2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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berbatrick said:
The DNC seemed to point at that kind of strategy...their biggest policy statements seemed to be "I have policies unlike Trump". Only Warren and Bernie spoke about specifics.
The crowd-pleasers: the Obamas and Bill Clinton were all about personality.
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I kinda hope it's a feint though, surely policy is the way to show him up? It could be possible that Hillary is a better debater than the Republican frontrunners and succeed in riling him where others couldn't, but it seems hella risky to me.
 
The Firestarter said:
There is no point talking policy when you can show your opponent is unfit to serve, and truly dangerous if elected. Policy talks are for when both of the candidates are at least averagely intelligent and not total imbeciles.
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WashPo poll this morning says that 8/10 voters will watch this first debate. Get it wrong by choosing the wrong option in the Personality vs Policy option could be disastrous.
 
Carolina Red said:
Judging by the number of people supporting Trump, far too many Americans apparently do not want to hear about policy, or do not have the attention span/mental capacity to understand it.
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Equally then, would they actually be put off by a Trump outburst? I would just feel that showing the floating voters you're more capable would be a better strategy. Hope this doesn't go down as a massive error.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
WashPo poll this morning says that 8/10 voters will watch this first debate. Get it wrong by choosing the wrong option in the Personality vs Policy option could be disastrous.
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Judging by what her bad weekend did to her poll numbers, I think her focus should be that she appears energetic, stands up to him, and let him make fool of himself. It is all about perception.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Equally then, would they actually be put off by a Trump outburst? I would just feel that showing the floating voters you're more capable would be a better strategy. Hope this doesn't go down as a massive error.
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If they are going down that route, they are betting on winning over voters who are not too interested in policy, but are barely over the line towards Trump because they see Clinton as untrustworthy. If they can paint Trump as the truly untrustworthy/dangerous/unfit one, then they can get them back to their side or at least back out of voting Trump in favor of a 3rd party.
 
I'd imagine this will be tricky for both of them. He has to walk the tightrope of not appearing to be sexist or condescending, otherwise it will turn off any remaining undecideds - whilst still coming across as entertaining. She has to avoid mud wrestling with him in terms of insults, as that will basically demean her down to his level and she will wind up looking like Rubio and Cruz did when they attempted to take him on head to head. If I were Hillary I would keep it professional and drown him with policy substance and specifics which will imo highlight the lack of detail in his own proposals. Insulting her or saying everything will be terrific if he's elected will not work in this setting.
 
No idea which is the best way of debating Trump, but two occasions that come to mind which made him look diminished were the Obama correspondents dinner speech, and when Rubio pressed him on detail of his healthcare policy during one of the debates, which was possibly the only time I've seen Trump actually panic.

Clinton can't let it become a debate of equals, because the best argument against Trump is that he's incapable of being President and that needs to be constantly highlighted. But "equals" there applies just as much to throwing insults constantly in a manner that he would do, as it does to making him appear like an ordinary GOP candidate.
 
Best case scenario tomorrow is Drumpf sort of loses the debate and in the process feels the moderator was "unfair", then threatens to skip the remaining debates. His campaign will implode in due course at a time when it needs to stabilize if that happens.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Hillary is going to go after Trump on his personality rather than focussing on policy, reportedly :nervous:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...plans-to-get-under-donald-trumps-skin-in-mon/
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I hope, that this is her strategy. If she starts to talk about policies, she´d just presents them by using empty talking points that are extremely unpopular. Additionally she is lacking any credibility (trade, economy, wall street yadayada + general flip-flopping) or is easily connected to bad decisions (FP). That just opens her up for easy criticism and would emphasis all the things that voters already hate about her.

She has to make sure, that the debate is about Trump and his lunacy. I hope she focuses on him being an unstabale con-artist and fraud, who ripped of decent people in the past. If you talk long enough about him, he´ll lose his temper.
 
Raoul said:
I'd imagine this will be tricky for both of them. He has to walk the tightrope of not appearing to be sexist or condescending, otherwise it will turn off any remaining undecideds - whilst still coming across as entertaining. She has to avoid mud wrestling with him in terms of insults, as that will basically demean her down to his level and she will wind up looking like Rubio and Cruz did when they attempted to take him on head to head. If I were Hillary I would keep it professional and drown him with policy substance and specifics which will imo highlight the lack of detail in his own proposals. Insulting her or saying everything will be terrific if he's elected will not work in this setting.
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That's how my mind is on it too, and why I'm surprised too that it seems to be the opposite way they're going after it failed for Jeb!, Cruz and Rubio.

