2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress

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Carolina Red said:
Okay. That still is a completely different tangent from what I was saying, but at least you admit that you like the policies she’s putting forward now and have moved on from saying she doesn’t support something that she’s supported for years.
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I've always liked what I was hearing from her and have said if I could not vote for Bernie I could easily vote for Warren assuming she actually means what says.

On the point you raise. Yes I was wrong.

"A person is judged by his/her deeds not his/her words."

Do I trust her?

The fact is she splits the Progressive vote. Does this help the cause she claims to fight for?
 
Organic Potatoes said:
He’s so vain he’d probably take it as them giving him special treatment by giving him his own room away from the crowds.
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Red Dreams said:
I've always liked what I was hearing from her and have said if I could not vote for Bernie I could easily vote for Warren assuming she actually means what says.

On the point you raise. Yes I was wrong.

"A person is judged by his/her deeds not his/her words."

Do I trust her?

The fact is she splits the Progressive vote. Does this help the cause she claims to fight for?
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1) I’m curious as to this intrinsic trust you have for Sanders but not for Warren.

2) You could likewise say that Sanders is splitting the progressive vote. Does that help the cause...etc?

The only real explanation is that you are already biased towards Sanders and therefore intrinsically see Warren as an imposter and an enemy of “the movement”.
 
I guess the Bernie bros are bitterly disappointed that Hillary isn’t running to split the Biden votes. ;)
 
Carolina Red said:
1) I’m curious as to this intrinsic trust you have for Sanders but not for Warren.

2) You could likewise say that Sanders is splitting the progressive vote. Does that help the cause...etc?

The only real explanation is that you are already biased towards Sanders and therefore intrinsically see Warren as an imposter and an enemy of “the movement”.
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Bernie has for years proved his progressive views ever since his college days even being arrested and marching with Dr. King.
He has nothing to prove

Warren still has to walk the talk.
 
Red Dreams said:
Bernie has for years proved his progressive views ever since his college days even being arrested and marching with Dr. King.
He has nothing to prove

Warren still has to walk the talk.
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He still has to prove his ability to actually get anything done. He's all talk.
 
This just illustrates why some of these national polls are laughable and should not be taken seriously.

 
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Charlie Foley said:
https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-...-sanders-was-roll-call-amendment-king-1995-2/
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He said pass laws (bills), not pass amendments to bills.
Of course, amendments are just one of the ways lawmakers press their agendas. Sanders has had much less luck with passing bills.

During his 25 years in Congress, Sanders introduced 324 bills, three of which became law. This includes a bill in a Republican Congress naming a post office in Vermont and two more while Democrats had control (one naming another Vermont post office and another increasing veterans’ disability compensation).
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Carolina Red said:
He said pass laws (bills), not pass amendments to bills.
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Sir I am aware what a bill is.

He also said in the same conversation Sanders had not shown he could "actually get anything done." That is not the case as shown by his number of amendments. I added the article because I found it interesting and I think it's something many people might not know.

Besides, Amendments are an important part of any legislative process.
 
For anyone criticising Bernie on bills, and the bills/amendments thing, this is a must-read

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/inside-the-horror-show-that-is-congress-177955/
(from 2005, when he was a nobody in the House)

And there is a major, in fact historical bill, that Bernie sponsored, fought for inside and outside Congress, and got passed through a GOP senate. It was the bill to stop US involvement in the Saudi war in Yemen, the first successful invocation of the War Powers Act in US history. Trump vetoed it...which takes me back to - the link at the top, read it.


From the article intro:

Bush’s summer bills were extraordinary pieces of legislation, broad in scope, transparently brazen and audaciously indulgent. They gave an energy industry drowning in the most obscene profits in its history billions of dollars in subsidies and tax breaks, including $2.9 billion for the coal industry. The highway bill set new standards for monstrous and indefensibly wasteful spending, with Congress allocating $100,000 for a single traffic light in Canoga Park, California, and $223 million for the construction of a bridge linking the mainland an Alaskan island with a population of just fifty.

