2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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So let's ignore the obvious instability of the other candidate, a man who would attack another nation over hand gestures or his cavalier attitude towards nuclear arms. This country has a government within a government and a lot of financial interests in play. Elections don't solve these programs and I don't pretend to know the answers but I refuse to believe that the election of the trump family would be better then Hillary.

Again, you must have missed some of the debate. Trump made it fairly clear that he takes the use of nuclear arms quite seriously. "You're done" or something to that effect were his words on that.

He may be overreacting re Iran's actions in the Persian Gulf, but there is some history of goading and antagonism there in what are international waters but a Gulf of Tonkin incident is probably unlikely.

If you're going to mention the Trump family you should make some kind of reference to Billary etc in the spirit of fairness.
 

Not interjecting myself in your exchange, just going to point out though, Reagan and W were both indifferent to official duties, and we all know their records.

Banking on Drumpf to be a less destructive president because he's ignorant and lazy is not the soundest of strategy. His VP pick is the archetypal GOP interventionist/religious nutcase/trickle down acolyte.
 
Because he's got no clue?

Foreign Affairs - Putin love, Mexican Wall, Chinese Ban plus insults to other foreign leaders will make US a laughing stock in global forums.

War on Terror - I've no idea what or how he plans to deal. In all probability he'll antagonise American Muslims and make it worse.

Fiscal Policy - right out of a fairy tale. Reducing deficit, reducing taxes, increasing military.... All by waving his magic wand. What he's proposed has been backtracked or panned.

Racism / Anti Minority plus opposition to Gun Control is another disaster waiting to happen.

I can't think of a single area which he can't ruin further.

Maybe destroy is too strong a word, but he'll set advancement back decades.

Pretty sure the US is on the back foot as far as foreign affairs goes. The decline has been going on for a while. They have no credibility or at least waning credibility. And most of the US appears to be owned by Chinese money.

The war on terror is a salient point but he does show some foresight by not broadcasting his plans.

Any fiscal policy will be a winner in the US when that country isn't sinking a billion dollars a day into an unjust war in Iraq and other middle eastern "adventures".

I'd argue that the racism more akin to xenophobia, not much better mind, but I get the feeling that Trump only cares if you're American, but your religious affiliation could be a factor.

He's not going to loosen gun control and agreed with Clinton on stopping sales to people on watch and no fly lists.

There's plenty to scrutinize with Trump but the hyperbole from some corners is a bit much.
 
He didn't attack her on her big mistakes. Attack her on that and he would have come out of the debate looking strong.

He didn't attack her enough on voting for the Iraq War as a senator. The Iraq War killed 4500 US soldiers and cost them approx $1.7 trillion and they have nothing to show for it. That money could have been used domestically.

He didn't attack her for her foreign policy mistakes. She said she looks to Henry Kissinger, one of the most vile persons in the world, for foreign policy advice. She has supported regime change in countries like Honduras as Sec of State, decisions which were just baffling. He didn't attack her at all on Benghazi, which he's been doing while campaigning.

He didn't attack her for receiving money from Saudi Arabia and other Middle Eastern countries for her foundation. Saudi is basically supporting terrorists in Syria, something which started when she was SoS.

He didn't attack her enough on the emails. He was expected to hammer her with it. He also didn't attack her on her comments about the West Virginia miners. She says she's serious about fighting climate change, yet she takes money from the fossil fuel industry. She's also stopped talking about climate change after being endorsed by Bernie. Trump doesn't believe in climate change at all though.

He didn't attack her for giving paid speeches to Goldman Sachs for millions of dollars, a company which was one of the leading causes of the sub prime mortgage crises, which resulted in millions of people losing jobs in the US and all over the world. He didn't attack her for all her connections to lobbyists and special interest groups which she is a stooge for.

He didn't attack her on her 'super predator' comments as first lady. He didn't attack her on her flip flopping on social issues like same sex marriage, though it's understandable as he's running as a republican (lol).

He didn't attack her enough for her ties to Debbie Wasserman and the nasty things said in the DNC emails and how the primaries were rigged to give her the upper hand.

He is a very poor speaker and seems to lack brains. Can't believe it's come down to Trump and Hillary. Very poor uninspiring candidates. Elizabeth Warren would have been a joy to watch debate.
There's so much fodder, for both candidates to hit the other on, that it could have been great, but it wasn't.
 
