2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Biden will get ruined by Trump.

It's as obvious as anything. The debates are going to be an hilarious shit show.

If it weren't super important it would be entertaining
 
Sanders speech was ok I thought. At least he talks about the work of building his movement more than laying blame. And more work to do. Because, clearly he does now.

Warren should have dropped out after she destroyed Bloomberg. She would have went out on a personal high. Now not only does she have no chance. But shes getting embarrassed AND she is earning vehement hatred and blame for Bernie's results.
 
Has she just said it? Bit surprised by that.

Warren will fight on
Elizabeth Warren has yet to see a win tonight, but earlier in the evening, promised she would continue to fight.
Massachusetts, the state she represents in the US Senate, has yet to be decided, and Warren was speaking before those results came in.
"Cast a vote from your heart," she told voters.

From the BBC

EDIT - though having seen whats going on in Massachusetts, she may change her mind!
 
I must say I find Sanders supporters delusion rather staggering. I get it, you like the candidate. But seriously:

1) The idea only Sanders can beat Trump has no basis. If he can't even beat Biden amongst a further left leaning electorate in the primary, how on earth do you expect him to beat Trump?

2) The idea Sanders increases turnout looks demonstrably false - in places he's doing well, turnout hasn't increased, where turnout has increased its gone massively to Biden. If anything the opposite is true, it is Biden who is turning out voters.

3) He's been robbed by the DNC. He's just not. On the one hand he wants to other himself and paint the rest as corrupt establishment, on the other his supporters are upset when those people he's specifically distanced himself from endorse one of that group? Regardless of which if the only way he could win is through 5 moderates running he clearly isn't a strong candidate.

4) The idea Biden is unelectable. Again zero basis. He does if anything slightly better than Sanders in head to heads with Trump, not that they're much use this far out. He's turning out voters better than Sanders. His coalition of voters is broader. More importantly he turns out people who actually vote. I don't think he's a great candidate either, but he's clearly stirring something up in the turnout.


Honestly, I get it, Sanders has some cool policies. But the constant conspiracies if he's not handed the elections are bizarre. The US has never been a left leaning country, the evidence is it still isn't.


(2) is a fair point. Sanders is not driving turnout from the Did Not Votes in 2016 the way it was expected. He wins in the millenials group but if they are only turning out 13% he isn't going to win and he doesn't seem to drive turnout the way people thought. AOC could probably do better tbh.

(4) you are completely off. The basis is the 2016 election that the neoliberals thought Clinton had in the bag and Biden offers nothing Clinton didn't. He doesn't have as much baggage but he is far less articulate and less inspiring, will do much worse in debates than Clinton vs. Trump based on primary flops, Ukraine is a lot more damaging for nepotism than anything Clinton had recently and he doesn't have a fanatical cult like following on social media. Biden 2020 is too much like Kerry 2004. Prepare for Trump to win the popular vote this time though.
 
feck Biden to be honest. Can't take another run with a centrist to be beaten by gun toting Bible thumping cult groupies who will vote for the orange orangutan.. feck off
 
Mitch McConnell wrote a book called The Long Game. Democrats need to start playing it or we will never have the welfare state we deserve. What better time than now.
He's doing almost everything under the radar like senate confirmed district court judges that 99.9% of Americans have no idea about. Sanders is the exact opposite of that. I love his policies but if he managed to win I think it would result in a massive recalibration in 2 years.
 
It's not really though, fundamentally, what Bernie could achieve is not going to be any different to a Biden, a Buttigieg, even a Bloomberg. His healthcare would be at best what they are suggesting.
It's hard to tell if you think the changes are 'cool' or necessary. If you just think they would be good but we'll be okay without them, then the entire climate science community would like a word, if it's 'the necessary changes aren't possible' then that's understandable but not desperately relevant to the debate as to how best to try and achieve them.
Biden just promised cures for cancer and alzheimers in his speech.
He often does.
 
(2) is a fair point. Sanders is not driving turnout from the Did Not Votes in 2016 the way it was expected. He wins in the millenials group but if they are only turning out 13% he isn't going to win and he doesn't seem to drive turnout the way people thought. AOC could probably do better tbh.

(4) you are completely off. The basis is the 2016 election that the neoliberals thought Clinton had in the bag and Biden offers nothing Clinton didn't. He doesn't have as much baggage but he is far less articulate and less inspiring, will do much worse in debates than Clinton vs. Trump based on primary flops, Ukraine is a lot more damaging for nepotism than anything Clinton had recently and he doesn't have a fanatical cult like following on social media. Biden 2020 is too much like Kerry 2004. Prepare for Trump to win the popular vote this time though.

But if you believe 4 to be true, how is Sanders any better?

That requires you to think that Sanders can't beat Biden (or Clinton for that matter), but would fare better against Trump. Except if he's losing in the Democrat primaries, he's not even winning against a more left leaning argument who should be more sympathetic to him. The argument I see given is he'd somehow win by increasing turnout, except again there's no evidence he actually does this. If he's so inspiring why aren't people turning out for the primaries? Or if Ukraine or whatever manufactured problem they have against Biden, why on earth do you think they wouldn't do the same to Sanders?

