2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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One thing I would like to see from Sanders himself tonight is to not just blame the Biden wins on "establishment" coming after him. There are MILLIONS of actual votes in these wins. Massive, massive blowouts in black vote which is backbone of the party vote. Biden was literally dead in the water until SC. He must take the blame for not making more inroads with the black vote like his supporters kept saying. Thats not anything being rigged against him.

That's him not being able to sell the benefit of his policies. I have been saying he allows this "socialist" label to be put on him and doesn't fight it strongly enough to define himself. AOC does that so much better than him defining a Democratic socialist and what that means.

He may still have a wonderful night at the end of the day but him not being able to crush Biden who was absolutely on life support 2 weeks ago pokes alot of holes in he is the only one that can beat trump theory.
 
Bed time for me. Fingers crossed for some good news to wake up to but I fear the worst.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Texas beginning to show up now for Bernie. Bloomberg has split more votes for Biden than Warren has done for Sanders
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Bloomberg seems to be keeping Sanders competitive in certain States. Had he not been there Biden would have been probably been out of reach for Bernie in those States
 
Insane how important South Carolina was in this whole process, considering how the state hasn’t been won by a democrat in a general election since Carter in 1976. DNC should keep an eye on who wins swing state primaries, but looks like Biden is gonna take it with all this momentum.
 
Hamnat said:
One thing I would like to see from Sanders himself tonight is to not just blame the Biden wins on "establishment" coming after him. There are MILLIONS of actual votes in these wins. Massive, massive blowouts in black vote which is backbone of the party vote. Biden was literally dead in the water until SC. He must take the blame for not making more inroads with the black vote like his supporters kept saying. Thats not anything being rigged against him.

That's him not being able to sell the benefit of his policies. I have been saying he allows this "socialist" label to be put on him and doesn't fight it strongly enough to define himself. AOC does that so much better than him defining a Democratic socialist and what that means.

He may still have a wonderful night at the end of the day but him not being able to crush Biden who was absolutely on life support 2 weeks ago pokes alot of holes in he is the only one that can beat trump theory.
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Whilst I hate these categories (the black vote, the Latino vote, the young vote, the MILF vote, the whatever vote) as it tends to put put people in buckets based on color rather than nuance - I would think that the Establishment, media, and Buttigieg/Klobuchar/Steyer dropping out has had an effect on the Biden surge. It's not Biden has come up with an amazing inspiring message, or philosophy or new idea that has made people rally to him. He just hasn't fecked as much on the debates (thank you mini Mike), he's had the Establishment viciously attacking Sanders (see Hillary et al), he's had the media stir up controversy and fear (see Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd and the inane Fidel Castro point), and he's had some lightweights in the party drop out and endorse him. Hence, a lot of momentum gone his way.

Make no mistake, this is not Biden doing - this is the paymaster/donor class pulling strings in a concerted way to influence the result.

Which will result in 4 more years of Donald J. Trump
 
Suedesi said:
Whilst I hate these categories (the black vote, the Latino vote, the young vote, the MILF vote, the whatever vote) as it tends to put put people in buckets based on color rather than nuance - I would think that the Establishment, media, and Buttigieg/Klobuchar/Steyer dropping out has had an effect on the Biden surge. It's not Biden has come up with an amazing inspiring message, or philosophy or new idea that has made people rally to him. He just hasn't fecked as much on the debates (thank you mini Mike), he's had the Establishment viciously attacking Sanders (see Hillary et al), he's had the media stir up controversy and fear (see Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd and the inane Fidel Castro point), and he's had some lightweights in the party drop out and endorse him. Hence, a lot of momentum gone his way.

Make no mistake, this is not Biden doing - this is the paymaster/donor class pulling strings in a concerted way to influence the result.

Which will result in 4 more years of Donald J. Trump
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Agreed. I don't agree with folks who say Trump is most scared of Biden. He has attacks already ready for him. He will stir up the Ukraine stuff for him ala emails for Hillary and Biden will find it hard to explain his son benefitting off his reputation to earn bucks there. Then Biden is the walking embodiment of establishment same way Hillary was.
 
Suedesi said:
Whilst I hate these categories (the black vote, the Latino vote, the young vote, the MILF vote, the whatever vote) as it tends to put put people in buckets based on color rather than nuance - I would think that the Establishment, media, and Buttigieg/Klobuchar/Steyer dropping out has had an effect on the Biden surge. It's not Biden has come up with an amazing inspiring message, or philosophy or new idea that has made people rally to him. He just hasn't fecked as much on the debates (thank you mini Mike), he's had the Establishment viciously attacking Sanders (see Hillary et al), he's had the media stir up controversy and fear (see Chris Matthews, Chuck Todd and the inane Fidel Castro point), and he's had some lightweights in the party drop out and endorse him. Hence, a lot of momentum gone his way.