Can I just say these long posts are a killer? HTCs predictive text function has got to be the worst in the world of smartphones.
 
Biden was the ideal candidate.

I never understood this...he was destroyed by Obama, Clinton, and Edwards in 2008. His record is not as easily picked apart as Clinton's but there are still plenty of dodgy votes (starting with Iraq), he isn't young, his entire appeal would be completely dependent on external events (since he = Obama whose approval is determined by outside factors), and I don't see him wining a second term (he would be up against 3 terms of anti-incumbency)
 
I never understood this...he was destroyed by Obama, Clinton, and Edwards in 2008. His record is not as easily picked apart as Clinton's but there are still plenty of dodgy votes (starting with Iraq), he isn't young, his entire appeal would be completely dependent on external events (since he = Obama whose approval is determined by outside factors), and I don't see him wining a second term (he would be up against 3 terms of anti-incumbency)
I think that a lot part of Biden-phoria comes from him totally destroying Paul Ryan in that TV debate.
 
Nah, default non Clinton non Drumpf, with a realistic chance to win. Thats all there is.

He's a terrible campaigner.

Edit: you can read up on this if you want.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Biden_presidential_campaign,_1988
It doesn't mean anything how poor he was 30 years ago. He has been 25 years in senate or so, and 8 years as VP. He showed that he is good at it in VP debate 8 years ago, but against Trump might have been different cause facts don't matter much (IIRC, he destroyed Ryan by using facts that he really knew while Ryan was relatively new in politics).
 
6526ebf0df6ebf1359fafe21c3a0a080862c273ada944c6b0ea0d104b217e76f_medium
:lol::lol::lol: This is why we love you.
 
Pretty sure the US is on the back foot as far as foreign affairs goes. The decline has been going on for a while. They have no credibility or at least waning credibility. And most of the US appears to be owned by Chinese money.

The war on terror is a salient point but he does show some foresight by not broadcasting his plans.

Any fiscal policy will be a winner in the US when that country isn't sinking a billion dollars a day into an unjust war in Iraq and other middle eastern "adventures".

I'd argue that the racism more akin to xenophobia, not much better mind, but I get the feeling that Trump only cares if you're American, but your religious affiliation could be a factor.

He's not going to loosen gun control and agreed with Clinton on stopping sales to people on watch and no fly lists.

There's plenty to scrutinize with Trump but the hyperbole from some corners is a bit much.

Pretty sure the reason for losing credibility is a certain republican President throwing all of it out of the window. He was known as a bit uninformed on certain matters as well.
 
I never understood this...he was destroyed by Obama, Clinton, and Edwards in 2008. His record is not as easily picked apart as Clinton's but there are still plenty of dodgy votes (starting with Iraq), he isn't young, his entire appeal would be completely dependent on external events (since he = Obama whose approval is determined by outside factors), and I don't see him wining a second term (he would be up against 3 terms of anti-incumbency)
Still a lot less controversy than Hillary , IMO.
 
He's an arrogant boor, probably a cokehead, but how is he going to destroy the US? If he avoids and stupid foreign adventures it will be the best thing that's happened to America in decades.

Where do we start with this one? I try and provide a concise list of bullet points.

Domestic destruction

- Race Relations. Trump is a documented racist. He’s been caught on the record, multiple times saying ignorant, disparaging or discriminating comments about ethnic minorities. Race relations is one of the greatest social problems facing America today, and is closely correlated with law and order issues. Just the election of this man would set back race relations decades, and that’s without mentioning him pursuing divisive and controversial policies like Stop and Frisk, and The Great Wall of Mexico. None of this touches on his comments about the Muslim community, which will just serve as a recruiting tool for domestic and overseas radicals.

- Economic turmoil. Running a business and running government are two completely different things. For a start governments should be run for the people, not for profit. This is even generous to Trump, who has declared bankruptcy six times. Trump’s economic plan has been almost universally panned and ridiculed by independent and partisan economic experts. His simultaneous proposition to drastically cut taxes and increase spending (particularly on the military) simply doesn’t jive with basic economic reality. He talks about the reshoring of outsourced manufacturing jobs, but doesn’t ever present a viable plan for doing that. He actively eschews investment into growth industries such a renewable energy.

