2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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I've noticed how Trump, even when he focuses on policies rather than attacking all and sundry, gives no detail about how he's going to carry out his various promises. For example:

How is he going to force Mexico to pay for the wall?
How is he going to force companies and corporations from shifting jobs abroad?
How is he simultaneously going to radically cut taxes whilst boosting defence spending, without borrowing even more money?

It's just a bunch of con-trick promises with nothing to back it up.

They know he's lying, but they simply don't care. The specifics don't matter, it's what they represent. An actual racist President is more important than an actual racist wall...

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/17/technology/donald-trump-deception/

For example, Trump has said that he'll build a wall across America and make Mexico pay. If that's bullshit, Trump doesn't need to care about the feasibility or what the true cost might be -- and neither do his supporters. What's important is the message of stopping illegal immigration. Or when Trump makes false claims about the trade deficit or the unemployment rate, the reality is less important than his supporters' sense that the economy is leaving them behind. When Trump says that crime is up and you'll get shot walking in urban centers, the reality is less important than his message of law and order.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/26/13016146/donald-trump-liar-media

Ultimately, though, the appeal of Trump’s rhetoric isn’t necessarily about what he would do at all. It’s about who he would do it for.

Trump’s policy proposals are arguably most coherent if you think of them in terms of choosing sides — and picking winners and losers. Winners: American citizens, particularly those who feel threatened by globalization and cultural change; the police; Russia. Losers: immigrants (particularly unauthorized ones); Mexico; China; Muslims; protesters; countries under the NATO umbrella; corporations that move abroad; the overpoliced.

What in particular Trump will do to help the people he favors and hurt those he dislikes is secondary to who comes first....

Trump’s critics tend to resist believing this. They tend to assume that because Trump is a businessman, and a Republican, he’ll govern with more concern for the needs of big business than for the people who got him to the White House. Or they assume that Trump is out only for himself (possibly true) and therefore will inevitably screw over his supporters (not necessarily true, because he may admire being loved). Trump’s critics know the man is a liar; why would he be honest with anyone?

But to many Trump supporters, it’s a zero-sum world out there. They believe in a "deep story" in which the politicians in charge now consistently put the needs of others — coastal elites, "welfare"-receiving African Americans, immigrants, and refugees — ahead of their own needs. They believe that Trump would turn the tables. And everything he says that upsets and provokes those people is more proof of how big a threat they find him.
 
Obama is bad? What's so bad about status quo, there's no war lately other than terrorist attack, economy is good considering where we are 8 years ago, geopolitics is quite stable at the moment, jobs are created.


Sometimes no changes is a good changes. Why change the good things. What would trump do? Cut taxes? Those taxes has to come from somewhere the medical bills ain't going to pay for themselves. Cutting corporate tax won't mean job, it'll mean the corporate are getting richer by bringing their taxable into the country while leaving the jobs back in china, and you're back to square one with a massive red on your book.

Clinton should be ok then? She's a status quo candidate as well
 
Breitbart (Steve Bannon) rolling out a new Bill Clinton rape accuser from 1980. Hillary's team say the families will not be shaking hands at the beginning tonight to avoid a potential embarrassing face to face / handshake moment between Bill and an old accuser or the like. Gloves are officially off. :)
 
They are in and around Russia as well, it just promotes tension and aggravation, leading to situations which could of been easily avoided. How many wars have China started or been in in the last 100 years in comparison to the USA?
If you know anything you would know the Chinese care little to nothing about the Japanese (a lot has to do with 731/100 in recent history). So why would they listen to another country (USA) which has little to do with them and they hold so much power over?

The DPRK are about as much of a nuclear threat as Iran was in the 70's till now (ergo not at all). All puff and no smoke. Again the only country to actually use nuclear weapons in an aggressive manner in war was the USA lol

Hillary CLinton stating that she wants to rename the Pacific Sea the American Sea is psychotic at best, what does that really accomplish but feed her own ego. People are worried about Trump getting in power, I'd be more worried about what Clinton will do, look at the situations in Libya and Syria she helped create and continues to endorse by taking money from said parties who endorse ISIL (Qatar and Suadi Arabia).

Personally if the US people had any sense they would call for an immediate halt to the elections, force the Clintons and Trump to feck off and get people in who a) don't have any hidden agendas and b) are not a fecking 80's business man playing grown up. Surely in all of America there is someone with common sense and integrity that is fit to run the country.

1. You need to follow what is going on more regarding Russia as they are the one country in Europe who are actively annexing other countries territories such as a part of Georgia and recently Crimea in Eastern Ukraine. This makes Russia an hostile and direct threat on Europes eastern border and need to be dealt with one way or another as you can´t allow Russia to be militarily aggressive without consequences. Its totally naive to think an Russia without an strong NATO presence nearby would be civilized towards their neighbours, they would likely try even harder to force old soviet states back into the fold. All empirical evidence shows Russia as the aggressors as they are the only country to expand their territory recently by force.