Make no mistake, this is not Biden doing - this is the paymaster/donor class pulling strings in a concerted way to influence the result.

Which will result in 4 more years of Donald J. Trump
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That just doesn't fly in the face of the actual results. That sounds like trumpian excuses blaming the media. I mean Sanders has a message, he doesn't waffle from that message. Biden was on life support. Why can he not sell that message? It is exactly what people have been saying from the start. If you cant sell Medicare for All to these voters in the primary. It's telling you how it will go when you try to sell the proposals in the districts and states these voters send representatives to Congress for.

The south is going to be red in the general. But the Senate seats Sanders would need to be blue for any of his proposals to be enacted also come from some of those states. And all these exit polls are flat out telling you these voters are not buying into MFA. That's not all "media" and establishment". That isn't to say that he cant change people's minds. But, it is clearly not going to be easy and he clearly from actual exit polls still has to do the job of selling it.

Listening to the exit polls showing how many of these voters are not just wanting trump out that they are "ANGRY" about his policies. I am liking the turnout numbers in alot of these states they want trump OUT first, policy possibly second. People waiting in 3 hour long lines to vote in a Texas primary is good for enthusiasm and encouraging
 
Back during the Iowa caucus 2/3rds of voters said they’d vote to oust Trump rather than the 1/3rd of people voting for someone based on policy. We are seeing that tonight. Bernie’s policy expertise based on the expansion of the welfare state is what we need. However, the people are seemingly choosing a safe, traditional democratic pick at a time when we should be focusing on major reform.
 
Pexbo said:
Regardless of what the result is tonight, the good news is that its looking like record turn out from democrats which means that Democrats. As Trump isn’t facing primary competition in most places, Republicans have not had the same registration surge.
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Yep. That's good news if true
 
Hamnat said:
That just doesn't fly in the face of the actual results. That sounds like trumpian excuses blaming the media. I mean Sanders has a message, he doesn't waffle from that message. Biden was on life support. Why can he not sell that message? It is exactly what people have been saying from the start. If you cant sell Medicare for All to these voters in the primary. It's telling you how it will go when you try to sell the proposals in the districts and states these voters send representatives to Congress for.

The south is going to be red in the general. But the Senate seats Sanders would need to be blue for any of his proposals to be enacted also come from some of those states. And all these exit polls are flat out telling you these voters are not buying into MFA. That's not all "media" and establishment". That isn't to say that he cant change people's minds. But, it is clearly not going to be easy and he clearly from actual exit polls still has to do the job of selling it.

Listening to the exit polls showing how many of these voters are not just wanting trump out that they are "ANGRY" about his policies. I am liking the turnout numbers in alot of these states they want trump OUT first, policy possibly second. People waiting in 3 hour long lines to vote in a Texas primary is good for enthusiasm and encouraging
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You're looking too much into Biden's victory in the South (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tenn, Alabama, SC, NC) when they would most likely go to Donald Trump anyways.

As for the bolded part, of course it is media and establishment. American people are generally stupid and uninformed when it comes to politics, so it's easy to bully them by drumming scare tactics into their boomer skulls ("socialism is going to take your insurance away" seems to work for half the population, and "they're going to take your freedoms and guns away" works for the other half).

Anyways, Bernie is not faultless in all of this, he needed to soften up his image (but not substance) somewhat and maybe broaden his appeal. Still, imho he would have had the best chance vs. Trump. Don't think Biden stands a chance.
 
Just settling in for this. My understanding is things look bad for Sanders but we haven't had confirmation yet as to whether they are disappointing or terminal?
 
Hamnat said:
That just doesn't fly in the face of the actual results. That sounds like trumpian excuses blaming the media. I mean Sanders has a message, he doesn't waffle from that message. Biden was on life support. Why can he not sell that message? It is exactly what people have been saying from the start. If you cant sell Medicare for All to these voters in the primary. It's telling you how it will go when you try to sell the proposals in the districts and states these voters send representatives to Congress for.

The south is going to be red in the general. But the Senate seats Sanders would need to be blue for any of his proposals to be enacted also come from some of those states. And all these exit polls are flat out telling you these voters are not buying into MFA. That's not all "media" and establishment". That isn't to say that he cant change people's minds. But, it is clearly not going to be easy and he clearly from actual exit polls still has to do the job of selling it.

