2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Anyone that thinks Trump is going to clean up DC/federal politics is living in a dream world. He'll be seeking to enrich himself, his family, some friends/acquaintances, and make backroom deals with whomever.
 
One of the points I thought I was making was that smoking is disproportionately demonised compared to drinking. And mostly because everyone else wants to justify their drinking. So we're most likely coming from the same place.

Just in the wrong thread.
One thing we can all agree on is that they go really well together.
 
One thing we can all agree on is that they go really well together.

Indeed. And hey, I'm not tryna big up smoking, of all the great drugs in the world, it's one of the ones that has basically no benefit whatsoever. But I've always found it interesting how unsympathetically nicotine addiction is seen, especially when compared to the "disease" of alcoholism. Despite being a significantly more addictive drug (second only to heroin) and an even less significant drain on public services.. In fact it's almost unique amongst drug addictions in the way that it's almost never seen as a medical/health issue, as much as a character flaw.

Convo for another time, though.
 
Hilary's permanent open-mouth muppet smiles are so false it looks like a strange disease. And she walks and moves like a woman in her 80s.
Not that Trump is any less grotesque.
 
...I've always found it interesting how unsympathetically nicotine addiction is seen, especially when compared to the "disease" of alcoholism. Despite being a significantly more addictive drug (second only to heroin) and an even less significant drain on public services.
It's because MPs drink a lot. Note how, at Budget time, beer and cigarette prices tend to inflate whereas as spirits prices aren't altered that much. Also, despite the negative effect on social lives and the NHS, the proles must be allowed to vent every weekend, else they might aim their discontent on the authorities.
 
Hilary's permanent open-mouth muppet smiles are so false it looks like a strange disease. And she walks and moves like a woman in her 80s.
Not that Trump is any less grotesque.
She really could do with some better outfits. With all apologies to Death Row Records.
 
Honestly, before the recent information came to light (and I guess that's exactly what it was designed to do) I was fairly content with the thought of Clinton being president and just carrying on whatever Obama has done more or less just so that Trump wasn't president and the sheer ridiculousness of such a thing couldn't happen but honestly she's come out of this (and he, regrettably because I was a big fan but you just knew he had to know) looking every inch the crooked, devious woman that Trump painted her out to be and the sheer fact that she has been privy to so much for so long has institutionalised her corruption. The extent of the infiltration into the media, the powers that be and the big businesses on her end is unbelievable but at the same time it isn't. It's so overblown that it's actually exactly what you think might be going on.

Trump is a horrible candidate for a president, a horrible human being too from what we can glean but perhaps his naivety and general lack of awareness of what's actually going on might be of some benefit to the rest of the world at least. I actually think at this point he's the least dangerous of the two, albeit he's also clearly the least electable by measurement of how fit he is to understand how being in charge of the most powerful country in the world is.

If Hillary is in charge then the status quo continues, her cabinet, the media, Wall Street and everyone else stays exactly as corrupt as they are and they manage to get away with things that by law should get them thrown in prison.

If Trump wins who knows what might happen?

Better the devil you know?

It's a fecking horrible situation to be in as an American voter but because of American influence, it's a fecking horrible situation for all of us.
How is hers stance on Wall Street being involved in regulations any different to what Trump said about businessmen being involved in trade negotiations.
Or is it her 30 years believe that govt should be responsible for healthcare and education, causing the barrage of attacks over the years from the people whose interest she is supposedly representing.
Having friends, channeling money to charitable work or giving paid speeches(earning a living as a private citizen) is all of a sudden become the symbol of selfishness and corruption. Whilst history of deception, fraudulence, divisiveness, etc. are now considered smarts and honesty.
Even (the great) Bernie Sanders understands a political figure has to compromise when dealing with national/international issues because agendas vary. I personally don't think Trump will be a disaster as a president but his supporters will be so disappointed during his tenure, I don't think they'll ever recover.
 
I've said it numerous times WATCH TRUMPLAND!

If Michael Moore is only half right, wow! America is in for a surprise.
Downloaded that, when someone (possibly yourself) mentioned it the other day. Got about three quarters of the way through so far. Finding it heavy handed, even by his standards.
 
Downloaded that, when someone (possibly yourself) mentioned it the other day. Got about three quarters of the way through so far. Finding it heavy handed, even by his standards.

Bowling for Columbine was amazing, Sicko was brilliant, but aside from those two I haven't liked much he has done. I just really enjoyed Trumpland. Maybe because it wasn't anything like I expected it to be, and maybe because it wasn't like a typical MM film, but I really enjoyed it. Each to their own of course, but for me, it helped soften the view of Hillary, and helped me sympathise with her a lot more.
 
Bowling for Columbine was amazing, Sicko was brilliant, but aside from those two I haven't liked much he has done. I just really enjoyed Trumpland. Maybe because it wasn't anything like I expected it to be, and maybe because it wasn't like a typical MM film, but I really enjoyed it. Each to their own of course, but for me, it helped soften the view of Hillary, and helped me sympathise with her a lot more.
Oh, I'd agree it offers a decent account of Hillary, in what I've seen. It's the anti-Trump side that gets a bit silly, at times. I don't really see the need to exaggerate when it comes to him, given how horrendous the facts are.

Bowling for Columbine and Roger & Me are my favourites of his.
 