It was a veritable bonfire of public money, and it raged with all the brilliance of an Alabama book-burning. And what fueled it all were the little details you never heard about. The energy bill alone was 1,724 pages long. By the time the newspapers reduced this Tolstoyan monster to the size of a single headline announcing its passage, only a very few Americans understood that it was an ambitious giveaway to energy interests But the drama of the legislative process is never in the broad strokes but in the bloody skirmishes and power plays that happen behind the scenes.

...

I had no way of knowing that Sanders would be a perfect subject for another, more compelling reason. In the first few weeks of my stay in Washington, Sanders introduced and passed, against very long odds, three important amendment. A fourth very nearly made it and would have passed had it gone to a vote. During this time, Sanders took on powerful adversaries, including Lockheed Martin, Westinghouse, the Export-Import Bank and the Bush administration. And by using the basic tools of democracy – floor votes on clearly posed questions, with the aid of painstakingly built coalitions of allies from both sides of the aisle – he, a lone Independent, beat them all.

It was an impressive run, with some in his office calling it the best winning streak of his career. Except for one thing.

By my last week in Washington, all of his victories had been rolled back, each carefully nurtured amendment perishing in the grossly corrupt and absurd vortex of political dysfunction that is today’s U. S. Congress. What began as a tale of political valor ended as a grotesque object lesson in the ugly realities of American politics – the pitfalls of digging for hope in a shit mountain.
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I'm now going down a rabbit hole of who has seen legislation they themselves sponsored (excluding co-sponsoring) become law. Not including amendments because they don't count apparently (?)

37 pieces of legislation sponsored by John McCain became law.

Liz has had one pass both chambers and it was "A concurrent resolution authorizing the use of Emancipation Hall in the Capitol Visitor Center for the unveiling of the American Prisoners of War/Missing in Action (POW/MIA) Chair of Honor." Right.

Nancy Pelosi-421! Half of those by 1994, she's really slowed down.

She has 26 post offices named.

Ted Kennedy 672 'became law,' appears there are no post offices for him. You go, Ted.
 
Also that article has some free lessons in winning and power that the Republicans have been giving Democrats for more than a decade:

[...] Sensenbrenner suddenly decided he’d heard enough during a Judiciary Committee hearing on the Patriot Act and went completely Tasmanian devil on a group of Democratic withnesses who had come to share stories of abuses at places like Guanténamo Bay. Apparently not wanting to hear any of that stuff, Sensenbrenner got up midmeeting and killed the lights, turned off the microphones and shut down the C-Span feed, before marching his fellow Republicans out of the room – leaving the Democrats and their witnesses in the dark.

This lights-out technique was actually pioneered by another Republican, former Commerce Committee chairman Thomas Bliley, who in 1995 hit the lights on a roomful of senior citizens who had come to protest Newt Gingrich’s Medicare plan. Bliley, however, went one step further than Sensenbrenner, ordering Capitol police to arrest the old folks when they refused to move. Sensenbrenner might have tried the same thing in his outburst, except that his party had just voted to underfund the Capitol police.
...

[...] enabled Sanders to approach the Rules Committee holding more than his hat in his hand. With the June vote, he had concrete evidence to show the committee that if his amendment to permanently alter the Patriot Act were allowed to reach the floor, it would pass. Now, if Tom DeLay & Co. were going to disallow Sanders’ amendment, they were going to have to openly defy a majority vote of the U.S. Congress to do so.

Which, it turns out, isn’t much of a stumbling block.

While Sanders was facing the Rules Committee, House leaders were openly threatening their fellow members about the upcoming vote on CAFTA. “We will twist their arms until they break” was the Stalin-esque announcement of Arizona Republican Jim Kolbe.