Anyone on this side of the Atlantic staying up to watch it? I'm very tempted, but I have a training meeting for a new job the next day...
 
PedroMendez said:
She has to make sure, that the debate is about Trump and his lunacy. I hope she focuses on him being an unstabale con-artist and fraud, who ripped of decent people in the past. If you talk long enough about him, he´ll lose his temper.
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If this is the way it goes, I hope the stories of her having loads of research into the The Donald's dodgy dealings in his past are true #BindersOfTrumping
 
unchanged_lineup said:
If this is the way it goes, I hope the stories of her having loads of research into the The Donald's dodgy dealings in his past are true #BindersOfTrumping
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It is a nice idea to outclass him on policy, but Hillary is the wrong person to do that. The debate stage is not a lecture hall. You don´t have time to make long arguments. To convince people on issues you need the right image/credibility and deliver stuff on point. She can´t do either.
Talking about policy is playing defense, while handing over control to Trump. It won´t go horribly wrong for her, but I doubt that she´ll win over anyone. If she´d be 10+ points ahead, she should do that, but it is quite a gamble, when things a close.
 
PedroMendez said:
It is a nice idea to outclass him on policy, but Hillary is the wrong person to do that. The debate stage is not a lecture hall. You don´t have time to make long arguments. To convince people on issues you need the right image/credibility and deliver stuff on point. She can´t do either.
Talking about policy is playing defense, while handing over control to Trump. It won´t go horribly wrong for her, but I doubt that she´ll win over anyone. If she´d be 10+ points ahead, she should do that, but it is quite a gamble, when things a close.
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There's plenty of time to do it during the debates. Bill Clinton is The Godfather of drowning opponents with facts during debates and Hillary is nearly as good at it. Trump will look foolish attempting to be civil with her as she hammers him with policy substance to the point where he will eventually be forced to decouple and go back into entertainment mode.
 
My concern is that Trump will tone down his image for the debates and will actually come across as being a lot more reasonable as a result.

Hilary naturally has the edge when it comes to policy but elections are often decided on image, and unless she really, really hammers him on policy I'm not sure it's going to convince everyone.
 
Perhaps she will use policy to help prove he is unfit. The man has no depth to anything he says. If she can find a way to exploit that and show the contrast between her depth of knowledge on policy and his absolute lack thereof, she can accomplish both at the same time. Show he's unfit by showing he has no real plan.
 
Cal? said:
Is it true he'd be worth more now if he simply invested in an index tracking fund?
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Maybe but you can't ignore the fact that his businesses have created lots of other jobs and commerce. Sticking money into the market would have not created a single job or bought any raw materials to stimulate the construction industry.
 
Carolina Red said:
Perhaps she will use policy to help prove he is unfit. The man has no depth to anything he says. If she can find a way to exploit that and show the contrast between her depth of knowledge on policy and his absolute lack thereof, she can accomplish both at the same time. Show he's unfit by showing he has no real plan.
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Theoretically, they are both competing for a very narrow sliver of undecideds and fence sitters - probably no more than 3-5%. In essence, this debate is little more than a likeability contest that seeks to endear both candidates to the remaining undecideds. Anyone who is already for Trump or Hillary will likely not be swayed by anything that transpires other than having the experience entrench their pre-existing views. Unless of course there's a black swan moment where Trump says something so ridiculous that it backfires and causes a noticeable shift in the polls.
 
Raoul said:
Theoretically, they are both competing for a very narrow sliver of undecideds and fence sitters - probably no more than 3-5%. In essence, this debate is little more than a likeability contest that seeks to endear both candidates to the remaining undecideds. Anyone who is already for Trump or Hillary will likely not be swayed by anything that transpires other than having the experience entrench their pre-existing views. Unless of course there's a black swan moment where Trump says something so ridiculous that it backfires and causes a noticeable shift in the polls.
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Agreed. I hit on that earlier saying that Hillary could be looking to either sway fence sitters to her or to at least to anyone other than Trump.
 