2. You need to study Chinese history and you will see how vicious and bloody the last 100 years have been in China though its been part Civil wars and internal struggle but also terrifying oppression over Tibet. Also i would advice you to read a bit about the Cultural revolution that Mao Zedong started which was absolute brutal towards political opponents and many others caught in it. Here is an standard article about some of it : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eed-to-know-about-chinas-political-convulsion

China and Japan have fought bloody wars in the last 100 years such as : https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jun/06/china-war-japan-rana-mitter-review this only "touch" the subject but can give an easy to read insight into some of the Chinese past. The animosity between Japan and China is still fairly big and mistrust is plenty even to this day so to say that China cares little about Japan is wrong as they see each other as rivals in Asia. China have only recently grown this powerful like in the last 30-40 years which is why they haven been very active militarily in international matters as of yet. If Chinas economic growth continues the next 20-30 years and they become an equal rival to U.S.A you can expect them to get into wars especially if U.S.As power wanes a lot they will try to assert their political and military power just as any powerful nation have in the past. The Persians did it, The Greeks did it, The Romans did it, The Mongolians did it etc if anything history shows powerful nations on the world stage more or less gets stuck in eventually and often. China aren´´t exactly known to be kind to its own people either ( Its massively corrupt and the courts are more or less just the government own people which means there is little to no separation between the Parliament - Government - Courts and this is not likely to change anytime soon with a 1 political party system.

This means we are dealing with an group of people that values power and have no intention of giving that up in any way, so its naive to think they would not get more aggressive in the future if they get a very strong military as they are not exactly the champions of peace and cooperation generally speaking. This is why the USA needs to be present in the region so peace can be kept. As problematic as it is with USA being the world police and they have done plenty wrong i agree but that dosn´t mean they aren't needed today to keep nations such as Russia and China in their place to avoid current conflicts to spiral out of control long term. If USA went pacifistic it would give Russia and China far more power in international politics and make no mistake if you look at how their general populations have it, it wont be pleasant for the world.

The DPRK are a big threat as they are still in war with South Korea today and have shown no signs of wanting permanent peace as they want to reunite the Korean countries again by force if necessary. The Ruling class of North Korea acts crazy generally speaking and expecting them to behave rationally is very dangerous as this can lead to devastating consequences if you don´t prepare for the worst possible action they could decide to take. It´s better to be safe than sorry in this case. That USA used nukes on Japan to force them to surrender have nothing to do with this discussion and is an whole other subject.

3. " Hillary CLinton stating that she wants to rename the Pacific Sea the American Sea is psychotic at best, what does that really accomplish but feed her own ego. People are worried about Trump getting in power, I'd be more worried about what Clinton will do, look at the situations in Libya and Syria she helped create and continues to endorse by taking money from said parties who endorse ISIL (Qatar and Suadi Arabia). "

Its the sea that lies next to the American eastern sea coast so it isn't totally illogical and i don´t see how this make Hillary psychotic ? i think your grasping at straws to be honest, if you want to criticize Hillary there are many other topics to do that with. You mention Libya but it is a political fact that it is the republicans who refused to finance extra security measures at the American Embassies : http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/ The republicans had refused to properly fund USA embassy security which means this issue is not just an Hillary issue but also the GOP for refusing to finance all needed measures. The Republicans have a very selective memory on this matter and even after like 8 hearings they could not find Hillary at fault for anything.

The Syrian civil war erupted after Assad forces opened fire on demonstrators and not because of U.S.A starting anything. You cant blame Hillary for starting this , but you criticize her policies regarding how to deal with it but it is a very complex issue were many factions and neighbouring countries sticks their nose in, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia and both are as appalling as each other when it comes to respecting human rights. Again you´re mistaken when you say she has taken money from the Saudi Arabia as you make it sound like its for personal use and this is a false statement. The Saudis donated to the Clinton foundation which isn´t a problem per say unless you an prove she does something in return for that donation. She cant use any of it for personal use so its hardly a bribe!. My personal opinion is it would have been better to reject this donation in matter of transparency but there are no proof of wrong doing here and if you have proof i would love to see them and not just groundless accusations from very dodgy sources like crazy conspiracy sites.

4. You can´t just stop elections just because you don´t like the candidates unless you have proof of wrong doing though as that would damaging the idea of free and independent elections. People on both sides have voted for both of em to be the nominees as crazy as it sounds that is what we have to choose between in this election. The people have spoken and this is the problem with representative democracy that it is rarely the most qualified that gets nominated but those with connections and money behind them instead or strong charisma/personality or an mix of these.
 
