2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Carolina Red said:
But he very well may be hurting his chances at winning anything outside the state of Vermont by calling himself something he’s not. It doesn’t make political sense... and he’s too far in the game now to change it.
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The word Socialism is not a dirty word as it may have been in the 60s.
Capitalism is the dirty word and it is because it has ensured the field of play is titled heavily towards those that have money.
 
Red Dreams said:
The word Socialism is not a dirty word as it may have been in the 60s.
Capitalism is the dirty word and it is because it has ensured the field of play is titled heavily towards those that have money.
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Again: progressive social democrat is going to get you a lot less pushback than democratic socialist, even in 2019-2020.

And it’s truthful, to boot.
 
Red Dreams said:
The word Socialism is not a dirty word as it may have been in the 60s.
Capitalism is the dirty word and it is because it has ensured the field of play is titled heavily towards those that have money.
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It's actually the other way around. Socialism is commonly vilified as representing something un-American (even in many Dem circles) and Capitalism is framed as needing to be fixed so that it works for more people. It's only in the extreme minority of people left of Sanders where things are viewed as you describe.
 
Carolina Red said:
And I think that is a poor political decision in the United States. You’re labeling yourself farther left than what you really are in a country with two main parties that are center-right and right wing.

Just call yourself a progressive social democrat and move on. He’s created a political stick for his opponents to beat his own back with.
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Possibly. I think the reasons why he picked this route -

1)Just getting people used to the word Democratic Socialism, as silly as that may sound.

2)To get of these reforms will require a form of socialist type politics and organising.

3)Bernie is a socialist but running on social democrat platform. A similar example being the Labour Party over here. John Mcdonnell
Shadow Chancellor is quite clearly a Marxist, he may say he's not but well he is. But Mcdonnell isn't offering to transform the UK into a marxist worker state. ''Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please.'' - Some German dude.


I'm not say this is the correct thing to do as looking at the polls at the moment it could very well be hurting him. And while it could get people use to the word socialism it doesn't really educated them on anything to do with socialism. I know she is great and all but AOC is someone for me who calls herself a socialist without any of idea of what socialism is.
 
Red Dreams said:
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-socialism-still-an-effective-political-bogeyman/

Interesting.
Generally it would seem younger people have no problem embracing Socialism.
If anything we are moving towards accepting Socialism.
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1... it’s still not a good political decision to mislabel yourself as one
an August 2018 survey from YouGov found that 41 percent of Democrats and 29 percent of independents said they would feel “enthusiastic” about or “comfortable” with “a candidate for president who described themselves as a socialist,” while 59 percent of Democrats and 71 percent of independents said they would have “some reservations” or would feel “very uncomfortable.”
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2... people are mislabeling the Nordic model
Democrats and Sanders, meanwhile, often cite Nordic countries with strong social safety nets as examples of socialism.
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Socialism isn’t growing in popularity. Social democracy is. Just call yourself one and you might get more votes.
 
Red Dreams said:
you seem to 'know' that the matter has been concluded??
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What?

I’m drawing attention to the fact that he’s been paying his own workers an hourly rate that’s under what he is campaigning for as the national minimum wage.

You said judge people off what they do, not what they say.

@Raoul posted this days ago, to no response.
Raoul said:
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Red Dreams said:
The key point I picked up was the Union is still discussing the entire package.
Nothing has been agreed. And there was frustration that this was leaked to the press for obvious reasons.
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The $36,000 was put in place. It’s the current pay package for field workers. What’s being negotiated is raising that pay because people complained that it is falling below $15 an hour when worker’s hours are taken into consideration and isn’t enough for them to live off of.

And of course they’re angry it got out. It isn’t a good look on a campaign to not pay an hourly wage to its own workers that they’re saying they want paid nationally.

“Judge by what they do, not what they say”
 
Carolina Red said:
The $36,000 was put in place. It’s the current pay package for field workers. What’s being negotiated is raising that pay because people complained that it is falling below $15 an hour when worker’s hours are taken into consideration and isn’t enough for them to live off of.

And of course they’re angry it got out. It isn’t a good look on a campaign to not pay an hourly wage to its own workers that they’re saying they want paid nationally.

“Judge by what they do, not what they say”
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So these negotiations have been finalized then? The Union is negotiating still.

Desperation.
 
Red Dreams said:
So these negotiations have been finalized then? The Union is negotiating still.

Desperation.
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Bud I don’t know what is so hard to understand about the fact that $36,000 was agreed upon. People have been being paid $36,000. It’s been in effect since May 2nd, 2019.

Said people have since raised a stink about it and then brought the union back to the negotiating table because the campaign wasn’t practicing what it is preaching and have been paying them less than $15 an hour when their salary was divided by hours worked.
 
Some pretty disingenuous points being made by CR in this thread. Not only is Bernie the only candidate to encourage and recognize a unionized campaign staff, they just ratified an agreement two months ago and are in further negotiations (as unions do) continually. The article itself even states that Sanders suggested employees only work 43 hours until this negotiations are complete, which of course is over $15 with several thousands dollars to spare. Furthermore, several union reps within the campaign itself are quoted explicitly stating that the leaker acted in bad faith. Which is something I would extend to CR, a self proclaimed socialist who is taking things out of context and manipulating facts in order to discredit the only candidate who calls himself a socialist.
 
Carolina Red said:
Bud I don’t know what is so hard to understand about the fact that $36,000 was agreed upon. People have been being paid $36,000. Said people have raised a stink about it and then brought the union back to the negotiating table because the campaign wasn’t practicing what it is preaching.
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Were they not talking about the hours that effectively reduced the hourly rate?

Key point. It was not an Hourly wage rate to start with.
 
Red Dreams said:
Were they not talking about the hours that effectively reduced the hourly rate?

Key point. It was not an Hourly wage rate to start with.
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Key point: $36,000 / # hours worked is less than $15 an hour.

Anyway you cut it, the campaign isn’t practicing what it preaches there.
 
Eboue said:
Some pretty disingenuous points being made by CR in this thread. Not only is Bernie the only candidate to encourage and recognize a unionized campaign staff, they just ratified an agreement two months ago and are in further negotiations (as unions do) continually. The article itself even states that Sanders suggested employees only work 43 hours until this negotiations are complete, which of course is over $15 with several thousands dollars to spare. Furthermore, several union reps within the campaign itself are quoted explicitly stating that the leaker acted in bad faith. Which is something I would extend to CR, a self proclaimed socialist who is taking things out of context and manipulating facts in order to discredit the only candidate who calls himself a socialist.
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It is indeed unfortunate that CR has stooped to this.

But hey.

Lets vote for Trump Lite Biden who is taking the Ted Cruz stance on Medicare For All.

Woo Hoo.
 
Red Dreams said:
It is indeed unfortunate that CR has stooped to this.

But hey.

Lets vote for Trump Lite Biden who is taking the Ted Cruz stance on Medicare For All.

Woo Hoo.
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Meh. Holier than thous like you and @Eboue are going to help get trump reelected. You are just as bad.
 
NM said:
Meh. Holier than thous like you and @Eboue are going to help get trump reelected. You are just as bad.
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You really dont know anything about me. I've criticized Bernie multiple times on here for multiple issues I disagreed with. But I didn't manipulate facts and use right wing talking points like the self proclaimed socialist CR.
 
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