2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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fishfingers15 said:
It's just so like the democratic party if they can't agree on a path after a full 4 years after 2016 with the unity tour between Perez and Ellison etc just to face 2020 with the Sanders wing blaming Clinton and the corporate wing and the establishment idiots blaming Trump,Russia and everyone else.
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From what I have seen on Twitter and Facebook is the Republicans are in complete unison against the Dems. They may disagree on certain issues but all those who disagree with Trump have said so and are either voting Dem, Indy, or not at all. The rest, like him or loath him are behind him on election day. They may be deluded about his achievements or his true goal and they may be brainwashed or in denial, but they are United against the Dems. The Dems are the clear enemy. I honest don't think I have seen hatred like it outside of Racism and Sexism. The pack mentality that could be seen so clearly during the Kavenaugh hearing is evident throughout the Republicans supporters posts, profiles, language and news channels.


The Dems are all over the fecking place. Bernie, and many of his supporters, to me, have got over it all and are just focusing on moving forward and not looking back. Hillary supporters on the other hand are continuously attacking or blaming the Bernie Bros, saying he's not even a Dem and should be nowhere near the party. I've seen literally hundreds say they won't vote for him if he's the Dem candidate as they all still blame him for Hillary losing.

Feck, I saw an entire 500 post thread the other day calling for Trump to be impeached and Hillary to be given the Presidency when Trump goes to jail. They just can't let it go or get over it and that could be their downfall and cost the Dems yet again in upcoming elections. It's insane. It's a clear divide and the Republicans must love it.
 
langster said:
From what I have seen on Twitter and Facebook is the Republicans are in complete unison against the Dems. They may disagree on certain issues but all those who disagree with Trump have said so and are either voting Dem, Indy, or not at all. The rest, like him or loath him are behind him on election day. They may be deluded about his achievements or his true goal and they may be brainwashed or in denial, but they are United against the Dems. The Dems are the clear enemy. I honest don't think I have seen hatred like it outside of Racism and Sexism. The pack mentality that could be seen so clearly during the Kavenaugh hearing is evident throughout the Republicans supporters posts, profiles, language and news channels.


The Dems are all over the fecking place. Bernie, and many of his supporters, to me, have got over it all and are just focusing on moving forward and not looking back. Hillary supporters on the other hand are continuously attacking or blaming the Bernie Bros, saying he's not even a Dem and should be nowhere near the party. I've seen literally hundreds say they won't vote for him if he's the Dem candidate as they all still blame him for Hillary losing.

Feck, I saw an entire 500 post thread the other day calling for Trump to be impeached and Hillary to be given the Presidency when Trump goes to jail. They just can't let it go or get over it and that could be their downfall and cost the Dems yet again in upcoming elections. It's insane. It's a clear divide and the Republicans must love it.
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I feel a lot of people active in Democrat politics were promised jobs with a 2nd Clinton admin from top cabinet positions to low level staffers and those people are vindictive political power climbers not principled citizens looking to serve the best interest of the people.
 
langster said:
From what I have seen on Twitter and Facebook is the Republicans are in complete unison against the Dems. They may disagree on certain issues but all those who disagree with Trump have said so and are either voting Dem, Indy, or not at all. The rest, like him or loath him are behind him on election day. They may be deluded about his achievements or his true goal and they may be brainwashed or in denial, but they are United against the Dems. The Dems are the clear enemy. I honest don't think I have seen hatred like it outside of Racism and Sexism. The pack mentality that could be seen so clearly during the Kavenaugh hearing is evident throughout the Republicans supporters posts, profiles, language and news channels.


The Dems are all over the fecking place. Bernie, and many of his supporters, to me, have got over it all and are just focusing on moving forward and not looking back. Hillary supporters on the other hand are continuously attacking or blaming the Bernie Bros, saying he's not even a Dem and should be nowhere near the party. I've seen literally hundreds say they won't vote for him if he's the Dem candidate as they all still blame him for Hillary losing.

