2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Red Dreams said:
While I understand voting for ' the lesser of two evils', it always results in further angst.
Nothing gets done.

Biden is worse than Hillary in many ways because he is so pally with the Republicans.

I think he wont be the nominee in any case.
Harris is pathetic.

So we are left with Bernie or Warren.
I will vote for Warren if she becomes the nominee just to see if she actually does anything.
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This is one of your reasons? And you say I'm behind ...
 
shamans said:
Sure. Green smilies, condescending tone. This is what got Trump in charge and until this self righteous attitude of Americans won't change it will stay like this.

Also, I get my info from reading about actual stance on issues than a redcafe forum half filled with europeans.
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From your brief posts, you have obviously drunk the MSM cool aid.

Pointless.
 
shamans said:
Biden talks about investing in central America to solve the root problem.
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So we are just moving onto Biden now ? Ok


This will be all the more difficult as Biden sometimes took a direct role on this issue. As large numbers of children fleeing violence in Central America wound up in border states in 2014, Biden flew to Guatemala to meet with officials from several countries in the region to urge them to discourage their attempts to escape. While saying it was “clear we have to deal with the root causes,” Biden pledged more money for the Central American Regional Security Initiative, a program that funneled money toward the region’s corrupt and abusive security forces whose results were questionable at best.

Biden acknowledged that violence in “our most dangerous places” was “a major reason” for the exodus of children. Yet he also boasted of “enhancing the enforcement and removal proceedings,” something he painted one minute as almost a humanitarian measure to reunite families, and the next minute something for those making the trip to “be aware of what awaits them.” “It will not be open arms,” he said. Indeed, according to a 2014 lawsuit filed by the ACLU, migrant children were deprived of medical treatment, shackled, sexually abused, and forced to drink toilet water by border agents.

It was Biden who spearheaded the administration’s response to the crisis, the Alliance for Prosperity, a plan that promised financial incentives to Central American states in return for stepping up deportations and border militarization, which it also funded. Those incentives included pushing for privatization, free trade zones with special regulatory carve-outs for foreign investors, and the creation of logistics corridors for the movement of goods and new infrastructure, such as a new gas pipeline that opened up new markets for US gas exporters. Ironically, these policies were set to perpetuate the very economic and environmental conditions that saw migrants flee the region and peasants, indigenous people, and activists like Berta Cáceres protest and, sometimes, die over.

While the vast majority of the investment would come from home countries, the US was on the hook for $1 billion per year over five years. Though the amount of aid fell far short of this, it became known as “Biden’s billion,” with the former vice president making a public push for the scheme that would hand $100 million more to abusive security forces that members of Congress were, at that very time, busy calling for a complete cut-off of aid to.

There was a reason Obama chose Biden to lead the plan: it was modeled on the Clinton-era Plan Colombia, of which Biden called himself “one of the architects.” Biden urged Congress to approve the plan after personally visiting Colombia in 2000, initially viewing it as a way to internationalize the “war on drugs” he had helped birth in the 1980s.

In practice, the scheme had done more to open the country up to foreign investment than to stem the flow of drugs. At the same time, the increased investment in security forces that came attached to US funding fueled breathtaking state violence in the country — 1.8 million displaced in three years and 3,000 innocent people killed, dressed up as guerrillas to claim reward money — while its anti-coca fumigation program destroyed only food crops, paradoxically feeding the growth of cocaine cultivation.

Biden viewed all of these plans as successes, even as they fed into a vicious cycle by helping foster the very violence and deprivation that would push ever larger numbers of migrants out, in turn necessitating the plans’ revival. In a June 2018 op-ed, he name-checked both Plan Colombia and the Alliance for Prosperity as models for US policy to deal with the migration crisis going forward. A few months later a thousands-strong caravan of Central American migrants would dominate headlines, driven from their homes thanks in part to that same plan pushed by Biden while vice president.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/04/joe-biden-anti-immigrant-deportation-policies
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shamans said:
I don't like being fooled.
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shamans said:
Biden is my man.
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Fair enough if you didn't know this stuff, most people don't.
 