The hard-ass, horse-head-in-the-bed threat is a defining characteristic of this current set of House leaders, whose willingness to go to extreme lengths to get their way has become legend. In 2003, Nick Smith, a Michigan legislator nearing retirement, was told by Republican leadership that if he didn’t vote for the GOP’s Medicare bill, the party would put for ward a primary challenger against his son Brad, who was planning to run for his seat.

When Rep. Chris Smith complained about Bush’s policy toward veterans, he was relieved of his seat as the Veterans’ Committee chairman. When Joel Hefley locked horns with Dennis Hastert during the Tom DeLay ethics flap, Hefley lost his spot as the House Ethics Committee chairman.

...

When Sanders offered his amendment to deny funding for warrantless searches, Flake was right there by his side. But now, only a few weeks later, Flake suddenly offers his own amendment, aimed at the same provision of the Patriot Act as Sanders’, but with one big difference: It surrenders on the issue of probable cause. The Flake amendment would require only that the FBI director approve any library and bookstore searches.

Flake denies he cut a deal to sell out on the Patriot Act. But his cave-in effectively spelled the end of the Sanders amendment. The Republicans point to the Flake amendment to show that they addressed concerns about library and bookstore searches. Essentially, the House leaders have taken the Sanders measure, cut all the guts out of it, bullied one of their own into offering it in the form of a separate amendment and sent it sailing through the House, leaving Sanders – and probable cause – to suck eggs.
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Fergies Gum said:
This just illustrates why some of these national polls are laughable and should not be taken seriously.

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Why? Asking about Rapinoe in a presidential head 2 head is a bit silly of course, but the numbers reflect how polarized the country is.
 
I will laugh so much if Yang or Gabbard overtake Buttigieg or Beto. It will be utterly irrelevant and extremely funny
 
Sweet Square said:
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In a sign of the shifting tides within the Democratic Party, all of the major presidential candidates skipped the most recent AIPAC summit (the annual D.C conference of the pro-Israel lobbying group). Haim blames Sanders for that phenomenon.

"I can't deny the impact that Bernie has had on the Democratic Party," he adds. "I love it when Bernie says, 'I recognize Israel's right to exist.' That's how he expresses his support of Israel. Well, thank you so very much. Are you out of your freaking mind? Oh, I'm allowed to live. Hallelujah, praise the lord."

Political watchers have taken Haim's inactivity on the primary front as a sign that he might flip to the Republicans. Not a chance, he says, though there are some Republicans he admires — "We loved McCain. We love Lindsey Graham." But he insists the Sabans will remain Democrats.

These guys are single issue donors
 
Suedesi said:
Both Beto and Buttface are irrelevant and have zero chance at winning
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They are also smarmy twats which is why it would be so funny. They can drop out in two languages!

I wonder what a lot of those 1%ers think. I saw Jay Inslee speak at a conference this spring and he seems a pretty vanilla old guy, but he does really care about climate change so props for that.
 
Suedesi said:
In a sign of the shifting tides within the Democratic Party, all of the major presidential candidates skipped the most recent AIPAC summit (the annual D.C conference of the pro-Israel lobbying group). Haim blames Sanders for that phenomenon.

"I can't deny the impact that Bernie has had on the Democratic Party," he adds. "I love it when Bernie says, 'I recognize Israel's right to exist.' That's how he expresses his support of Israel. Well, thank you so very much. Are you out of your freaking mind? Oh, I'm allowed to live. Hallelujah, praise the lord."

Political watchers have taken Haim's inactivity on the primary front as a sign that he might flip to the Republicans. Not a chance, he says, though there are some Republicans he admires — "We loved McCain. We love Lindsey Graham." But he insists the Sabans will remain Democrats.

These guys are single issue donors
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This feckin asshole is 74 years old. He shouldnt be allowed to have opinions anymore and yet his whims have a large influence on the future of the country. Confiscate all money from olds and put them in retirement homes once they turn 70
 
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