2018 US Elections

“The Greens cost the Dems” is almost as bad as trying to criticise Beyoncé for not openly supporting Beto before the day of the election, almost.
 
Red Dreams said:
Not bizarre at all.

The direction of the country is paramount.

Voting for corporatists has brought us to this mess.
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I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

So the direction of the country is somehow going to change when you abstain on the right wing candidate backed by big business, only to see the right wing candidate backed by big business and the absolute worst of society win?

We are not talking about a primary fight. I have no problem with people standing on principles and voting their belief, but your way of thinking - compromise on every other office to alleviate harm, but not president - is absolutely bonkers.
 
Directly voting for President is the only election form that I can understand when people vote for someone who isn't identical to them belief wise. Even if PR was a thing in America, sure I would vote Green/Socialist down through the ticket if I were a citizen, but I might want a charismatic centre-left president rather than, say, and eccentric and error-prone socialist. A president represents your country on the world stage, you want them to obviously want similar things to you, but perhaps might be inclined to compromise in order for better progress abroad. Internally that isn't an issue.

EDIT: By centre-left I obviously don't mean someone like Obama or Clinton who are centre-right at best. Perhaps someone of the Bernie/Beto ilk.
 
The greens are becoming irrelevant. Democrats will adopt ,if they haven't already most of their ideas.
 
Eboue said:
These people knew it would be a close election and some of them knew their candidate had dropped out and they still didnt vote Democrat. You know why? Its because they arent Democrats.

They arent progressive Democrats, they believe in different things.
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But surely they realised that the party that won the election would also be governing them and their country. Surely in that situation you would then vote for the best of the two parties left wouldn’t you? The decisions made by the ruling government would still affect them wouldn’t they?
 
Raoul said:
Go get em...



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The flaw in this argument is that the Democrats don't have some devine right to all non republican votes. They don't own these people's votes, they have to win them, and they fail at doing that.

If Trump ran his exact same 2016 campaign but did it as a Dem plenty would have voted for him just because of the D by his name.

The ridiculous allegiance to party over anything is a problem on both sides of the aisle.
 
Red Defence said:
But surely they realised that the party that won the election would also be governing them and their country. Surely in that situation you would then vote for the best of the two parties left wouldn’t you? The decisions made by the ruling government would still affect them wouldn’t they?
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Not if you are either a) financially well off enough to insulate yourself from any short-term policy change or b) so destitute as to feel none of the impact regardless of the power dynamic.

Of course there are also the personal reasons like wanting social justice, meaningful climate actions etc...that would never be realised by any of the 2 main parties, or just voting purely on affinity.
 
Red Defence said:
But surely they realised that the party that won the election would also be governing them and their country. Surely in that situation you would then vote for the best of the two parties left wouldn’t you? The decisions made by the ruling government would still affect them wouldn’t they?
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Clearly they didn't. They don't come at it from the same perspective as you.
 
WAIT A MINUTE, NELSON MIGHT HAVE A REAL SHOT!!! Maybe like 3:1 or something.

 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

So the direction of the country is somehow going to change when you abstain on the right wing candidate backed by big business, only to see the right wing candidate backed by big business and the absolute worst of society win?

We are not talking about a primary fight. I have no problem with people standing on principles and voting their belief, but your way of thinking - compromise on every other office to alleviate harm, but not president - is absolutely bonkers.
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The point I'm making is this.
The democratic party has played the same game as the Republican party over the last 40 or 50 years.
The other party is worse. Neither actually offered anything concrete for working people. Of course the GOP actually has done harm. They use culture. The standard of living for people has deteriorated over the decades.
And when something like what happened in 2016 does happen, its the voters fault. But is it really?
Put up honest candidates that are beholden to people rather than corporations. Its the huge amount of money in politics on both sides that is destroying millions of lives.
Health Care, Education, Retirement.
I saw Joe Manchin's interview today. I have no problem at all with him.
He represents the values of the people from that state. He fights for Health Care. He supports the 2nd Amendment but also Gun Control. He is for the investigations to go on. But I would not have voted for Hillary because she is simply serving corporations.

