2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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shamans said:
@Florida Man , I am not sure what you're getting at regarding my magic wand comment. Bernies idea of magically making the American university system free is not that simple.
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A trillion dollar tax cut was implemented even though we're running a deficit. Wall Street was bailed out with hundreds of billions of dollars out of thin air after they screwed up the economy. Military defense budget is stupid huge. Like incredibly stupid huge. Yet, here we are funding them. Yet, healthcare is some odd concept that's too expensive.

However, you have demonstrated and admitted to a lack of ability to pay attention and it is disingenuous to characterize Bernie's plan as some magic wand wave. He literally has a plan. But no, you don't listen. You're like the equivalent of someone who reads the headline and goes straight to the comments with all of your opinions and you defend them as if they're set in stone.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/

(disclaimer: it would require reading thoroughly)
 
RedPed said:
Thanks for the heads up. Bit of an eye opener that. Yeah our NHS ain't perfect if you need specific operations and stuff but you can go private and avoid the wait but at point of access it's pretty great. Kids are pretty much covered for most things. Our big issue is paying the health workers what they're actually worth. Sounds like the insurance companies are the key players in the US system?
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They are the primary reason why it's so rigged and expensive. Prices are purposely inflated so insurance companies can "negotiate" it down to look like a good deal.
 
It’s a 3 legged stool: pharma, insurance and doctors. All do quite well out of the current system.
Tbf, I’ve not read up on the AMA’s thoughts on UHC. Would appreciate some insight there.
 
Florida Man said:
A trillion dollar tax cut was implemented even though we're running a deficit. Wall Street was bailed out with hundreds of billions of dollars out of thin air after they screwed up the economy. Military defense budget is stupid huge. Like incredibly stupid huge. Yet, here we are funding them. Yet, healthcare is some odd concept that's too expensive.

However, you have demonstrated and admitted to a lack of ability to pay attention and it is disingenuous to characterize Bernie's plan as some magic wand wave. He literally has a plan. But no, you don't listen. You're like the equivalent of someone who reads the headline and goes straight to the comments with all of your opinions and you defend them as if they're set in stone.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/

(disclaimer: it would require reading thoroughly)
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Will you bother to understand why Wallstreet was bailed out? And I was talking about free college not healthcare. Please don't pull off a bernie/waren by mentioning buzzwords to "prove" a point.

You're the one who is not listening to me because I never said Bernie doesn't have a plan. My initial post here is that he needs to convey his plan in a better way. The current narrative is false but they keep saying it that way because it panders to the audience.
 
Red Dreams said:
Let me help you.

You don't understand economics whatsoever.
But you come on here spouting Right Wing talking points. You don't back up what you say.

btw I'm curious. Why does a non-white person like you support a racist?

What inner scorn do you have for yourself?
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You're looking really stupid right now saying I'm spouting right wing talking points. Is that what you tell anyone who disagrees with any aspect of Bernie or Waren?

If you're calling Biden a racist, I'm not surprised. You called him a corporate stooge or whatever. Again, if you think calling someone "you're crap. you don't know shit" is the way to go about making your point then you have learned nothing from 2016. You deserve another Trump tenure.

as for "you don't understand economics" I'm not going to bother asking your credentials. No secure person talks like that.
 
shamans said:
Yeah. Everything should be free. Simple thoughts.



I didn't watch the whole debate. I saw how Bernie and Warren answered those questions. It was pandering BS talking about taxing billionaires and big companies. I get that they are politicians and you have to play some of those cards to get into office but it didn't sit well with me and god bless anyone who genuinely believes taxing Billionaires is the answer to funding all these programs.


@Florida Man , I am not sure what you're getting at regarding my magic wand comment. Bernies idea of magically making the American university system free is not that simple.
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They are frequently asked about how they would pay for their policies, and taxing the rich is usually some part of their answer. For instance, Warren's wealth tax would raise something like $2.5 trillion over a decade and would only affect 75,000 households. What's not to like about that ?
 
shamans said:
Will you bother to understand why Wallstreet was bailed out? And I was talking about free college not healthcare. Please don't pull off a bernie/waren by mentioning buzzwords to "prove" a point.

You're the one who is not listening to me because I never said Bernie doesn't have a plan. My initial post here is that he needs to convey his plan in a better way. The current narrative is false but they keep saying it that way because it panders to the audience.
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Healthcare was a mis-speak. I meant college tuition. Point still stands.

"Convey his plan in a better way" is a hell of a lot different than "waive magic wand and poof" that you were more adamant on earlier. You've also been proven to be wrong about what you're initially bringing up so it's nothing I need to explain further. Try avoiding hyperbole next time? Just a thought.
 
College and tuition costs have far exceeded the pace of inflation for over 20-years. This is principally driven by no economic incentives for universities to share in the
risk/cost of student debt and fueled by a Government backing of student loans. Currently students are financing
1) academic tenured game-players
2) real-estate developers
3) bureaucrats

The trick to make it work is immediate:
1) make universities liable for defaulted student loans
2) encourage the suing of universities in the event of misfitness of the degree and mismatch to promises made
3) encourage apprenticeship models
 
Raoul said:
They are frequently asked about how they would pay for their policies, and taxing the rich is usually some part of their answer. For instance, Warren's wealth tax would raise something like $2.5 trillion over a decade and would only affect 75,000 households. What's not to like about that ?
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Because in his own mind, she never said that so he spouts it as if she never said it.
 
Florida Man said:
Healthcare was a mis-speak. I meant college tuition. Point still stands.