Feck, I saw an entire 500 post thread the other day calling for Trump to be impeached and Hillary to be given the Presidency when Trump goes to jail. They just can't let it go or get over it and that could be their downfall and cost the Dems yet again in upcoming elections. It's insane. It's a clear divide and the Republicans must love it.
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oneniltothearsenal said:
I feel a lot of people active in Democrat politics were promised jobs with a 2nd Clinton admin from top cabinet positions to low level staffers and those people are vindictive political power climbers not principled citizens looking to serve the best interest of the people.
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I mean, are we still blaming Hilary Clinton for all that's wrong? Hilarious
 
fishfingers15 said:
I mean, are we still blaming Hilary Clinton for all that's wrong? Hilarious
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No, not at all. But that's kind of my point. 2016 was a loss, a huge unexpected loss, lessons should be learned, a message should be agreed on and delivered and people within the Democrat party should stop blaming everyone else or looking for excuses and learn from it. Unite together on what they agree on and not what they disagree on and get the seats in the House and Senate, get the White House back and then implement the policies they want and the majority of the people want.

This shit is all bigger than who won or lost or why, the Republicans keep beating the Dems at every fecking step. Just look at Kavanagh. Not only are they beating the Dems they are making them look stupid, weak and ineffective at the same time and the Dems righteous indignation just makes them look like whiny little bitches and just further empowers and unites the right against them. It's a fecking lose, lose every time when they actually should be winning. It's batshit insane. They just don't seem to be learning at all.
 
fishfingers15 said:
I mean, are we still blaming Hilary Clinton for all that's wrong? Hilarious
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The article I posted today in long forms from NY Times Book Review really emphasizes this point. The progressive coalition really needs to stop infighting and focus on the really important issues that matter at this critical window. A failure to really present an attractive alternate vision to this emergent far-right populism is just going to get Trump his 2nd term where things can really get dangerous.

If Democrats want to have a chance at stopping Trump from a 2nd term they have to really understand what issues matter to people now and why. Two very important demographics for example that Clinton lost a lot of support from Obama's coalition are veteran and union households. Right now the weakness to the Trump economic boost is that many working class/middle class middle class people are feeling a lot of economic anxiety over health care costs and potential negatives. Universal health care as the primary focus with supporting ideas can appeal to these working/middle class demographic groups that Clinton lost. Its really the only solution to economic/health anxiety and people like Biden really need to abandon Perez's rubbish and embrace it if he really wants to run in 2020.

I think Beto really shows how much public support there can be for a candidate that is actually focused on working for the people. A few parts of the Dem power establishment need to let go of trying to have it both ways by placating the pharmaceuticals and privatized HMO donor systems.
 
it would be easier to move on from hillary if she was constantly in the news being a weight around the party.



its hard to make kavanaugh have the resonance it should when these people are 2 of the 3 most prominent names in the party
 
Eboue said:
it would be easier to move on from hillary if she was constantly in the news being a weight around the party.





its hard to make kavanaugh have the resonance it should when these people are 2 of the 3 most prominent names in the party
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That's a fair point tbh. Obama has taken so much shit from Trump, so has Pelosi, Harris and Schumer and yet I can barely recall them ever resorting to retort to anything they have been called or accused of, and you wouldn't blame them if they did tbh. Hillary has replied to Trump in person and on Twitter often, including just last week when she responded by pointing out he asked Russia to hack her emails at a rally after he last week accused her of collusion with the Russians.

She just can't help herself and has no awareness that she's actually hurting her party and its cause with her actions.
 
langster said:
From what I have seen on Twitter and Facebook is the Republicans are in complete unison against the Dems. They may disagree on certain issues but all those who disagree with Trump have said so and are either voting Dem, Indy, or not at all. The rest, like him or loath him are behind him on election day. They may be deluded about his achievements or his true goal and they may be brainwashed or in denial, but they are United against the Dems. The Dems are the clear enemy. I honest don't think I have seen hatred like it outside of Racism and Sexism. The pack mentality that could be seen so clearly during the Kavenaugh hearing is evident throughout the Republicans supporters posts, profiles, language and news channels.


The Dems are all over the fecking place. Bernie, and many of his supporters, to me, have got over it all and are just focusing on moving forward and not looking back. Hillary supporters on the other hand are continuously attacking or blaming the Bernie Bros, saying he's not even a Dem and should be nowhere near the party. I've seen literally hundreds say they won't vote for him if he's the Dem candidate as they all still blame him for Hillary losing.