Oh, I'd agree it offers a decent account of Hillary, in what I've seen. It's the anti-Trump side that gets a bit silly, at times. I don't really see the need to exaggerate when it comes to him, given how horrendous the facts are.

Bowling for Columbine and Roger & Me are my favourites of his.

Roger & Me is excellent too, that would definitely be my top 3 with Bowling and Sicko. I tend to ignore the Tump hyperbole, and to be honest, didn't notice it as much as you obviously did in this film, I actually thought it was lite on the Drumpf attacks. Honestly, I was really shocked at how little he went for Drumpf and how little time he spent on dismantling him or his policies, especially given the title of the film and subject matter. Maybe I should watch it again, but nevertheless, I still found it a great insight in to Hillary and her past and possible motives for her policies.
 
Roger & Me is excellent too, that would definitely be my top 3 with Bowling and Sicko. I tend to ignore the Tump hyperbole, and to be honest, didn't notice it as much as you obviously did in this film, I actually thought it was lite on the Drumpf attacks. Honestly, I was really shocked at how little he went for Drumpf and how little time he spent on dismantling him or his policies, especially given the title of the film and subject matter. Maybe I should watch it again, but nevertheless, I still found it a great insight in to Hillary and her past and possible motives for her policies.


Consistency, you old git.. it's driving me nuts.

Also, paging @Paz
 
It's because MPs drink a lot. Note how, at Budget time, beer and cigarette prices tend to inflate whereas as spirits prices aren't altered that much. Also, despite the negative effect on social lives and the NHS, the proles must be allowed to vent every weekend, else they might aim their discontent on the authorities.

It's not just legislative though, the general public's perception of smoking is as similarly unsympathetic. It's not just the MPs that drink, its virtually our national sport! Health problems incurred by smoking, for example, are more commonly (or at least a lot less controversially) seen as something akin to "reaping what you sow"... Even smack addicts get at least a few tragic film portrayals.

This is definitely a conversation for another thread, but the whole idea of selective drug prohibition is inherently undermined by the near universal legality of alcohol and fags. In fact I'd go as far as to say of all the "big league (bigly)" drugs, the two we've chosen to socially normalise are possiblly the two least reasonable candidates.

If we had to start civilisation over again (and we may have to post Trumpaggedon) I'd choose weed, mud, coke, shrooms, speed, and even most opioids as the legal outlets of choice, over a highless carcinogen that makes you stink, and a depressant with the highest rates of both physical and tangential damage (fights, accidents, stunts, etc) by a margin...and in a heartbeat. But if we're going to stick with what we have, we could at least try and be consistent.

And that's coming from a longtime smoker whose drunk right now!
 
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I don't even know what mud is, chief; for I have led a sheltered life...in a shelter in non-boho Wales. :D
 


All of this could've been cleared up a month ago if the agents responsible had done their jobs. Short of a threat to national security (which Donald Trump is), as many agents as possible should be reviewing the potentially pertinent information. They have special teams that assist with major projects/investigations to augment resources. They could easily do the same for this. If they're worried about leaks, maybe they should examine the last 48 hours.
 
I don't even know what mud is, chief;

Oh, but you do. In fact you could almost say its done nearly as much as United to help put Manchester on the map!...Almost.

Which is probably as close to relevant as I'm gonna make this discussion, tbf. So better quit while I'm (kinda) ahead.
 
Yet the FBI couldn't find anything and the stuff wikileaks put out as 'scandalous' was next to nothing.



It's not nothing, but in the grand scheme of things it isn't a huge deal at all. Certainly when weighted against the multitude of things the feckwit on the other side has been up to.

The whole thing stunk and worth baring in mind the reports that the FBI agents on the case wanted her prosecuted.

Maybe Bill played his part when he met with the attorney general for 30 minutes on the tarmac, just days before the decision was made public. Nothing dodgy about that, is there?
 
RE the creme de la crème, from the Apple encryption thread...

For people unfamiliar with how crooked the FBI has been in the past, I really recommend reading up on it. It's some eye-opener. There is no reason that they are not up to similar stuff now, or won't in the future, which is where I see the danger in giving in to them in this case.

http://theantimedia.org/10-most-crooked-corrupt-things-fbi-ever-done/
Don't be put off by the website name, plenty of collated links to mainstream media sources there

http://www.forbes.com/sites/harveys...fbi-a-racketeering-organization/#1a2acffa58be

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/j-edgar-hoover-begins-his-legacy-with-the-fbi

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO
.

These agents will have been the creme de la creme and 100% professional/independently minded.
 
It's not just that, but also the way he went from "the whole thing stinks" to "these guys are the crème de la crème" in two posts just because it suits.
 
Has taken some attention off the wikileaks mails released the last couple of days though. Think this is going to be a week with a lot of headaches. Still get odds above 4 for Trump. Where are credible reports that agents want to ''stick it to her''?
 
She really could do with some better outfits. With all apologies to Death Row Records.


It it were you, me, Martha Stewart, or most other Americans we'd be wearing orange jumpsuit type outfits. That's the double standard that appalls many of us. Nixon went down over Watergate (a far less involved cover up) because the press actually cared about doing it's job back then. But when 90% of the press is complicit in choosing the side that aligns with them politically, this is what happens. This is the worst choice of two candidates in my lifetime. I first voted in 1980. 300 million plus people and THIS is what we come up with? Embarrassing.
 
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