"Convey his plan in a better way" is a hell of a lot different than "waive magic wand and poof" that you were more adamant on earlier. You've also been proven to be wrong about what you're initially bringing up so it's nothing I need to explain further. Try avoiding hyperbole next time? Just a thought.
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you mentioned healthcare and I responded to that. Healthcare = must explain it better. College tuition = magic wand (and more precisely I'm not convinced by his wall street tax which he should explain in more detail)
 
shamans said:
you mentioned healthcare and I responded to that. Healthcare = must explain it better. College tuition = magic wand (and more precisely I'm not convinced by his wall street tax which he should explain in more detail)
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It's not a magic wand. Nothing about it even close to a magic wand. It's a dumb analogy to be quite honest. This isn't Trump world where something becomes true just because you keep repeating yourself.
 
Boycott said:
In light of Ronald Reagan being exposed as a racist (who knew :rolleyes:), here's Joe Biden tearing down Reagan Administration support of Apartheid. Why has this video not gone viral?

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This actually paints Biden in a much better light. My guess is that they don't want to be associated with being anti-Reagan because he's trying to go for the "Reagan conservatives" that are on the fence for his election.

And yes, Reagan sucks. And he's a racist.
 
Florida Man said:
It's not a magic wand. Nothing about it even close to a magic wand. It's a dumb analogy to be quite honest. This isn't Trump world where something becomes true just because you keep repeating yourself.
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Applying a tax to wallstreet trades to make college tuition free is an intense idea. I have my doubts over it and need proper explanation of how it will work and raise enough money (48 billion + the money states have to provide as well). In my mind the numbers do not add up but it might and it would be better if Bernie explained it better than just shouting "I will make college free for all".

Then again you equated it to "bailing out wallstreet" and that's where you smash logic out of the park and bring on the buzzwords because it is yet another apples to oranges comparison.
 
shamans said:
you mentioned healthcare and I responded to that. Healthcare = must explain it better. College tuition = magic wand (and more precisely I'm not convinced by his wall street tax which he should explain in more detail)
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Why would college tuition = magic wand?

I don't get your train of thinking on this because most other countries are able to do it.
 
shamans said:
Applying a tax to wallstreet trades to make college tuition free is an intense idea. I have my doubts over it and need proper explanation of how it will work and raise enough money (48 billion + the money states have to provide as well). In my mind the numbers do not add up but it might and it would be better if Bernie explained it better than just shouting "I will make college free for all".

Then again you equated it to "bailing out wallstreet" and that's where you smash logic out of the park and bring on the buzzwords because it is yet another apples to oranges comparison.
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To your first point, how finely detailed do you expect a presidential candidate to lay out in his/her plans? Is there any candidate out there proposing any thing where there is a comprehensive set of explanations like you are requesting of Bernie?

To your second point, I did not equate student debt to bailing out wall street. You made a claim of magic wand waiving, which was dumb. I used wall street as an example of an intense idea, which from the outside looking in, would also seem like a magic wand waive according to your framing of it.
 
Billy Blaggs said:
Why would college tuition = magic wand?

I don't get your train of thinking on this because most other countries are able to do it.
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Most other countries have a different system and a total different economy anyway. There is a problem with the student debt and tuition fees that needs to be addressed. I'm interested in hearing a better plan than just saying it should be free. The subject is nuanced and you can't compare other countries with America.

EDIT: You can't just slice out the college portion of America and compare it that of other countries without considering Americas job market and economy post graduation.

Andrew Wang is someone that has a good take on it from what I've read so far.
 
shamans said:
Most other countries have a different system and a total different economy anyway. There is a problem with the student debt and tuition fees that needs to be addressed. I'm interested in hearing a better plan than just saying it should be free. The subject is nuanced and you can't compare other countries with America.

Andrew Wang is someone that has a good take on it from what I've read so far.
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I ain't having this disrespect :nono:
 
Florida Man said:
They are the primary reason why it's so rigged and expensive. Prices are purposely inflated so insurance companies can "negotiate" it down to look like a good deal.
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utdalltheway said:
It’s a 3 legged stool: pharma, insurance and doctors. All do quite well out of the current system.
Tbf, I’ve not read up on the AMA’s thoughts on UHC. Would appreciate some insight there.
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Surely it's time to wrestle control from these corporations to provide universal healthcare for everybody. Wouldn't a cap on charges/prescription costs help or perhaps a basic tax where everyone pays to fund healthcare? I'm trying to understand the American psyche as to why they are so averse to just having 'free' healthcare for all. I can understand their apprehension if they have been paying into insurance schemes all their life but from what I gather these schemes are not fully comprehensive in their cover anyway? I need to research this more. The prospect of facing bankruptcy after a trip to a doctor is honestly one of the most bizarre and disturbing things I've heard in a long time.

Be interesting to see how the candidates are going to address this tonight. I was still left a little confused from the participants yesterday.
 
RedPed said:
Surely it's time to wrestle control from these corporations to provide universal healthcare for everybody. Wouldn't a cap on charges/prescription costs help or perhaps a basic tax where everyone pays to fund healthcare? I'm trying to understand the American psyche as to why they are so averse to just having 'free' healthcare for all. I can understand their apprehension if they have been paying into insurance schemes all their life but from what I gather these schemes are not fully comprehensive in their cover anyway? I need to research this more. The prospect of facing bankruptcy after a trip to a doctor is honestly one of the most bizarre and disturbing things I've heard in a long time.

Be interesting to see how the candidates are going to address this tonight. I was still left a little confused from the participants yesterday.
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Oh man, this requires a book long answer addressing the history as well as the hypocrisy.
 
Did they really need 20 candidates?? Same of these guys realistically don't have a cat in hell's chance. People are only really here for Biden/Booker/Harris and possibly Gillibrand/Di Blasio?
 
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