What am I meant to be missing here? For what its worth I think Trump will win, its difficult to unseat an encumbent. But the idea Sanders is the superior guy even if he loses a second primary, I dunno, what exactly is the logic meant to be here?
 
And a hattrick of endorsements

Part of this is that he's a conventional Democrat, but there's also the factor that he's a more likable guy who builds relationships (political and personal) in ways that Bernie just doesn't. Even when it comes to talking about himself, Bernie doesn't do personal.

Biden just promised cures for cancer and alzheimers in his speech.

Cancer has been a huge thing for Biden for years, especially after his son Beau died. When he came to Duke University to talk about the Cancer Moonshot program that the university would be a part of, he met with a young boy suffering from cancer talking to him about cancer research, showing him around AF2, and just spending about an hour with him. I couldn't find any news articles about it, but I know the local official who picked him up and drove him to meet with Biden.
 
What am I meant to be missing here? For what its worth I think Trump will win, its difficult to unseat an encumbent. But the idea Sanders is the superior guy even if he loses a second primary, I dunno, what exactly is the logic meant to be here?

Literally no one is making that argument. I'll be the first to admit I thought Sanders would do better at bringing in turnout from millenials and Did Not Vote in 2016. Obviously if Sanders is not turning those out, he won't beat Biden or Trump. Whereas Biden simply offers a repeat of 2016 or maybe a mix of 2016 + 2004.
 
It's hard to tell if you think the changes are 'cool' or necessary. If you just think they would be good but we'll be okay without them, then the entire climate science community would like a word, if it's 'the necessary changes aren't possible' then that's understandable but not desperately relevant to the debate as to how best to try and achieve them.
He often does.

Have you ever actually read Bernie Sanders climate change plan? It's laughable. It's clearly been made up in a few days so he could claim to his supporters he'll spend more on the green new deal than anyone else. The actual substance of it is poor. No nuclear power? Barely a mention of carbon taxes? No sequestian? It's not a serious plan, a bunch of the policies in it have zero to do with the climate and would be riders that would crash any green new deal. Never mind the cost. Why are all his policies meant to be as expensive as possible? Seriously, his plans have holes of trillions. And he never goes into further specifics.

The other candidates support carbon zero by 2050. I'm skeptical anyone would that done given how partisan the US is, but I have far more faith the other candidates have an element of pragmatism that Sanders plan clearly lacks.
 
I think you need to get your head out the sand.

There is literally no evidence Biden is unelectable, that Sanders is better than him. Its frankly bizarre.
Firstly you said there's no basis that Sanders can beat Trump and then proceed to post evidence that Sander could beat Trump. Secondly Biden is senile, the man is literally losing his mind.

You like a candidate, yeah great. But at a certain point you know, pretending the Moon is made of cheese ain't healthy.
My reply to you only a few hours ago
Mostly likely but I put this down to a lack of left political education. Personally I think there are massive ideological failures within this Sanders campaign/new left movement. But thats another very boring and long post.



Honestly reading posts can be a really useful thing to do on here.
 
Watch all the "Hunter Biden" "scandals" start suddenly becoming important again over on Fox news and right wing media. It had gotten quiet after impeachment. Suddenly it will need to be investigated again by GOP senators
 
Surely she can't justify it after that? She may end up damaging her chances for the next round. Let Sanders and Biden go head to head fair and square.
I hope so, I think this entire process has been bogged down, confused and mired by way too many candidates, the quicker we're down to Biden vs Sanders the better, but unfortunately I can't see Bloomberg giving up yet
 
Have you ever actually read Bernie Sanders climate change plan? It's laughable. It's clearly been made up in a few days so he could claim to his supporters he'll spend more on the green new deal than anyone else. The actual substance of it is poor. No nuclear power? Barely a mention of carbon taxes? No sequestian? It's not a serious plan, a bunch of the policies in it have zero to do with the climate and would be riders that would crash any green new deal. Never mind the cost. Why are all his policies meant to be as expensive as possible? Seriously, his plans have holes of trillions. And he never goes into further specifics.

The other candidates support carbon zero by 2050. I'm skeptical anyone would that done given how partisan the US is, but I have far more faith the other candidates have an element of pragmatism that Sanders plan clearly lacks.
There is nothing pragmatic about defeatism.
 
Watch all the "Hunter Biden" "scandals" start suddenly becoming important again over on Fox news and right wing media. It had gotten quiet after impeachment. Suddenly it will need to be investigated again by GOP senators
Can't believe the baggage associated with most front runners and Trump. Really is amazing that this lot is the best we have.
 
What if the story of 2016 isn't that a centrist democrat can't beat a GOP populist, but rather that Hillary Clinton is just a really weak candidate? Sander's share of vote is deteriorating vs 2016 in states like Oklahoma and Minnesota. You can't discount that maybe she's just a particularly bad candidate, and a cookie cutter dem candidate a-la Kerry is hypothetically enough to beat a GOP populist.
 
What if the story of 2016 isn't that a centrist democrat can't beat a GOP populist, but rather that Hillary Clinton is just a really weak candidate? Sander's share of vote is deteriorating vs 2016 in states like Oklahoma and Minnesota. You can't discount that maybe she's just a particularly bad candidate, and a cookie cutter dem candidate a-la Kerry is hypothetically enough to beat a GOP populist.
Your problem there is Biden isn't Kerry.
 
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