- Income disparity. America already has the widest income gap in the developed world. Trump’s America would increase the tax burden on the lower and middle classes, and make the rich even richer. He is running a fiscal policy aimed at benefitting him and his friends. The people who suffer in such a scenario are the bottom 60-70%, meanwhile investment into critical social services would dry up, thus creating further social and economic equality.

- A corporate bonanza. There’s no doubting that America is already a corporate wonderland, but under Trump it would become a fat cat paradise. Not only would one see a huge reduction in corporation tax, presumably a protection or widening of IRS loopholes for those “smart” enough not to pay federal income tax, but we’d also see an even greater push towards private industry running social programs. Thus taking value out of the system (in the form of profit) and skewing critical decision making; such as what we see rife throughout the criminal justice system already.

- Gun Control. Under Trump there’d be no progressive gun control legislation, and logically the type of candidate who would suggest that 2nd amendments supporters assassinate his opponent, is not the type of guy to quell gun related violence in the country – which is already at alarming levels. This is a man endorsed by the NRA.

Foreign Affairs

- International coalitions. Even America will struggle to act unilaterally on a global scale. Yet Trump has come right out of the gate questioning some of the most important strategic relationships in the country’s history. And not only that, he’s done it in an offensive, and frankly ignorant way. This is alarming to world leaders, and will ultimately leave the US isolated on foreign policy issues. This only makes the world a more dangerous place.

- From Russia with Love. One of the best quotes I’ve seen was a commentator asking how Donald was going to finish putting his foot in his mouth, now he is too busy blowing Vladamir Putin. I’m not sure what game he is playing here, but it serves little value towards America’s strategic and security goals.

- War on Terror. Trump has made huge claims about not going into Iraq (even though he supported it), taking the oil (which is just imperialism and only going to inflame tensions further), and saving money by not being involved in overseas conflicts. Yet in the same breath he has he’ll wipe out ISIS (presumably at considerable military expenditure), and talked about starting a war with Iran. The man contradicts himself from one moment to the next, has no cross cultural competencies, and simply does not possess the sensibilities to address the root causes of terrorism or the finer points of international diplomacy.

- International Trade. Overnight, the Donald seems to have become an expert on trade. Slamming NAFTA, and decrying the tariffs placed on US goods entering Mexico. ‘Why oh why?’ he asks, do Mexican goods enter without tariffs, and US goods don’t have the same system. Well, firstly, I think the economic performance of the United States somewhat dwarfs that of Mexico, both per capita and gross, so the US is hardly suffering under NAFTA; secondly, he is forgetting about the power of market forces. This is usually a staple of republican candidates – allowing the market to determine prices; and in the case of outsourced manufacturing, it is quite simply there because of the demand for cheap consumer products. While this may have a deleterious effect on the manufacturing sector, it has a positive effective on retail and services, general consumption, and cost of living. Basic economics. People cry about losing jobs, but when the products start getting made in the US again, and the price of consumer products doubles, perspective will change. – US companies, at most, are only going to reshore strategically vital assets, such as IP.

This is just shit off the top of my head. I haven’t even gone into myriad other issues that one could raise. Asking the question, “How could Trump destroy America?” and expecting an exacting list of specifics, is a bit like asking ‘Why shouldn’t monkeys perform intra-abdominal surgeries?’. I can give you a list of reasonable arguments based on observed evidence as to why the patient would die; but I couldn’t possibly provide an exhaustive list of all the ways in which they could feck it up. The same goes for Donald Trump. In fact, I’d probably take my chances with the monkey.
 
WTF? Like really? He will spend half his time on his debates talking about how much he loves ice cream.

Biden is great, but as a running mate or supporter. Not as the main candidate. He's got some genuine passion, and just seems like a good guy. I like him a lot. But I agree that over the course of a campaign, he wouldn't work at all.
 
Boy Romney chose the wrong year to run. He would have had a better shot this time me thinks, especially if it was between him and Hillary. It would have been a no contest. I think he would have beaten Trump as well.
 
Seems we have are finally on the home stretch of resolving the Trump tax return issue - he hasn't paid taxes and his TV stooges are having to tap dance around it without lying. This is cringeworthy to watch....