Listening to the exit polls showing how many of these voters are not just wanting trump out that they are "ANGRY" about his policies. I am liking the turnout numbers in alot of these states they want trump OUT first, policy possibly second. People waiting in 3 hour long lines to vote in a Texas primary is good for enthusiasm and encouraging
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The media played a big part in distorting the idea of M4A. And Democratic Super PACs were spending millions on ads that basically lied to Americans about it. The fact that a common phrase was “kicking people off their beloved plans” was even a thing was proof.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Just settling in for this. My understanding is things look bad for Sanders but we haven't had confirmation yet as to whether they are disappointing or terminal?
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Pretty much. And he could still outperform in Texas and California, which could make up for some of the Biden outperformance in smaller/southern states.
 
DiseaseOfTheAge said:
Just settling in for this. My understanding is things look bad for Sanders but we haven't had confirmation yet as to whether they are disappointing or terminal?
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Early to call but seems like Bernie will win Texas and California which are delegate-rich. However, Biden is winning many southern states that will probably go republican in the general election anyway.
 
Suedesi said:
You're looking too much into Biden's victory in the South (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tenn, Alabama, SC, NC) when they would most likely go to Donald Trump anyways.

As for the bolded part, of course it is media and establishment. American people are generally stupid and uninformed when it comes to politics, so it's easy to bully them by drumming scare tactics into their boomer skulls ("socialism is going to take your insurance away" seems to work for half the population, and "they're going to take your freedoms and guns away" works for the other half).

Anyways, Bernie is not faultless in all of this, he needed to soften up his image (but not substance) somewhat and maybe broaden his appeal. Still, imho he would have had the best chance vs. Trump. Don't think Biden stands a chance.
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Definitely. He could have run with more or less the same message while getting detached from the 'socialist' tag. And if he softened up the message a big, while keeping the majority of his framework, it would have helped him. The Cuba message in the last debate didn't help him and was totally avoidable (and yes, I agree with what he said).

He also should have stayed a Democrat instead of going back to independent after the last election.

All in all, it is a bit sad. While I still think that the majority of his policies were totally unimplementable, just talking about those things is important in itself, and in the long run, it could have been a catalyst to set the country in the right direction.
 
Suedesi said:
You're looking too much into Biden's victory in the South (Oklahoma, Arkansas, Tenn, Alabama, SC, NC) when they would most likely go to Donald Trump anyways.

As for the bolded part, of course it is media and establishment. American people are generally stupid and uninformed when it comes to politics, so it's easy to bully them by drumming scare tactics into their boomer skulls ("socialism is going to take your insurance away" seems to work for half the population, and "they're going to take your freedoms and guns away" works for the other half).

Anyways, Bernie is not faultless in all of this, he needed to soften up his image (but not substance) somewhat and maybe broaden his appeal. Still, imho he would have had the best chance vs. Trump. Don't think Biden stands a chance.
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Completely agree with the bold. But, expanding on that is him needing to take ownership of it. Blaming media is not taking ownership. Like I said. He allows the attacks and socialist labels. He doesn't fight it hard enough he just gets loud and angry. He allows himself to be defined. I want him to firmly establish I am not a socialist, this whole "he wants to turn us into Venezuela" is bullshit and ____is why. That's up to him and his campaign to do.

And again. He has to convince people of the benefits of his policies. He must sell it. If he comes out tonight and goes on an establishment rant it just isn't going to help anything. He needs to take ownership that he has work to do teaching people the value of his policies.
 
FéNaSeleção said:
Early to call but seems like Bernie will win Texas and California which are delegate-rich. However, Biden is winning many southern states that will probably go republican in the general election anyway.
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Yeh but Texas is going to Trump anyway and California is going to Amy candidate with (d) beside thier name. You can't just use one talking point for Biden and then not apply it to Bernie
 
Revan said:
Definitely. He could have run with more or less the same message while getting detached from the 'socialist' tag. And if he softened up the message a big, while keeping the majority of his framework, it would have helped him. The Cuba message in the last debate didn't help him and was totally avoidable (and yes, I agree with what he said).

He also should have stayed a Democrat instead of going back to independent after the last election.

All in all, it is a bit sad. While I still think that the majority of his policies were totally unimplementable, just talking about those things is important in itself, and in the long run, it could have been a catalyst to set the country in the right direction.
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I think he has had the effect of moving the Democratic party more towards his policies, even if he doesn't win the nomination this time either.
 
MTF said:
I think he has had the effect of moving the Democratic party more towards his policies, even if he doesn't win the nomination this time either.
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That is definitely true, which is a good thing on itself.

The 'revolution' will come, but it will be incremental, and it won't be with Bernie leading it.
 
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