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What have we come to that the candidates can't even shake hands and treat each other with respect?

This country is fecked.
 
What have we come to that the candidates can't even shake hands and treat each other with respect?

This country is fecked.
The price to pay for Trump and his tactics. Dem demmycrats and repelicans just can't stomach the fact that we's got a candidate who speaks what we's all been thinking. Or some kind of shit like that.
 
Breitbart (Steve Bannon) rolling out a new Bill Clinton rape accuser from 1980. Hillary's team say the families will not be shaking hands at the beginning tonight to avoid a potential embarrassing face to face / handshake moment between Bill and an old accuser or the like. Gloves are officially off. :)

Trump's guest is a woman whose son was killed in Benghazi and calls Hilary a murderer and wants to put her in prison. Charming.
 
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I keep reading that Trump is going hard after Clinton because of the Wikileaks info and of course threatening to put her in jail, but shouldn't all the information from Wikileaks be inadmissible anyway since it was illegally obtained. I suppose I should never expect Trump to take the high ground but the media seem to gloss over this fact as well.
This is what I was referring to yesterday.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...-advantage-of-wikileaks/ar-AAj8WBu?li=BBnb7Kz
I'm no fan of Rubio, but he is the first Republican (that I've noticed anyway) to say we shouldn't be using this stuff because it was illegally obtained from a private source in the first place. People using this stuff are actually promoting criminal enterprise.
 
Stab In Back Part 50 - Kellyanne's Move
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-voter-fraud-kellyanne-conway-229984#ixzz4NXsgD2Wr
Trump campaign manager: 'I do not believe' there will be widespread voter fraud
Donald Trump’s campaign manager said Wednesday that she did not think the election will be rigged, though she argued that there’s “a larger conspiracy” working against her candidate.

“No, I do not believe that,” Kellyanne Conway said on MSNBC when asked whether she believes there will be widespread voter fraud in the election. “So absent overwhelming evidence that there is, it would not be for me to say that there is.”

Even so, she echoed her candidate’s message that deceased voters are still on the rolls, an argument Trump used Monday in Wisconsin to bolster his claim that the election is rigged.

“We know that people who are dead are still on the voter rolls. We know that people are voting a couple of different times in places,” Conway said. “So you do hear reports here and there, but I think Donald Trump’s point is a larger one. You don’t want him to talk about the other stuff, but he does — you know, there is a larger conspiracy, larger collusion.”

Trump, she added, is drawing his conclusions about a "rigged" election from conservative news media.
 
Arizona looking good for Clinton. And that's why the media are dishonest. Because they're portraying this as being very close when in reality it's not even sort of close (AZ going blue for the first time since Bill Clinton, and reports of polls getting closer in other typically Rep states).

There are at least three swing states he needs to win in order to have a chance, and he's only sort of close in one of those (Iowa).
 
1. You need to follow what is going on more regarding Russia as they are the one country in Europe who are actively annexing other countries territories such as a part of Georgia and recently Crimea in Eastern Ukraine. This makes Russia an hostile and direct threat on Europes eastern border and need to be dealt with one way or another as you can´t allow Russia to be militarily aggressive without consequences. Its totally naive to think an Russia without an strong NATO presence nearby would be civilized towards their neighbours, they would likely try even harder to force old soviet states back into the fold. All empirical evidence shows Russia as the aggressors as they are the only country to expand their territory recently by force.

2. You need to study Chinese history and you will see how vicious and bloody the last 100 years have been in China though its been part Civil wars and internal struggle but also terrifying oppression over Tibet. Also i would advice you to read a bit about the Cultural revolution that Mao Zedong started which was absolute brutal towards political opponents and many others caught in it. Here is an standard article about some of it : https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eed-to-know-about-chinas-political-convulsion

China and Japan have fought bloody wars in the last 100 years such as : https://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jun/06/china-war-japan-rana-mitter-review this only "touch" the subject but can give an easy to read insight into some of the Chinese past. The animosity between Japan and China is still fairly big and mistrust is plenty even to this day so to say that China cares little about Japan is wrong as they see each other as rivals in Asia. China have only recently grown this powerful like in the last 30-40 years which is why they haven been very active militarily in internal matters as of yet. If Chinas economic growth continues the next 20-30 years and they become an equal rival to U.S.A you can expect them to get into wars especially if U.S.As power wanes a lot they will try to assert their political and military power just as any powerful nation have in the past. The Persians did it, The Greeks did it, The Romans did it, The Mongolians did it etc if anything history shows powerful nations on the world stage more or less gets stuck in eventually and often. China aren´´t exactly known to be kind to its own people either ( Its massively corrupt and the courts are more or less just the government own people which means there is little to no separation between the Parliament - Government - Courts and this is not likely to change anytime soon with a 1 political party system.

