2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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I know, because you are a sneaky fecker Jeff! :lol: Should have listened about Panama too though ;) I'm sure Bernie mentioned it as well didn't he?

He may have mentioned it...
Edit - Going to stop being sarcastic now, yes Bernie did foretell of this great doom.

have a feeling this is just the tip of the iceberg....

Wouldn't be surprised to see a media blackout regarding the issue if any of our high level politicians or corporations are implicated. I do agree that there is likely more to come.
 
Sanders saw what was happening and she didn't, seems like someone might be unqualified to me. And yes those that voted for the war should be criticized for their mistake, it has cost hundreds of thousands of lives (many being noncombatants) and trillions of dollars. Kind of a big deal.

Why are you talking about tanks? If the gun shops legally sale firearms they should not be held accountable for lunatics that use the firearms illegally. What needs to change is the ease with which one can acquire firearms. Tanks ARE illegal and difficult to obtain therefore a lawsuit against someone that sold a tank that was used to kill a bunch of children would be entirely appropriate. You are the one missing the bigger picture, we need to make it more difficult to obtain firearms not allow lawsuits against those that are following the rules.

You probably don't think the money she receives from the elite influence her policy making either do you? Oh well, carry on.

Probably gonna regret this, but since I'm going to work in less than 2 hours..

Sanders's reasoning for his vote is 'I don't trust the guy'. Hardly nuanced reasoning, more of a gut feeling about W. He's probably a good judge of character, or maybe his isolation from his peers and fringe political beliefs make him much more suspicious of establishment politics, or maybe another reason. Still, I find it strange to say the least that the Iraq war vote is repeatedly leveled at Clinton despite her numerous apologies and explanations, while John Kerry, Joe Biden, John Edwards got nowhere near the same scrutiny, having vote for it themselves. Dianne Feinstein voted for it. Is she a neocon? That's a disastrous invasion that did much harm to the region and the world, but you know what equally destructive invasion that Sanders voted for? Afghanistan. The question about Iraq is the legality of the invasion, and on that ground it's much worse than Afghan, but both have been equally corrosive for the region's stability and US foreign policies going back decades are the roots of the problem. None of this absolve her from part of the blame, but it's important to note that the chief culprits are the Bush administration.

What I meant by tanks is merely to draw an analogy. If the auto industry are allowed to release millitary grade vehicles to the general populace, and dipshits start buying them en masse, creating pollution, infrastructural damage and accidents, wouldn't you think it'd be fair to hold them accountable? Not to mention that firearms in and of itself is a different question altogether. Their chief purpose is to kill and I think it's reasonable to hold the manufacturers recklessly flooding the market with those death tools without regards to the wellbeing of people accountable. Sanders himself has wavered on this issue btw, and while he still doesn't officially espouse the position yet, why isn't it a legitimate question that families of the victims should be able to seek redress? I fecking hate guns so yes, it might cloud my judgement, but if my mother was shot dead by death tools that have no business being in public, I'd make sure that producers of those weapons get hell for it, and the one I vote for support my effort. Why shouldn't the industry be held liable for damages so that they are more responsible with their products? It actually seems far more likely that such laws will have a more positive effect than the numerous checks and assault weapon ban being touted.

On the final point, I'm not naive enough to believe that, but moneyed interests negotiate with politicians, some more than the others. Bernie Sanders got large donations from the farming industry, which is responsible for about 15% of greenhouse gases, and he voted in their favor consistently. Is he corrupt? No, but politicians usually have one or two core positions they will not compromise on, and the rest is negotiable to various degrees. Obama's is healthcare and gun control, Hillary's is gender equality and advocacy for children (healthcare, childhood education) and Bernie's is income inequality. Politicians say a whole lot of guffs. Id rather look at their legislative record to know their true positions, rather than what they say to the electorate.
 
I'm sure you're not speaking of Hillary! She has never let any of the money she receives from the rich influence her! At all! I am appalled by your insinuation!

I am disgusted you would think she would be so disingenuous and sneaky! Why would a woman who is so honest and trustworthy be like that? I mean it's not like she gets paid to protect the banks interests is it? She didn't get paid $675,000 for 3 speeches to Goldman Sachs and together with her husband they haven't taken over 17 million dollars for speaking at events at top banks, have they?

You should be ashamed of yourself, shamelessly trying to besmirch the good name of Hillary Clinton. :nono:
 
Probably gonna regret this, but since I'm going to work in less than 2 hours..

Sanders's reasoning for his vote is 'I don't trust the guy'. Hardly nuanced reasoning, more of a gut feeling about W. He's probably a good judge of character, or maybe his isolation from his peers and fringe political beliefs make him much more suspicious of establishment politics, or maybe another reason. Still, I find it strange to say the least that the Iraq war vote is repeatedly leveled at Clinton despite her numerous apologies and explanations, while John Kerry, Joe Biden, John Edwards got nowhere near the same scrutiny, having vote for it themselves. Dianne Feinstein voted for it. Is she a neocon? That's a disastrous invasion that did much harm to the region and the world, but you know what equally destructive invasion that Sanders voted for? Afghanistan. The question about Iraq is the legality of the invasion, and on that ground it's much worse than Afghan, but both have been equally corrosive for the region's stability and US foreign policies going back decades are the roots of the problem. None of this absolve her from part of the blame, but it's important to note that the chief culprits are the Bush administration.