Raoul said:
There's plenty of time to do it during the debates. Bill Clinton is The Godfather of drowning opponents with facts during debates and Hillary is nearly as good at it. Trump will look foolish attempting to be civil with her as she hammers him with policy substance to the point where he will eventually be forced to decouple and go back into entertainment mode.
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Facts don´t matter and even the deepest arguments are incredible shallow in these debates. It is all about image and presentation. Bill can crush these things because he has charisma, is a good speaker and has a great image (not just with democrats). Hillary is one of the least popular politicians ever and not a good speaker. Her memorized statements will at best be seen neutral or at worst make her look like MarcoBot 2.0.

When Trump is able to appear normal/civil, he´ll be able to gain something, because it would discredit the whole “unfit to hold office” narrative. Hillary looking normal would just confirm the existing image, which is terrible. Just like Trump blowing up would make him look bad, because he is also not a good speaker. Both are extremely unpopular and the person who is able to frame the debate will gain something.
 
PedroMendez said:
Facts don´t matter and even the deepest arguments are incredible shallow in these debates. It is all about image and presentation. Bill can crush these things because he has charisma, is a good speaker and has a great image (not just with democrats). Hillary is one of the least popular politicians ever and not a good speaker. Her memorized statements will at best be seen neutral or at worst make her look like MarcoBot 2.0.

When Trump is able to appear normal/civil, he´ll be able to gain something, because it would discredit the whole “unfit to hold office” narrative. Hillary looking normal would just confirm the existing image, which is terrible. Just like Trump blowing up would make him look bad, because he is also not a good speaker. Both are extremely unpopular and the person who is able to frame the debate will gain something.
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It's going to be an ugly debate, isn't it? I think I might be better getting loads of lovely sleep and catching the highlights in the morning :D
 
PedroMendez said:
Facts don´t matter and even the deepest arguments are incredible shallow in these debates. It is all about image and presentation. Bill can crush these things because he has charisma, is a good speaker and has a great image (not just with democrats). Hillary is one of the least popular politicians ever and not a good speaker. Her memorized statements will at best be seen neutral or at worst make her look like MarcoBot 2.0.

When Trump is able to appear normal/civil, he´ll be able to gain something, because it would discredit the whole “unfit to hold office” narrative. Hillary looking normal would just confirm the existing image, which is terrible. Just like Trump blowing up would make him look bad, because he is also not a good speaker. Both are extremely unpopular and the person who is able to frame the debate will gain something.
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Not a chance she will come across like Rubio. For one, she's a woman and Trump won't be able to attack her as he did Marco for fear of looking like a bullying sexist. Remember how stupid he looked against Fiorina when he attempted to walk back comments about her face. She is actually one of the best debaters there is, mainly because she is on the right side of the issues and is able to expound on specific policy issues at great length.

Trump doesn't want to go head to head with her on policy details as he will quickly drown, no less than she wants to get into a mudslinging insult fest with him. If she keeps things positive and policy focused it will give him little impetus to go negative, especially has he's always on about only being a counterpuncher. Trump will lose the debate if he attempts to be only civil because his brand is all about spontaneous quips, which won't work if he attempts to look Presidential at a time when he can't keep up with facts or policy specifics. The only way she will lose this is if she attempts to poke at him over his Russia ties, taxes etc, which he will no doubt use to counterpunch against her emails, Benghazi etc.
 
Grinner said:
If you're sitting on the fence at this point then you're a stupid cnut. Don't even vote.
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Yeah, for all this talk of people being undecided and being swayed by Hilary's talk of policy, I struggle to see anything Trump can do now to deter people who are still unsure of voting for him. If someone's still considering him a dodgy remark/policy or two probably isn't going to phase them all that much.
 
Raoul said:
The only way she will lose this is if she attempts to poke at him over his Russia ties, taxes etc, which he will no doubt use to counterpunch against her emails, Benghazi etc.
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Whatever about Russia, it's very hard to imagine those three things not being in the debate. If it's going badly for Trump, he will bring Benghazi into it. I'd say it's more likely than not that all three will come up.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Whatever about Russia, it's very hard to imagine those three things not being in the debate. If it's going badly for Trump, he will bring Benghazi into it. I'd say it's more likely than not that all three will come up.
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It all depends if one of them goes negative, which will no doubt draw a response from the other, which could escalate quickly.
 
Raoul said:
It all depends if one of them goes negative, which will no doubt draw a response from the other, which could escalate quickly.
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It's the nature of politics though, isn't it? Especially with these two. Unless they had some sort of pre-arranged deal not to touch certain topics, I'd say it all has potential to come up.
 
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