in a while.
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That remind me of a portuguese right-wing politician who once said "if the lower class is doing so bad, how come I see McDonalds full all the time?".
 
Biden leading by 3.5pp in Texas, with Bloomberg being just slightly over the threshold (15.1%), with 82% of the votes being counted.

If Bloomberg would have dropped out, the race would have been finished today. Ironically, he might be Bernie's last hope.
 
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