Sweet Square said:
So we are just moving onto Biden now ? Ok







Fair enough if you didn't know this stuff, most people don't.
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Jeez talk about framing an article like the one there. I'm not even going to bother asking your author source on that.

That article has convinced me even more people are sheep unwilling to form their own opinions.
 
shamans said:
Jeez talk about framing an article like the one there. I'm not even going to bother asking your author source on that.

That article has convinced me even more people are sheep unwilling to form their own opinions.
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So your literally calling it fake news ? Honestly do you think the article I posted is completely made up ? Did you even read it ?

Rather than just calling you a thick shite(Which clearly might have been the more productive option) I actually tried and this is how you respond back ?
 
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Sweet Square said:
Fake news ? Honestly do you the article I posted is completely made up ?

Also rather than just calling you a thick shite I actually tried and this is how you respond back ?
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It's not made up but the link is "BIDEN AGAINST IMMIGRATION" I can easily find something against any candidate like that. I read the article. It's some convoluted mental gymnastics to portray him as the villain. Unless you believe in open borders I don't know what your proposed solution is.
 
shamans said:
That article has convinced me even more people are sheep unwilling to form their own opinions.
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Saying this about Jacobin of all things is a shockingly absurd statement. They're named after the perpetrators of The Terror during the French Revolution, and call themselves socialists in a country which has historically supported right-wing dictators over elected socialists in other countries. And you're calling those guys sheep.

I'm gobsmacked.
 
shamans said:
It's not made up but the link is "BIDEN AGAINST IMMIGRATION" .
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The link is called Joe Biden, Anti-Immigrant Enabler ? So I'm not sure what your on about there(Plus in the whole article the writer at times gives credit to how Biden has voted)


shamans said:
I can easily find something against any candidate like that.
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Cheers can I have one for Bernie, Warren, Harris please. But seriously er.....ok but the criticism of Biden's history of policy still stand right ? Just because other could also be bad doesn't somehow make Biden good.

shamans said:
I I read the article. It's some convoluted mental gymnastics to portray him as the villain.
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Mental gymnastics such as ?

shamans said:
Unless you believe in open borders I don't know what your proposed solution is.
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But it's clear Biden position doesn't work at all. Maybe there isn't a fix all solution at the moment, so we should be aiming to at least make things easier and safer for immigrates(Again something Biden history of policy has failed at) right ?
 
Sweet Square said:
But it's clear Biden position doesn't work at all. Maybe there isn't a fix all solution at the moment, so we should be aiming to at least make things easier and safer for immigrates(Again something Biden history of policy has failed at) right ?
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So what solution do you propose? I look around and see Biden's plan as a good one. Others don't give me any hope. I don't want Walls and I don't want open boundaries.
 
Eboue said:
A trump voter is a racist. That's what you are. A racist.
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Nice, I don't remember checking that on the form. I haven't voted for trump btw but even if I did you can label me all I want. I know what I am. I have never thought along the lines of race in my life and anyone that knows me can testify to that so calling me a racist makes you look like a fool
 
shamans said:
Nice, I don't remember checking that on the form. I haven't voted for trump btw but even if I did you can label me all I want. I know what I am. I have never thought along the lines of race in my life and anyone that knows me can testify to that so calling me a racist makes you look like a fool
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you are determined by your actions.

Not what you say.

If you vote for a racist, you are racist.
 
shamans said:
I look around and see Biden's plan as a good one.
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But you just told me that you read the article

It was Biden who spearheaded the administration’s response to the crisis, the Alliance for Prosperity, a plan that promised financial incentives to Central American states in return for stepping up deportations and border militarization, which it also funded. Those incentives included pushing for privatization, free trade zones with special regulatory carve-outs for foreign investors, and the creation of logistics corridors for the movement of goods and new infrastructure, such as a new gas pipeline that opened up new markets for US gas exporters. Ironically, these policies were set to perpetuate the very economic and environmental conditions that saw migrants flee the region and peasants, indigenous people, and activists like Berta Cáceres protest and, sometimes, die over.