 
Boy Romney chose the wrong year to run. He would have had a better shot this time me thinks, especially if it was between him and Hillary. It would have been a no contest. I think he would have beaten Trump as well.

I don't think any mainstream Republican would have beaten Trump this year. Paul Ryan did the smart thing by not even entertaining the thought and that's a man who knows his timing. Biden on the other hand would have wrapped up this election a month or so ago and cock slapped Donnie in the debates for fun like he did with Ryan in 2012.
 
I don't think any mainstream Republican would have beaten Trump this year. Paul Ryan did the smart thing by not even entertaining the thought and that's a man who knows his timing. Biden on the other hand would have wrapped up this election a month or so ago and cock slapped Donnie in the debates for fun like he did with Ryan in 2012.
I disagree. The rest of choices they had were so fecking dire in Cruz, Rubio and Casich. Romney is actually a smart guy unlike the others I have mentioned. All the big gun Republicans arent even endorsing their candidate. The speaker even refused and still is only half hearted in supporting Trump. When was the last time this many prominent people from a party didnt support their own candidate so openly? The Republicans would have been all over Romney by now. They are desperate to win. They have no other choice. Thats why they are biting their teeth and endorsing him. Some more willing than others. They arent going to support a Democrat. They know how bad Trump is but like I said they are desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

And Biden wouldnt have done shit so far. Bernie on the other hand would have wrapped things up by the time the conventions rolled along if he was the chosen candidate. Its only because its Hillary that this even is a contest.
 
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I disagree. The rest of choices they had were so fecking dire in Cruz, Rubio and Casich. Romney is actually a smart guy unlike the others I have mentioned. All the big gun Republicans arent even endorsing their candidate. The speaker even refused and still is only half hearted in supporting Trump. When was the last time this many prominent people from a party didnt support their own candidate so openly? The Republicans would have been all over Romney by now. They are desperate to win. They have no other choice. Thats why they are biting their teeth and endorsing him. Some more willing than others. They arent going to support a Democrat. They know how bad Trump is but like I said they are desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

And Biden wouldnt have done shit so far. Bernie on the other hand would have wrapped things up by the time the conventions rolled along if he was the chosen candidate. Its only because its Hillary that this even is a contest.
This is wishful thinking.
 
I disagree. The rest of choices they had were so fecking dire in Cruz, Rubio and Casich. Romney is actually a smart guy unlike the others I have mentioned. All the big gun Republicans arent even endorsing their candidate. The speaker even refused and still is only half hearted in supporting Trump. When was the last time this many prominent people from a party didnt support their own candidate so openly? The Republicans would have been all over Romney by now. They are desperate to win. They have no other choice. They arent going to support a Democrat. They know how bad Trump but like I said they are desperate and desperate people do desperate things.

There were two things at play against Romney, right from the onset of pre-campaigning period.

1. Romney might not have anticipated Trump but he did see Jeb raise record amounts of money towards launching his campaign very early and establish himself as the darling of the major old money conservative donors. So he basically knew even if he threw his hat in the race, he is starting from the back foot in terms of financial backing. Could he have self funded his campaign? Yes, but that's a lot of money to throw into competing in a race where his odds were not very good.

2. I think sometimes organizations tend to get bent out of shape before recalibrating themselves to the median and that's what's happened with the GOP.

They had been trending towards extreme partisanship and christian conservatism for a while and they needed to get the experience of playing far right politics on the main stage out of their system before regaining their senses and going back to their bread and butter, which is economic conservatism, small government ideology etc while leaving the bullshit social agenda and quasi racism aside.

The republicans could have all gotten behind one of Graham, Bush, Rubio or Kasich if any of them were trending positively in the polls but that basically never happened. At that point it became clear that no matter who they did or did not endorse, the nomination was going to Trump so there was no use speaking up in futility.

I still think someone like Ryan runs in 2020 in a much less crowded field with complete backing from major Republican donors and wins the election.
 
I said exactly why it is, because of her body language. It's not an argument either, it's an observation.

Weird that you'd jump straight to accusing me of being sexist.

I didnt, I just find the whole lumping her in the same pot as Trump lazy and stupid to be blunt. She is far from perfect but compared to him shes Abe Lincoln.
 
Again, you must have missed some of the debate. Trump made it fairly clear that he takes the use of nuclear arms quite seriously. "You're done" or something to that effect were his words on that.

