I take it you disagree then.
2020 US Elections | Biden certified as President | Dems control Congress
- Thread starter Raoul
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I take it you disagree then.
Warren can win over soccer moms, brilliant! The issue is that Warren can't win over or help organise the one group of people she needs to ''make capitalism work for everyone'' - the american working class. Without this group meaningful reforms are impossible, so it's going to be a wasted 4 years.
The so called working class aren't politically monolithic and vote on only one issue. Trump lulled many of them over to the GOP last cycle, so its fair to say they come from a fairly disparate set of political views and can vote for literally anyone who speaks to each individual voter's needs. In this sense, Warren and Sanders are generally in the same category. Anti-corporation, anti-corruption, reduced defense, pro-climate change policies, anti-Nafta 2.0, pro-union, rebuilding the middle class etc etc. There is very little between them that your average voter would look at and say that they are voting for one over the other.
The 'cult' of Bernie is a fairly lazy criticism - most of his keen leftist supporters here have admitted they prefer him because of what espouses and would happily switch to someone else with similar views if said person was a stronger candidate. I like Warren to an extent but certain reservations over her are warranted.
This is fair admittedly - much as I'd strongly argue Bernie's policies are the most advantageous for the working class as a whole it's arguably quite lazy to group them together into one homogeneous band considering the size of America and the disparity of wealth in various different states/areas. Much as Bernie's popular there are clearly plenty who don't mind the centrist candidates and who perhaps take issue with some of Bernie's policies.
I don't completely disagree, no, but you dialled it up to 11 while trying to defend a comment for which you had already been accused of exaggerating.
Trump lulled some stupid old white workers, the story of 2016 is Clinton failing to get working class people to vote for her. The turnout in 2016 was awful and shouldn't be used a representation of really anything.
Universal Healthcare ?
But all this is beside the point. Again Warren thinks you can get reforms without the need of working class pressure. So when her plans fail due the republicans and dems not moving she is fecked, she hasn't got any alternative answer to get reforms.
Same can be applied to Sanders as well as anyone else. The GOP will likely still control the Senate so most policies would get blocked.
No because Sander believes the way you push forward policy is through working class movements/protests(Bernie literally says this at his rallies). Would this work who knows but it is a actual alternative. Warren doesn't have this.
@Raoul the so called cult of Bernie is not necessarily a bad thing. Should he win the presidency, it could a actually be good that he has a lot of passionate followers who are likely to stay engaged and get into the ears of their local reps.
That's fine but you can't "push forward policy" without the US Senate cooperating, and until the Dems reclaim the Senate with enough left leaning Senators who actually buy into Sanders style politics, there will be no movement. Medicare for all, Green New Deal, all the other aspirational policies will be dead in the water.
Having people that are engaged on policy is definitely a good thing, but it's highly likely that Sanders would diverge from what he is running on once he gets into office. Presidents almost always run on a form aspirational idealism only to quickly moderate to pragmatism once they are in office. They are introduced to information and intelligence that forces them to drift towards more conservative policies than what they ran on and Sanders would almost surely disappoint his flock by doing the same. The three areas where I can easily see this happening is guns, Israel policy, and defense.
Happy the gap between Biden and the rest is closing. The abortion thing is a farce. Like your racist grandpa trying be progressive all of a sudden.
This is pretty much exactly what you told us would happen with Trump.
At this is where the movement would come in. Sander has said he would go to the state of Senators(Including Democrats)who are stopping medicare for all.
Just today Sanders was marching with workers
There could be mass strike to force through policies like medicare for all and a green new deal. Yes this is all pie in the sky stuff but its more than Warren has.
Trump is clearly an outlier in just about every way imaginable.
You'd still need control of the legislative bodies to move policy, and as we've seen, McConnell controls that for now and could care less if certain groups are demonstrating.
That's one way to see it. Seemingly the Biden view, "once Trump is gone everything will go back to normal."
Another way to see it might be that there is a growing trend of people being bored to death and disillusioned with standard liberal politics, and as a result there is an increased polarization by which more radical, extremist politics can hope to succeed.
If that were true then I would imagine it would be reflected in the polling during this year's primaries. The fact that so many people are banking on Biden suggests they want to return to some degree of normalcy over the sort of systemic change that the likes of Sanders are pushing. If on the other hand, either of Sanders or Warren win then it would be a sign that the country is moving more in that direction.
It's June 2019, long way to go. I'll be shocked if Biden is President in 2021. Then again, I'll be surprised if Trump isn't.
I'm beginning to drift towards the camp that Biden will get clobbered during and after the debates. His latest flip flop on the Hyde amendment seems like a shot across the bow of an impending litany of issues he will switch policies on this cycle, which will give his opponents plenty of ammo to go after him.
Bernie is simply addressing the main concerns of people.
Universal Health Care and Climate Change.
I suppose you can call those who want these fundamental things cultist followers. pretty lame actually.
And bringing up the age old capitalism and Socialism words is worse. Newsflash. Those who are concerned about such things are the braindeads who were never going to vote for him anyway.