Feck, I saw an entire 500 post thread the other day calling for Trump to be impeached and Hillary to be given the Presidency when Trump goes to jail. They just can't let it go or get over it and that could be their downfall and cost the Dems yet again in upcoming elections. It's insane. It's a clear divide and the Republicans must love it.
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Obama will appeal to the so called Hillary voters. I seriously doubt there are so many committed to her after what has been revealed about what she did.
 
langster said:
That's a fair point tbh. Obama has taken so much shit from Trump, so has Pelosi, Harris and Schumer and yet I can barely recall them ever resorting to retort to anything they have been called or accused of, and you wouldn't blame them if they did tbh. Hillary has replied to Trump in person and on Twitter often, including just last week when she responded by pointing out he asked Russia to hack her emails at a rally after he last week accused her of collusion with the Russians.

She just can't help herself and has no awareness that she's actually hurting her party and its cause with her actions.
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She cares nothing about anyone other than her own entitlement.
 
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This is weird (the age stuff). Still 2nd concerning poll in recent times (even as overall favourability remains great). Weird and worrying for the primary.
 
John Kerry has no business being anywhere near the 2020 primary.
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
John Kerry has no business being anywhere near the 2020 primary.
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To be fair, neither does Bernie or Biden and I think Bernie is one of the greatest politicians I have ever heard in my lifetime. I can't recall agreeing with someone so often, although Corbyn is close. But the USA needs to move away from electing old white guys ffs!

It's like some strange fetish.
 
Red Dreams said:
Bernie fought for civil rights and was arrested and he marched with Dr. King.

Throughout his life he has fought for ordinary Americans.

If he runs, he has my vote. Thats it.

Not arsed about age.
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I get that and I would vote for him 100%, I just think there are far too many old white guys in power in the USA. Some young blood needs to step up and freshen things up a little. Most of the names touted for the Presidency are old white guys.
 
langster said:
I get that and I would vote for him 100%, I just think there are far too many old white guys in power in the USA. Some young blood needs to step up and freshen things up a little. Most of the names touted for the Presidency are old white guys.
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The trouble with Bernie is people seem to be getting a bit carried away with the cult of personality and not focusing enough on the policies, which don't require Bernie to move them forward. It could be Warren, it could be anyone else who supports that platform. And ideally, it would be better to get some younger blood into the election process so that a majority of the electorate can culturally relate to the President as being of a generation close to theirs.
 
langster said:
I get that and I would vote for him 100%, I just think there are far too many old white guys in power in the USA. Some young blood needs to step up and freshen things up a little. Most of the names touted for the Presidency are old white guys.
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We must forget optics and focus on the substance.
The DNC nominated a young black guy and it worked.
They only failed because a bitter entitled person (Its her turn) who would stop at nothing And who had nothing to offer was appointed.

Bernie has the credentials. and importantly he is trusted. Just having another person who parroted policies that he or she has not worked on will not be a better candidate other than if he /she is younger.

its Trust.

Listening to him he has lost nothing of his urgency and need to serve.

If he felt he was not healthy enough, he would not run.
 
Raoul said:
The trouble with Bernie is people seem to be getting a bit carried away with the cult of personality and not focusing enough on the policies, which don't require Bernie to move them forward. It could be Warren, it could be anyone else who supports that platform. And ideally, it would be better to get some younger blood into the election process so that a majority of the electorate can culturally relate to the President as being of a generation close to theirs.
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Yup, I agree. According to many articles, polls, research studies and observations (although limited I agree) I have made, it seems the USA is definitely massively polarised more than it ever has been. I put the majority of that down to Trump and his divisive rhetoric and also down to the same effect we saw here in the UK over Brexit, and that is fear.

The older generations, religious folk and the more uneducated, accepting and less progressive are all shit scared as they are witnessing the total change of their country. What they knew has gone and it's been replaced with diversity, acceptance of other cultures, sexuallities, the rise of strong powerful women etc. This goes against everything they once knew and they don't know how to take it, many don't want to and many want to fight against it. I myself have fought with my parents over these these issues, it's a worldwide problem, not just the UK or USA.

Trump feeds off going back to times past. That's what MAGA is all about really, he can dress it up all he likes but we all know what he means, and even if we didn't people would just twist it to fit their racist, homophobic or sexist agendas.

However, there are millions of people who have evolved and accepted and welcomed the change. They want equality and love diversity and I would say the majority of youngsters not only know no different, but they fight for it too. Couple that with the rich poor divide widening and many seeing the elite as the problem and you can see why socialism is becoming so popular in the USA.