By voting for down ticket Democratic candidates I believe I am giving the president the power to push his agendas.

EDIT: Or to stop a Republican president.

The voter has one power. Vote or withhold the vote.

It is never the voters fault.
An honest candidate will always get through.
 
Eboue said:
Clearly they didn't. They don't come at it from the same perspective as you.
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InfiniteBoredom said:
Not if you are either a) financially well off enough to insulate yourself from any short-term policy change or b) so destitute as to feel none of the impact regardless of the power dynamic.

Of course there are also the personal reasons like wanting social justice, meaningful climate actions etc...that would never be realised by any of the 2 main parties, or just voting purely on affinity.
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Have to say I don’t understand why they would not want the best they could for their country.

Here in the U.K. the area I live in tends not to have a Liberal or Green party candidate standing in the GE, so there are only the two main parties left.....Conservative and Labour. The Greens and Liberals still go out and vote for one of those two parties. Makes more sense than not voting.
 
Red Dreams said:
Man I hope so.

So its a problem with ballots from that county only?

Man. When will they learn over there after 2000?
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I'm not sure what the other "issues" that guy is referring to are but yes that specific problem seems to only be with Broward County (Heavily Democrat). Also, since that tweet Nelson's actually got even closer. The deficit now stands at just 17,434. That means the current tally is just 0.2% against Nelson - this is well within automatic recount territory by hand (not just a machine recount). This guy is genuinely drawing extremely live.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
I'm not sure what the other "issues" that guy is referring to are but yes that specific problem seems to only be with Broward County (Heavily Democrat). Also, since that tweet Nelson's actually got even closer. The deficit now stands at just 17,434. That means the current tally is just 0.1% against Nelson - this is well within automatic recount territory by hand (not just a machine recount). This guy is genuinely drawing extremely live.
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An automatic recount will clear up any visual issue that a machine did not read.

Excellent.

Should Sinema win too, we are really looking at a loss of one seat only?
 
Red Dreams said:
An automatic recount will clear up any visual issue that a machine did not read.

Excellent.

Should Sinema win too, we are really looking at a loss of one seat only?
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Looks that way. I reckon it's still most likely that Nelson and Sinema both lose but the odds on one or both winning have definitely improved a lot.

The thing to look out for now are the armies of Republican lawyers who sail in to try and halt, minimise and otherwise undermine the recount process. We also get to find out whether casting a "provisional" ballot is worth less than the paper it's printed on.
 
Ekkie Thump said:
Looks that way. I reckon it's still most likely that Nelson and Sinema both lose but the odds on one or both winning have definitely improved a lot.

The thing to look out for now are the armies of Republican lawyers who sail in to try and halt, minimise and otherwise undermine the recount process. We also get to find out whether casting a "provisional" ballot is worth less than the paper it's printed on.
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I actually think the chances of both winning is pretty good. Lawyers cannot stop votes being counted unless there is no rationale for them to being counted.

EDIT:

A provisional ballot needs to be challenged before it can be discarded.
 
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Red Dreams said:
I actually think the chances of both winning is pretty good. Lawyers cannot stop votes being counted unless there is no rationale for them to being counted.
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Florida Supreme Court and SCOTUS were able to step in and either admit or suspend recounts during the 2000 Gore/Bush debacle. I don't know if anything has changed since then - hopefully it has.

Vis the provisional ballots: Shenanigans may already be underway.

 
Do you remember all those long lines in the Democrat strongholds in Georgia due to lack of voting machines? Its now being reported that hundreds of unused voting machines were left locked in warehouses in the Atlanta area.

Its just disgraceful that local officials in critical voting areas can be so stupid and incompetent.

 
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Fergies Gum said:
Do you remember all those long lines in the Democrat strongholds in Georgia due to lack of voting machines? Its now being reported that hundreds of unused voting machines were left locked in warehouses in the Atlanta area.

Its just disgraceful that local officials in critical voting areas can be so stupid and incompetent.
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I don't think they are stupid or incompetent. They are intentionally suppressing votes.
 
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