How do you think Capitalism has been treating people?
Yeah right. And the proven alternative who can 'win'??
Joe Biden
Lets examine his two major policy roll outs.
Climate Change.
His advisers simply plagiarized others and came up with a time line that defeats the purpose of implementing such a policy.
The critical time line is 12 years. Not 50. Talk about slamming the barn door shut after the horses have bolted.
Or Biden knows he is going to croak it and does not give a shit.
Hyde Amendment.
You could not make it up.
After decades supporting it he suddenly has a err Epiphany. woo hoo.
Now he is all concerned about Roe v Wade.
Now his 'cultist' corporate overlords may think this will convince people.
I doubt though that people who have some critical thinking will buy it.
ahhh. peleasee.
Must try harder.
Universal Health Care and Climate Change.
I suppose you can call those who want these fundamental things cultist followers. pretty lame actually.
And bringing up the age old capitalism and Socialism words is worse. Newsflash. Those who are concerned about such things are the braindeads who were never going to vote for him anyway.
How do you think Capitalism has been treating people?
Yeah right. And the proven alternative who can 'win'??
Joe Biden
Lets examine his two major policy roll outs.
Climate Change.
His advisers simply plagiarized others and came up with a time line that defeats the purpose of implementing such a policy.
The critical time line is 12 years. Not 50. Talk about slamming the barn door shut after the horses have bolted.
Or Biden knows he is going to croak it and does not give a shit.
Hyde Amendment.
You could not make it up.
After decades supporting it he suddenly has a err Epiphany. woo hoo.
Now he is all concerned about Roe v Wade.
Now his 'cultist' corporate overlords may think this will convince people.
I doubt though that people who have some critical thinking will buy it.
ahhh. peleasee.
Must try harder.
Just when you thought Fontaine was no longer with us...Also worth noting that in a Presidential system the chances of this happening are arguably heightened due to the nature of the system - you're only really needing to win over the voters as a whole, not your party's inner circle, even if it's handy to have them on-board.
Trump may be a modern day outlier in many respects but he's hardly the first President who's employed forceful methods of populism to get his own way. Even though they varied largely in their approach both in regards to Trump and each other, guys like FDR and Jackson are arguably cut from a similar cloth in that they used the office to implement major domestic reforms on a popular tide of support even if they faced significant opposition.
Forget Biden, he’ll be out of it. Focus on others.Bernie is simply addressing the main concerns of people.
Universal Health Care and Climate Change.
I suppose you can call those who want these fundamental things cultist followers. pretty lame actually.
And bringing up the age old capitalism and Socialism words is worse. Newsflash. Those who are concerned about such things are the braindeads who were never going to vote for him anyway.
How do you think Capitalism has been treating people?
Yeah right. And the proven alternative who can 'win'??
Joe Biden
Lets examine his two major policy roll outs.
Climate Change.
His advisers simply plagiarized others and came up with a time line that defeats the purpose of implementing such a policy.
The critical time line is 12 years. Not 50. Talk about slamming the barn door shut after the horses have bolted.
Or Biden knows he is going to croak it and does not give a shit.
Hyde Amendment.
You could not make it up.
After decades supporting it he suddenly has a err Epiphany. woo hoo.
Now he is all concerned about Roe v Wade.
Now his 'cultist' corporate overlords may think this will convince people.
I doubt though that people who have some critical thinking will buy it.
ahhh. peleasee.
Must try harder.
I've already answered this.
Again for the millionth time Bernie way might not work(Although historically it has)but its more than what Warren has.
I believe the large field is a DNC strategy to distract. Otherwise people will be focused on the huge differences between Bernie and Biden.
I hope Warren is not being used by the DNC to dilute Bernie support. Remember Nina Turner attacking her last cycle.
It very much feels like Bernie or Bust to me.
One way to see if the others are mere fodder is see if they will attack Biden for his obvious hypocrisy.
The crooked corporatist DNC are plotting to ruin it again are they ? Remarkable how they've managed to recruit so many people to run just to thwart Bernie.
I see what people do.
Only Bernie has been direct in his attacks.
The others will not stray. The reason is simple. They are owned by the corporations. That is a fact.
Just watch the debates unfold.
who is Fontaine ?
It's got to be Bernie right? I love Warren's policies, I think she'd be a solid choice for Veep or Senate Majority Leader if they retake the Senate but she just doesn't resonate with the electorate the way Bernie does. I do think Sanders needs to be better articulating his plan to help manufacturing workers in the central states, he's very strong on healthcare and education but needs to put more emphasis on jobs. The polls are full of crap, Biden won't win a single state imo, that's why he's running scared from all these events, he knows the reception he'll get.
i hate this guy so much
Watching CNN anchors looking confused why Elizabeth Warren was surging in the Iowa polls proves that they have learned nothing from 2016 and are firmly stuck in that establishment bubble.
No one mentioning that Gabbard's been having dinners at elite private NYC clubs with Wall Street bankers?
A GOOD POSTER BUT A DIFFICULT PERSONALITY
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