This means we are dealing with an group of people that values power and have no intention of giving that up in any way, so its naive to think they would not get more aggressive in the future if they get a very strong military as they are not exactly the champions of peace and cooperation generally speaking. This is why the USA needs to be present in the region so peace can be kept. As problematic as it is with USA being the world police and they have done plenty wrong i agree but that dosn´t mean they aren't needed today to keep nations such as Russia and China in their place to avoid current conflicts to spiral out of control long term. If USA went pacifistic it would give Russia and China far more power in international politics and make no mistake if you look at how their general populations have it, it wont be pleasant for the world.

The DPRK are a big threat as they are still in war with South Korea today and have shown no signs of wanting permanent peace as they want to reunite the Korean countries again by force if necessary. The Ruling class of North Korea acts crazy generally speaking and expecting them to behave rationally is very dangerous as this can lead to devastating consequences if you don´t prepare for the worst possible action they could decide to take. It´s better to be safe than sorry in this case. That USA used nukes on Japan to force them to surrender have nothing to do with this discussion and is an whole other subject.

3. " Hillary CLinton stating that she wants to rename the Pacific Sea the American Sea is psychotic at best, what does that really accomplish but feed her own ego. People are worried about Trump getting in power, I'd be more worried about what Clinton will do, look at the situations in Libya and Syria she helped create and continues to endorse by taking money from said parties who endorse ISIL (Qatar and Suadi Arabia). "

Its the sea that lies next to the American eastern sea coast so it isn't totally illogical and i don´t see how this make Hillary psychotic ? i think your grasping at straws to be honest, if you want to criticize Hillary there are many other topics to do that with. You mention Libya but it is a political fact that it is the republicans who refused to finance extra security measures at the American Embassies : http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/fact-check-benghazi-security/ The republicans had refused to properly fund USA embassy security which means this issue is not just an Hillary issue but also the GOP for refusing to finance all needed measures. The Republicans have a very selective memory on this matter and even after like 8 hearings they could not find Hillary at fault for anything.

The Syrian civil war erupted after Assad forces opened fire on demonstrators and not because of U.S.A starting anything. You cant blame Hillary for starting this , but you criticize her policies regarding how to deal with it but it is a very complex issue were many factions and neighbouring countries sticks their nose in, such as Iran and Saudi Arabia and both are as appalling as each other when it comes to respecting human rights. Again you´re mistaken when you say she has taken money from the Saudi Arabia as you make it sound like its for personal use and this is a false statement. The Saudis donated to the Clinton foundation which isn´t a problem per say unless you an prove she does something in return for that donation. She cant use any of it for personal use so its hardly a bribe!. My personal opinion is it would have been better to reject this donation in matter of transparency but there are no proof of wrong doing here and if you have proof i would love to see them and not just groundless accusations from very dodgy sources like crazy conspiracy sites.

4. You can´t just stop elections just because you don´t like the candidates unless you have proof of wrong doing though as that would damaging the idea of free and independent elections. People on both sides have voted for both of em to be the nominees as crazy as it sounds that is what we have to choose between in this election. The people have spoken and this is the problem with representative democracy that it is rarely the most qualified that gets nominated but those with connections and money behind them instead or strong charisma/personality or an mix of these.

Great post. Welcome to the mains.
 
@Red Viking

I agree with you completely on 3/4 points, but not on China.

Recent Chinese history is one mainly of internal conflict. The wars with Japan were as a result of Japanese imperialist expansionist policy. Japan were the aggressors (twice). Also, the US will be present in the region for a long time, but it has little to do with keeping peace, and everything to do with expanding power. It also becomes problematic when the Japanese population overwhelmingly want the US to withdraw its bases on Japanese soil, yet the US refuses. Also, The DPRK really aren't a threat at all. They haven't got the capacity to threaten either the US or China (although, in any doomsday scenario, they are definitely more of a threat to China).

Also, slightly disagree on Russia. They did annex land, but you can't see that in a vacuum. It was against international law, but then again, if those standards are applied, a lot of Western countries don't look so good. Also, NATO is obsolete, or should be. Its presence is an irritant, not a panacea.
 
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Stab In Back Part 50 - Kellyanne's Move
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-voter-fraud-kellyanne-conway-229984#ixzz4NXsgD2Wr
Trump campaign manager: 'I do not believe' there will be widespread voter fraud

She also said: "I think Donald Trump’s point is a larger one, ... She has so many advantages, .... “She has endless money, she has a lot of the media. She has a very popular president and first lady out there campaigning for her."

So now her claim is that "rigged" means that the Democrats are simply better at campaigning and are more popular. Well, and I hate to tell her, this is simply what electoral politics are all about.
 
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