He may be overreacting re Iran's actions in the Persian Gulf, but there is some history of goading and antagonism there in what are international waters but a Gulf of Tonkin incident is probably unlikely.

If you're going to mention the Trump family you should make some kind of reference to Billary etc in the spirit of fairness.
And that is the problem right there.
 
Pretty sure the US is on the back foot as far as foreign affairs goes. The decline has been going on for a while. They have no credibility or at least waning credibility. And most of the US appears to be owned by Chinese money.

The war on terror is a salient point but he does show some foresight by not broadcasting his plans.

Any fiscal policy will be a winner in the US when that country isn't sinking a billion dollars a day into an unjust war in Iraq and other middle eastern "adventures".

I'd argue that the racism more akin to xenophobia, not much better mind, but I get the feeling that Trump only cares if you're American, but your religious affiliation could be a factor.

He's not going to loosen gun control and agreed with Clinton on stopping sales to people on watch and no fly lists.

There's plenty to scrutinize with Trump but the hyperbole from some corners is a bit much.

:lol: At the Canadian who wants the US to crash and burn
 
Where do we start with this one? I try and provide a concise list of bullet points.

Domestic destruction

- Race Relations. Trump is a documented racist. He’s been caught on the record, multiple times saying ignorant, disparaging or discriminating comments about ethnic minorities. Race relations is one of the greatest social problems facing America today, and is closely correlated with law and order issues. Just the election of this man would set back race relations decades, and that’s without mentioning him pursuing divisive and controversial policies like Stop and Frisk, and The Great Wall of Mexico. None of this touches on his comments about the Muslim community, which will just serve as a recruiting tool for domestic and overseas radicals.

- Economic turmoil. Running a business and running government are two completely different things. For a start governments should be run for the people, not for profit. This is even generous to Trump, who has declared bankruptcy six times. Trump’s economic plan has been almost universally panned and ridiculed by independent and partisan economic experts. His simultaneous proposition to drastically cut taxes and increase spending (particularly on the military) simply doesn’t jive with basic economic reality. He talks about the reshoring of outsourced manufacturing jobs, but doesn’t ever present a viable plan for doing that. He actively eschews investment into growth industries such a renewable energy.

- Income disparity. America already has the widest income gap in the developed world. Trump’s America would increase the tax burden on the lower and middle classes, and make the rich even richer. He is running a fiscal policy aimed at benefitting him and his friends. The people who suffer in such a scenario are the bottom 60-70%, meanwhile investment into critical social services would dry up, thus creating further social and economic equality.

- A corporate bonanza. There’s no doubting that America is already a corporate wonderland, but under Trump it would become a fat cat paradise. Not only would one see a huge reduction in corporation tax, presumably a protection or widening of IRS loopholes for those “smart” enough not to pay federal income tax, but we’d also see an even greater push towards private industry running social programs. Thus taking value out of the system (in the form of profit) and skewing critical decision making; such as what we see rife throughout the criminal justice system already.

- Gun Control. Under Trump there’d be no progressive gun control legislation, and logically the type of candidate who would suggest that 2nd amendments supporters assassinate his opponent, is not the type of guy to quell gun related violence in the country – which is already at alarming levels. This is a man endorsed by the NRA.

Foreign Affairs

- International coalitions. Even America will struggle to act unilaterally on a global scale. Yet Trump has come right out of the gate questioning some of the most important strategic relationships in the country’s history. And not only that, he’s done it in an offensive, and frankly ignorant way. This is alarming to world leaders, and will ultimately leave the US isolated on foreign policy issues. This only makes the world a more dangerous place.

- From Russia with Love. One of the best quotes I’ve seen was a commentator asking how Donald was going to finish putting his foot in his mouth, now he is too busy blowing Vladamir Putin. I’m not sure what game he is playing here, but it serves little value towards America’s strategic and security goals.

- War on Terror. Trump has made huge claims about not going into Iraq (even though he supported it), taking the oil (which is just imperialism and only going to inflame tensions further), and saving money by not being involved in overseas conflicts. Yet in the same breath he has he’ll wipe out ISIS (presumably at considerable military expenditure), and talked about starting a war with Iran. The man contradicts himself from one moment to the next, has no cross cultural competencies, and simply does not possess the sensibilities to address the root causes of terrorism or the finer points of international diplomacy.