While the vast majority of the investment would come from home countries, the US was on the hook for $1 billion per year over five years. Though the amount of aid fell far short of this, it became known as “Biden’s billion,” with the former vice president making a public push for the scheme that would hand $100 million more to abusive security forces that members of Congress were, at that very time, busy calling for a complete cut-off of aid to.

There was a reason Obama chose Biden to lead the plan: it was modeled on the Clinton-era Plan Colombia, of which Biden called himself“one of the architects.” Biden urged Congress to approve the plan after personally visiting Colombia in 2000, initially viewing it as a way to internationalize the “war on drugs” he had helped birth in the 1980s.

In practice, the scheme had done more to open the country up to foreign investment than to stem the flow of drugs. At the same time, the increased investment in security forces that came attached to US funding fueled breathtaking state violence in the country — 1.8 million displaced in three years and 3,000 innocent people killed, dressed up as guerrillas to claim reward money — while its anti-coca fumigation program destroyed only food crops, paradoxically feeding the growth of cocaine cultivation.

Biden viewed all of these plans as successes, even as they fed into a vicious cycle by helping foster the very violence and deprivation that would push ever larger numbers of migrants out, in turn necessitating the plans’ revival. In a June 2018 op-ed, he name-checked both Plan Colombia and the Alliance for Prosperity as models for US policy to deal with the migration crisis going forward. A few months later a thousands-strong caravan of Central American migrants would dominate headlines, driven from their homes thanks in part to that same plan pushed by Biden while vice president.
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How is any of this good ?

shamans said:
Others don't give me any hope. I don't want Walls and I don't want open boundaries.
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The answer for now is border reform.

shamans said:
So what solution do you propose?
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https://berniesanders.com/issues/immigration-reform/

and

First, the imperfect: he inexplicably voted for a 2006 bill that allowed for the indefinite detention “of specified dangerous aliens” awaiting a final ruling on their deportation. The legislation, as the ACLU put it, “would broaden” a “constitutionally dubious practice.” And that same year, he voted to block the US government from sharing intelligence on Minutemen vigilantes with Mexico. Neither of these votes — the former, legislation that died in the Senate, and the latter purely if toxically symbolic — has been satisfactorily explained. Bernie should say that both votes were a mistake.

Far more importantly, however, Sanders has mostly voted correctly on the major legislation that has defined immigration politics since he first entered the House.

He voted against 2006 Secure Fence Act to build hundreds of miles of border wall — unlike Obama, Clinton, and Biden, when the bill came to the Senate. He voted against a 2007 “reform bill” that included legalization for undocumented workers but also harsh enforcement and a guest-worker program. It was supported by mainstream immigrant rights groups but opposed by the left grassroots movement. In 2013, however, he voted in favor of similar legislation, falling in line behind mainstream immigrant rights groups and the Obama White House. He voted against the 1996 Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act, which greatly expanded government power to detain and deport.

And perhaps most importantly of all, he was one of just eighty-seven House members to vote “no” on the catastrophic Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act (IIRIRA), which firmly linked the deportation machinery to the system of mass incarceration.

Bernie is also the only candidate with an economic and foreign policy agenda consonant with substantive support for immigrant rights.

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/04/bernie-sanders-immigrant-rights-border-policy
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shamans said:
Yes and my intent is to see it solved not get into who said the bad things. Who will solve it.
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Good.

The deportation policies of the United States since the 1980s have helped to create the current humanitarian crisis in Central America.

Agree or Disagree?
 
Carolina Red said:
Good.

The deportation policies of the United States since the 1980s have helped to create the current humanitarian crisis in Central America.

Agree or Disagree?
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"have helped" can mean many things. I agree it contributes to it but no way is it the root cause. If deportations stopped, the crises wouldn't end but they do add to an existing problem.
 
shamans said:
Well I'd rather see him do his 4 years and bring some stability than see Sanders in office with every bill being opposed and rejected. You realize he doesn't have a wand and cant magically turn U.S into utopia for you no matter what his supporters say.
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Wow, just seen this! God bless America, you are fecked!
 
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