This is why I think as you righty said, a younger President would be welcomed and more helpful. Especially so younger generations can relate more instead of feeling alienated. Whatever, the next President HAS to be a Democrat for the sake of the USA and I think for the world too. I also don't think many could take another 6 years of Trump. I shudder at the thought of 2 let alone 6 ffs.
 
Doesn't look like the Sanders lot have moved on and looking forward if the last few posts are indication. But then again, some of us are waiting for that pivot.

I think Dems can't afford a long and messy primary. I say give it to Sanders or whomever has his backing. It's only right after the mess of 2016. I had little time for any protest voters in 2016 and will have even less of establishment idiots have any agenda and get Trump elected again.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Doesn't look like the Sanders lot have moved on and looking forward if the last few posts are indication. But then again, some of us are waiting for that pivot.

I think Dems can't afford a long and messy primary. I say give it to Sanders or whomever has his backing. It's only right after the mess of 2016. I had little time for any protest voters in 2016 and will have even less of establishment idiots have any agenda and get Trump elected again.
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i dont think the sanders wing has the capability to move on unilaterally. the clinton/obama wing controlled the party and oversaw historic losses since 2009. they control all of the key positions in the party. november 2016 was a stunning rebuke of everything they stood for and yet they still hold the power. its up to them to come to us. to reach out to us. to bend the knee (to borrow a line)
 
Eboue said:
i dont think the sanders wing has the capability to move on unilaterally. the clinton/obama wing controlled the party and oversaw historic losses since 2009. they control all of the key positions in the party. november 2016 was a stunning rebuke of everything they stood for and yet they still hold the power. its up to them to come to us. to reach out to us. to bend the knee (to borrow a line)
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They would rather lose.
 
@langster I wholeheartedly agree with everything you typed there.

It fuels the hope that Trump/Brexit/that sort of thinking is the last kick out of a generation about to rapidly die off and it actually makes me hopeful for the future.

The only problem is the unchecked, possibly irreparable damage being done in the present whilst the dying arseholes can still do what they want.

Just gotfa hope there’s something left of the planet and of mankind when fully progressive, accepting, modern, tolerant behaviour is in power. Well aware that it appears intolerant to the old ways so claiming tolerance is a bit much but the old ways do have to die.
 
fishfingers15 said:
Doesn't look like the Sanders lot have moved on and looking forward if the last few posts are indication. But then again, some of us are waiting for that pivot.

I think Dems can't afford a long and messy primary. I say give it to Sanders or whomever has his backing. It's only right after the mess of 2016. I had little time for any protest voters in 2016 and will have even less of establishment idiots have any agenda and get Trump elected again.
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I don't think history bears out the hypothesis that long and messy primaries are bad for the general election. Trump emerged from a messier primary. Reagan defeated Carter in 1980 after a messier Republican primary that honed the Republican message and even led to a Republican spoiler candidate in independent John B. Anderson. The Democrats in 1960 went down to a Convention battle for delegates after a long primary with numerous characters and emerged with Kennedy who was the last Democrat President with a vision that was achieved. Sometimes a long, unknown primary is good because it gives a chance to stress test messages and is better at revealing the stronger candidate than just pre-selecting.
 
matherto said:
@langster I wholeheartedly agree with everything you typed there.

It fuels the hope that Trump/Brexit/that sort of thinking is the last kick out of a generation about to rapidly die off and it actually makes me hopeful for the future.

The only problem is the unchecked, possibly irreparable damage being done in the present whilst the dying arseholes can still do what they want.

Just gotfa hope there’s something left of the planet and of mankind when fully progressive, accepting, modern, tolerant behaviour is in power. Well aware that it appears intolerant to the old ways so claiming tolerance is a bit much but the old ways do have to die.
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Don't forget we are the angry mob now..It's even being thrown at Corbyn supporters and anyone who doesn't want to go along with Brexit.

We want peace, equality, acceptance, free healthcare and education and yet we are the ones who are being made out to be the intolerant ones.

It's only going to get much worse.
 
Raoul said:
The trouble with Bernie is people seem to be getting a bit carried away with the cult of personality and not focusing enough on the policies, which don't require Bernie to move them forward. It could be Warren, it could be anyone else who supports that platform. And ideally, it would be better to get some younger blood into the election process so that a majority of the electorate can culturally relate to the President as being of a generation close to theirs.
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"There is a difference between knowing the path and Walking the Path" ;)
 
oneniltothearsenal said:
I think Beto really shows how much public support there can be for a candidate that is actually focused on working for the people. A few parts of the Dem power establishment need to let go of trying to have it both ways by placating the pharmaceuticals and privatized HMO donor systems.
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The "democratic Party" is mostly a machine to extract donations. Unfortunately.
 