What I meant by tanks is merely to draw an analogy. If the auto industry are allowed to release millitary grade vehicles to the general populace, and dipshits start buying them en masse, creating pollution, infrastructural damage and accidents, wouldn't you think it'd be fair to hold them accountable? Not to mention that firearms in and of itself is a different question altogether. Their chief purpose is to kill and I think it's reasonable to hold the manufacturers recklessly flooding the market with those death tools without regards to the wellbeing of people accountable. Sanders himself has wavered on this issue btw, and while he still doesn't officially espouse the position yet, why isn't it a legitimate question that families of the victims should be able to seek redress? I fecking hate guns so yes, it might cloud my judgement, but if my mother was shot dead by death tools that have no business being in public, I'd make sure that producers of those weapons get hell for it, and the one I vote for support my effort. Why shouldn't the industry be held liable for damages so that they are more responsible with their products? It actually seems far more likely that such laws will have a more positive effect than the numerous checks and assault weapon ban being touted.

On the final point, I'm not naive enough to believe that, but moneyed interests negotiate with politicians, some more than the others. Bernie Sanders got large donations from the farming industry, which is responsible for about 15% of greenhouse gases, and he voted in their favor consistently. Is he corrupt? No, but politicians usually have one or two core positions they will not compromise on, and the rest is negotiable to various degrees. Obama's is healthcare and gun control, Hillary's is gender equality and advocacy for children (healthcare, childhood education) and Bernie's is income inequality. Politicians say a whole lot of guffs. Id rather look at their legislative record to know their true positions, rather than what they say to the electorate.

Sleep sweet prince, I will respond on the morrow.
 
guns don't kill. people kill.

I'm against the NRA and more importantly the Congress that has not enacted common sense gun laws. Not gun manufacturers. If we had common sense laws, those children would not have been killed.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is amazing. You spend the last few pages accusing various folk on here of parroting right wing talking points, then you come out with the most corrosive and disingenuous one of them all.
 
I am disgusted you would think she would be so disingenuous and sneaky! Why would a woman who is so honest and trustworthy be like that? I mean it's not like she gets paid to protect the banks interests is it? She didn't get paid $675,000 for 3 speeches to Goldman Sachs and together with her husband they haven't taken over 17 million dollars for speaking at events at top banks, have they?

You should be ashamed of yourself, shamelessly trying to besmirch the good name of Hillary Clinton. :nono:


I'm going to take issue with you here. She just has not got round to copywriting those speeches. They could be worth an awful lot more than what she got.
She has been busy running for President FFS.

Perhaps some day it will be turned into a play and we will all drool over it.
 
:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is amazing. You spend the last few pages accusing various folk on here of parroting right wing talking points, then you come out with the most corrosive and disingenuous one of them all.

err. its the truth though.

I have never been against people wanting to own guns.

Gun laws..or lack of them is why we have had all those murders.

You must have missed my discussions with Dwayne.

wake up lad.
 
guns don't kill. people kill.

I'm against the NRA and more importantly the Congress that has not enacted common sense gun laws. Not gun manufacturers. If we had common sense laws, those children would not have been killed.

Yep, it's like legalizing flamethrowers and getting pissed when people sell and use them. The problem is the law not the people following the law (although common sense SHOULD result in a reluctance to shoot things and burn things).

I just noticed I have been spelling 'sell' as 'sale'. Looks like my credibility is shot, I blame auto correct and posting on this damned phone.
 
Yep, it's like legalizing flamethrowers and getting pissed when people sell and use them. The problem is the law not the people following the law (although common sense SHOULD result in a reluctance to shoot things and burn things).

I just noticed I have been spelling 'sell' as 'sale'. Looks like my credibility is shot, I blame auto correct and posting on this damned phone.

Jeff. I have been consistent in saying I'm not for banning guns. We are a rural country. I don't hunt for example. But that does not mean I am against hunters.
Assault weapons is a different matter. I am only for those to be sold under very strict controls.

Canada has them. Why do we not hear about this every other week?

Common sense laws??
 
I am disgusted you would think she would be so disingenuous and sneaky! Why would a woman who is so honest and trustworthy be like that? I mean it's not like she gets paid to protect the banks interests is it? She didn't get paid $675,000 for 3 speeches to Goldman Sachs and together with her husband they haven't taken over 17 million dollars for speaking at events at top banks, have they?

You should be ashamed of yourself, shamelessly trying to besmirch the good name of Hillary Clinton. :nono:

You're right, I'm sorry... She is just doing her best to represent the people and make this world a better and safer place.
 
err. its the truth though.

I have never been against people wanting to own guns.

Gun laws..or lack of them is why we have had all those murders.

You must have missed my discussions with Dwayne.

wake up lad.
And THAT VERY ARGUMENT is one of the prime reasons gun laws don't get passed. The very argument the NRA uses.