- International Trade. Overnight, the Donald seems to have become an expert on trade. Slamming NAFTA, and decrying the tariffs placed on US goods entering Mexico. ‘Why oh why?’ he asks, do Mexican goods enter without tariffs, and US goods don’t have the same system. Well, firstly, I think the economic performance of the United States somewhat dwarfs that of Mexico, both per capita and gross, so the US is hardly suffering under NAFTA; secondly, he is forgetting about the power of market forces. This is usually a staple of republican candidates – allowing the market to determine prices; and in the case of outsourced manufacturing, it is quite simply there because of the demand for cheap consumer products. While this may have a deleterious effect on the manufacturing sector, it has a positive effective on retail and services, general consumption, and cost of living. Basic economics. People cry about losing jobs, but when the products start getting made in the US again, and the price of consumer products doubles, perspective will change. – US companies, at most, are only going to reshore strategically vital assets, such as IP.

This is just shit off the top of my head. I haven’t even gone into myriad other issues that one could raise. Asking the question, “How could Trump destroy America?” and expecting an exacting list of specifics, is a bit like asking ‘Why shouldn’t monkeys perform intra-abdominal surgeries?’. I can give you a list of reasonable arguments based on observed evidence as to why the patient would die; but I couldn’t possibly provide an exhaustive list of all the ways in which they could feck it up. The same goes for Donald Trump. In fact, I’d probably take my chances with the monkey.

So...firstly, I don't recall requesting a list of specifics, just something more than chicken little-esque 'the sky is falling!' vagaries that most posters are spouting. Well done, you've at least gone into some detail, which is a step beyond many contributions in this thread.
 
So...firstly, I don't recall requesting a list of specifics, just something more than chicken little-esque 'the sky is falling!' vagaries that most posters are spouting. Well done, you've at least gone into some detail, which is a step beyond many contributions in this thread.

To be fair, I think we've all gone through exasperated months of explaining at length and in great detail the likes of what he's said and it'd be shown by going back a few hundred pages in this thread. I think we're all worn out at this stage :D
 
To be fair, I think we've all gone through exasperated months of explaining at length and in great detail the likes of what he's said and it'd be shown by going back a few hundred pages in this thread. I think we're all worn out at this stage :D

Have to disagree. The hyperbole was exceptional and Trump nullified a lot of those opinions last night.
 
Both candidates are so poor. Romney would have probably wiped the floor with Hillary.

John Oliver's take on the election should be good. Just saw Trevor Noah's and it was pretty mediocre. I don't know if it's the delivery or writing, but I've never been impressed with him. Jon Stewart would have absolutely ripped Trump apart this election cycle.

Seth Myers video was pretty good.

I agree with you, Trevor Noah's wasn't that funny
 
They just seem so old, both of them. It's not like I'm a teenager myself, I'm old enough to know. They're too old. Really, really, old.

It does seem kind of strange that no one bats on eyelid at people in their late 60s - beyond retirement aye, taking on a very stressful job that will last them 4-8 years.
 
Pretty sure the US is on the back foot as far as foreign affairs goes. The decline has been going on for a while. They have no credibility or at least waning credibility. And most of the US appears to be owned by Chinese money.

The war on terror is a salient point but he does show some foresight by not broadcasting his plans.

Any fiscal policy will be a winner in the US when that country isn't sinking a billion dollars a day into an unjust war in Iraq and other middle eastern "adventures".

I'd argue that the racism more akin to xenophobia, not much better mind, but I get the feeling that Trump only cares if you're American, but your religious affiliation could be a factor.

He's not going to loosen gun control and agreed with Clinton on stopping sales to people on watch and no fly lists.

There's plenty to scrutinize with Trump but the hyperbole from some corners is a bit much.

Foresight? Come on. He has no plans. He's clearly full of shit about pretty much everything. Repeatedly flip-flopping, dodging direct questions or flat out lying. He's a bluffer and a bullshitter. Beggars belief that anyone could perceives his refusal/inability to give specifics about his policies on a whole host of important issues as any kind of cunning strategy to conceal them from "the enemy". Read the verbatim answers he gave last night. Look at his opinion on cyber-terrorism for starters. He blatantly didn't even know what it was!
 
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