Raoul said:
The trouble with Bernie is people seem to be getting a bit carried away with the cult of personality and not focusing enough on the policies, which don't require Bernie to move them forward. It could be Warren, it could be anyone else who supports that platform. And ideally, it would be better to get some younger blood into the election process so that a majority of the electorate can culturally relate to the President as being of a generation close to theirs.
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Hmm I wouldn’t necessarily agree with that.

If Bernie does indeed boast a cult zealous following then I’d say that’s thanks largely to his honing in of progressive policies which are largely seen as popular by a significant portion of the electorate. He doesn’t retreat to vacuous soundbites (‘Drain the swamp’, ‘MAGA’ etc) but instead doubles down on policy tenets such as universal healthcare, subsidised college education and progressive taxation. That’s largely been his appeal IMO.

I’d concede that his outsider status does him favours when contrasted to the currently out of fashion ‘establishment’ reactionaries of both the GOPs and Dems, but besides that his policies ARE his appeal IMO.
 
Eboue said:
it would be easier to move on from hillary if she was constantly in the news being a weight around the party.



its hard to make kavanaugh have the resonance it should when these people are 2 of the 3 most prominent names in the party
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She's not going to go away the same reason someone like Huckabee won't go away for Republicans, Democrats need to worry more about moving Pelosi on because she matters on ballot papers and in congress.
 
Red Dreams said:
We must forget optics and focus on the substance.
The DNC nominated a young black guy and it worked.
They only failed because a bitter entitled person (Its her turn) who would stop at nothing And who had nothing to offer was appointed.

Bernie has the credentials. and importantly he is trusted. Just having another person who parroted policies that he or she has not worked on will not be a better candidate other than if he /she is younger.

its Trust.

Listening to him he has lost nothing of his urgency and need to serve.

If he felt he was not healthy enough, he would not run.
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That's not true. Hilary was always more qualified than Bernie as a politician. She had a lot to offer and we would have seen a less volatile world right now than having that orange goon at the helm.

Bernie was very weak with finances and economy. He had good social ideas but nothing was there to suggest it could be implemented. Hillary was a victim of a smear campaign and people hated her personality.
 
Eboue said:
i dont think the sanders wing has the capability to move on unilaterally. the clinton/obama wing controlled the party and oversaw historic losses since 2009. they control all of the key positions in the party. november 2016 was a stunning rebuke of everything they stood for and yet they still hold the power. its up to them to come to us. to reach out to us. to bend the knee (to borrow a line)
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I think that's fair. Outreach has to happen from whomever had the control and people who were made to feel like outcasts should be made to feel welcome.

You've known my stance, I've been a pragmatic voter all my life in India where I had to choose between a fox and a wolf while living my life as a rooster. Even pragmatically, it makes sense for Sanders wing for the party to be given the lead. At least, if it doesn't work out, we can move on that the country is fecked anyway.
 
niMic said:
Okay, but where's the long-form DNA test? This proves nothing.

You'll all be surprised when you hear what my guy tells me.
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Its posted on her website - https://mk0elizabethwarh5ore.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Bustamante_Report_2018.pdf

Reviewed by a professor of genetics at Stanford.

Executive Summary. We find strong evidence that a DNA sample of primarily European descent also contains Native American ancestry from an ancestor in the sample’s pedigree 6-10 generations ago. We find little or no evidence of African ancestry in this sample.
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The only cult we have is the cult of money politics.
The choice is simple. You choose to serve corporations or people.
People Trust Bernie...rather than some Johnny come lately who spouts policies that seem popular.

If the Democratic party does not see the wisdom of listening to what people need, then we will have a Trump second term.

Biden....he has enough of his own baggage.
 
Silva said:
good move, it's like when obama put the kenyan muslim thing to rest by releasing his birth certificate because the other side is arguing in good faith and aren't just massive racists
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Yep...agreed. It was surely her logic in releasing it this early.
 
Biden would not be the way to go.

Personally, I would want someone who goes toe to toes with the trumpists.

We have enough Ds who tried to be nice and came out like no backbone morons when the other side hate them regardless and lose the game in long term.
 
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