Guns kill people, guns kill children. The idea of gun control is predicated on the idea that guns are highly lethal objects that need strict regulations for sale, handling and storage. Not that it's the people that are the problem, as you just implied. The guns are the problem.
 
Jeff. I have been consistent in saying I'm not for banning guns. We are a rural country. I don't hunt for example. But that does not mean I am against hunters.
Assault weapons is a different matter. I am only for those to be sold under very strict controls.

Canada has them. Why do we not hear about this every other week?

Common sense laws??

Yeah I agree. Handguns need to be VERY limited as well imo. Assault rifles don't have a place in a civilized society. These gun issues need to be addressed but suing those that operate by the current laws is completely out of order. We must change the laws but I don't think we need to take away all guns. Just more restrictions on the types and who can buy them.
 
And THAT VERY ARGUMENT is one of the prime reasons gun laws don't get passed. The very argument the NRA uses.

Guns kill people, guns kill children. The idea of gun control is predicated on the idea that guns are highly lethal objects that need strict regulations for sale, handling and storage. Not that it's the people that are the problem, as you just implied. The guns are the problem.

you do realize Congress pass laws that are signed by the President?

Guns are the problem???

lack of laws is the problem.

why does Canada not have these problems?
 
Yeah I agree. Handguns need to be VERY limited as well imo. Assault rifles don't have a place in a civilized society. These gun issues need to be addressed but suing those that operate by the current laws is completely out of order. We must change the laws but I don't think we need to take away all guns. Just more restrictions on the types and who can buy them.

lets be honest. These congressmen have been bought off by the NRA.
 
look I have wanted to get a western revolver.(as a collection item) But my wife has put her foot down even on me buying a replica gun.
well thats that.

I have never been against people owning guns.

Guns in this country is part of our culture. The pity is most hunters and gun owners want reasonable gun laws. They do not want children killed any more than us.

But these bastards saying "our thoughts and prayers" each time..makes me want to....

ahh bugger it.
 
"It's part of our culture" is a bullshit lazy meaningless justification to be quite frank. Lots of things have been part of culture until they're not, including some very ugly ideas.

The bottom line is that people are being killed on a daily basis and 'but I like my gun' isn't good enough a reason to not do something about that.
 
.

why does Canada not have these problems?

Because they are a much more liberal, homogenous country with vastly better living standards and social harmony that makes enforcing sensible gun laws much more easily?

By all means, keep the rifles and shot guns for your farming and hunting purpose, but ban the feck out of everything else. How can you walk the street knowing that your life and your loved ones' lives can be taken away at any moment by a loon due to the proliferation of those weapons?
 
what is lazy is not passing sensible gun laws. or not understanding that guns are necessary in rural areas for protection of livestock and culling of deer populations, just for starters.
There's no necessity for hand guns. None.
 
you do realize Congress pass laws that are signed by the President?

Guns are the problem???

lack of laws is the problem.

why does Canada not have these problems?
Guns per capita in the US - 112
Guns per capita in Canada - 31

Population of USA - 318m
Population of Canada - 35m

Probably something to do with it.

Guns are definitely the problem, which is why you need the bloody laws to control them. Such a bizarre argument.
 
Because they are a much more liberal, homogenous country with vastly better living standards and social harmony that makes enforcing sensible gun laws much more easily?

By all means, keep the rifles and shot guns for your farming and hunting purpose, but ban the feck out of everything else. How can you walk the street knowing that your life and your loved ones' lives can be taken away at any moment by a loon due to the proliferation of those weapons?

completely untrue.

I would simply replicate Canadian gun laws. They do have assault rifles there btw.
Have gun registration. waiting periods.

we will all be better off.
 
what is lazy is not passing sensible gun laws. or not understanding that guns are necessary in rural areas for protection of livestock and culling of deer populations, just for starters.
No one is saying weapons should be outright illegal, even here in the UK you can get hunting licences and buy weapons. But the vast majority of us have no need for them and should be excluded. Paint guns are about as close as we should be allowed.
 
The only common sense gun law is to allow only licence holding ranchers to own single barrel hunting riffles.

Everything else is illegal.
 
completely untrue.

I would simply replicate Canadian gun laws. They do have assault rifles there btw.
Have gun registration. waiting periods.

we will all be better off.


All of their minorities population make up less than 10 percent of the demographics. They consistently rank higher than America and among the top in the world regarding healthcare, living standards and life satisfaction. They do not have a historical racial conflict that afflict society at large till this day.

None of what I pointed out is untrue.

Registration and waiting periods won't solve America's gun problem. You are right, guns don't kill people by themselves, but they are much more likely to cause harm in a divided, high strung society.
 
All of their minorities population make up less than 10 percent of the demographics. They consistently rank higher than America and among the top in the world regarding healthcare, living standards and life satisfaction. They do not have a historical racial conflict that afflict society at large till this day.

None of what I pointed out is untrue.

Registration and waiting periods won't solve America's gun problem. You are right, guns don't kill people by themselves, but they are much more likely to cause harm in a divided, high strung society.

you do realize that is a plain racist statement?
 
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