2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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RD has just answered perfectly. Yes the NHS has problems and yes it always has, but the last few years the NHS has been systematically and intentionally dismantled and defunded by the Tories because they, along with wanker Farage want it to fail so they can introduce an American style insurance based system so they can profit from it.

No illusions, that is 100% what they want and why they want it. The rich don't give a fecking shit about anyone else and they only exist for them to make a profit from.

The rich wont give a fecking shit until, they are being lynched by people who have had enough.
 
illusion of upfront. He's not hiding anything is his appeal.
Surely this is a complete oxymoron? He has lied more than any other president in history. He is so far from upfront that it is ridiculous. He is constantly hiding behind lies and attempts at misdirection. I don't follow your line of thinking at all.
 
I thought @shamans insisting years after that Moyes should have gotten more time was as bad as it can be, turned out you can always go lower.

Besides, Sanders DID say that taxes would go up, multiple times, so...
 
Surely this is a complete oxymoron? He has lied more than any other president in history. He is so far from upfront that it is ridiculous. He is constantly hiding behind lies and attempts at misdirection. I don't follow your line of thinking at all.

The way he talks, you would think he is upfront about issues. If he gets stuck on an issue he doesn't worry about not giving the wrong answer. He will say something factually incorrect with 100% confidence. This is what I mean by the illusion of being upfront. Your average person will think he is being upfront.
 
The way he talks, you would think he is upfront about issues. If he gets stuck on an issue he doesn't worry about not giving the wrong answer. He will say something factually incorrect with 100% confidence. This is what I mean by the illusion of being upfront. Your average person will think he is being upfront.
Right, I get what you are angling towards now. Still don't think he could be called upfront in anyway. A huge shame that people can be roped in by his bullshit.
 
I thought @shamans insisting years after that Moyes should have gotten more time was as bad as it can be, turned out you can always go lower.

Besides, Sanders DID say that taxes would go up, multiple times, so...

I was in and out of the debate. I just remember him answering to a healthcare question that "we will tax Billionaires and big companies" and it put me off.
 
Right, I get what you are angling towards now. Still don't think he could be called upfront in anyway. A huge shame that people can be roped in by his bullshit.

Of course he isn't but the idea that he is is what attracts people. Then there are people that can relate to the way he talks. Just frustrated and sick of the current situation. People who don't care about facts or figures but just sweeping statements.
 
That's not my point. It's the wrong answer. Something that has to be done but doesn't address that question.
You’ve admitted to not even watching the whole debate, and even moreso, apparently quit listening halfway through what Bernie was saying... so how can you even attempt to comment on what was and was not said in an answer?
 
As a German I can second this. It feels utterly surreal to see something that's so natural in Europe and that's so very important for every human attacked and dismissed so easily in the US. Wasn't Obama even compared to Hitler for his reform attempts?

I hanged with an american girl once and when I told her my mom had had cancer and she didn't pay a cent for the treatment and two surgeries her jaw dropped to the floor. It was such an alien concept to her, that anyone can get treated for free. It's amazing how americans don't realize how ridiculous their system is.
 
I love that game. Yugoslavia is a tough one to play as.

Yeah I was lucky the germans didn't declare war on me after I kept declining their alliance offers. Italy did though but I managed to hold them until the soviets steam rolled the entire continent. I even managed to annex a few parts of Hungary and Romania. Now I'm kinda stuck.
 
It's as good as a magic wand when Bernie says all student debt will be finished and college will be free. That simply cannot and will not happen just like that. It's borderline childish and just a way of buying in the emotional voter
It's like saying you can't waive a magic wand and give a trillion dollar tax break to the wealthiest people.
 
That is too complex a thought for him.
It's a pity. The US is a limitless financier when it comes to the defense industry and Wall Street. God forbid we give the working and middle classes money or debt clearance, which would inevitably stimulate the economy.
 
It's a pity. The US is a limitless financier when it comes to the defense industry and Wall Street. God forbid we give the working and middle classes money or debt clearance, which would inevitably stimulate the economy.

these braindead libertarians have yet to work out the difference between investments and expenses.

They still support voodoo economics. "Tax cuts generate jobs" :lol:
 
these braindead libertarians have yet to work out the difference between investments and expenses.

They still support voodoo economics. "Tax cuts generate jobs" :lol:
It does generate jobs. Like yacht building jobs so billionaires can buy their second one.
 
Bernie and Liz need to stop trying to educate these fools and when asked about increased taxes for UHC they should just say...

'Yes of course your taxes will go up, you fecking morons! That's the whole point, everyone contributes and pays for everyone else. However, as your taxes go up, you will not have to bankrupt yourselves and pay stupid and needless insurance premiums anymore. Also, if you have healthcare included in your work contract, then your employer should cancel that and pay you more'

Simple.

Stop pandering to everyone and tell it straight.
Yep this is the correct answer.

Also Bernie and Warren didn't point out that medicare for all is better than healthcare included in work contracts because if you get fired/lose a job you still get to have healthcare.
 
Bernie and Liz need to stop trying to educate these fools and when asked about increased taxes for UHC they should just say...

'Yes of course your taxes will go up, you fecking morons! That's the whole point, everyone contributes and pays for everyone else. However, as your taxes go up, you will not have to bankrupt yourselves and pay stupid and needless insurance premiums anymore. Also, if you have healthcare included in your work contract, then your employer should cancel that and pay you more'

Simple.

Stop pandering to everyone and tell it straight.

The problem with that is this:

Yes of course your taxes will go up, you fecking morons! Stop pandering to everyone and tell it straight.

You cant just say stuff that can be edited, even in video form. So you have to avoid saying the basic thing. Like that Mathews cnut. Hes not dumb, he knows what warren is saying. But he wants her to say the words, that taxes will go up so that he can sound bite her without the context. Its annoying as feck as you rightly point out.
 
Yep this is the correct answer.

Also Bernie and Warren didn't point out that medicare for all is better than healthcare included in work contracts because if you get fired/lose a job you still get to have healthcare.
It may not have been conveyed last night but I know for sure Bernie has mentioned that many times.
 
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/cnn-...nservative-framing_n_5d40f624e4b0d24cde077fad

CNN Debate Moderators Used Conservative Framing To Grill Democrats
Questions on everything from health care to immigration put liberal ideas on the defensive.


Still think The 'liberal Media' are against Trump and the Republicans?

Yes of course they are. There is no "mainstream" pro-Trump news source apart from Fox compared to the myriad anti-Trump ones. He relies on a base that reads alternative media and assorted bullshit sources
 
Yes of course they are. There is no "mainstream" pro-Trump news source apart from Fox compared to the myriad anti-Trump ones. He relies on a base that reads alternative media and assorted bullshit sources
Yeah they can still be anti-Trump and also be pro corporate elite.
 
Horrible idea. That would be falling for the trap of the far right by giving Rush and Hannity the exact sound bite they are fishing for.

They answered the way they ahould answer by refusing to engage in the right wing frame that would give the far right media trolls sound bite mileage for the next 10 years.

In short, the best thing to do is never give the right wing the sound bite they troll for which allows them to remove all context when they replay your words taken out of context.

The worst are scum like Delaney trying to repeat Rush Hannity tLking points.

Its important to understand how framing works before falling right into the right wing trap


Disagree with with parts of this but really interesting none the less.
 
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