2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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the fact is the Capitalist system works when you keep the majority in poverty or near poverty.

Economic ideas are not separate from political will and need. People will in the end prevail. But we can decide how it will change. But Change it Will.

That is the system - it's not designed as a social safety net, its designed for self motivated individuals to start small businesses with minimal government interference.
 
His position here is a valid one, firearm shops/manufacturers that legally sell firearms should not be held accountable for what lunatics do with those firearms. What DOES need to be addressed is the process by which those firearms are obtained and Bernie has regularly supported common sense gun reform. Clinton is using the situation to associate him with a terribly tragic event despite him having good reasons for voting the way he did and his tough stance on guns (check NRA grades if you think he is easy on guns). Your comment that calling someone unqualified during a nomination race is one of the worst insults possible is laughably over the top, particularly as they are attempting to paint him as responsible for child murder.

How many children have been murdered in our unnecessary war in Iraq? Which of them voted for that and which against it? Yeah that's right.... if we want to talk about who is responsible for children dying we can but it won't work out well for Hillary.

As far as I can recall, Clinton apologized for her Iraq vote years before, despite the obvious fact that her vote made not one iota of difference to a motion that passed 77-23.

The legislation is a fecked up one. No other industry in America is afforded that level of protection that they cannot even be challenged in court. You have the NRA calling it 'the most important piece of legislation in the last 20 years'. There's a judicial system, let the families have their day in court, if the lawsuit is deemed frivolous or insufficient it'll be thrown out. Also, never mind the fact that in a long, drawn out litigation process, those families and advocacy groups are at a distinct disadvantage financially to begin with.

My comment is really not over the top. There's a few things you can't say out loud in the political process. He has straight up delegitimised her candidacy by saying she's not fit to serve and you bet your ass the GOP will gladly drive that point home ad nauseum in the general. Behind his words is not him alone, it's 6.5 millions people who voted for him, and it does nothing for party unity or addressing issues. It's political arson.
 
We're not talking about job creation, we're talking about the government nurturing a climate for businesses to flourish in order to grow the economy, as opposed to the government behaving as a 40% shake down artist that pillages businesses for revenue that disappears into a black hole and doesn't benefit the general public.

Haven´t you always been going on about fantastic business environment in the US and how its great for entrepreneurs and how it´s the greatest country in the world? Strange for a shakedown artist government.
 
That is the system - it's not designed as a social safety net, its designed for self motivated individuals to start small businesses with minimal government interference.


Its designed so everyone is NOT on the same level playing field. That is the Only way it works.

We will Change that. Change is never easy and it will come at a cost...and will be painful.

But it will happen.
 
Haven´t you always been going on about fantastic business environment in the US and how its great for entrepreneurs and how it´s the greatest country in the world? Strange for a shakedown artist government.

That's precisely the tug of war that is going on between the government and the private economy. You can't have the social-welfare state and still retain a favorable business climate AND keep a high corporate tax rate because they mutually undermine one another.
 
Its designed so everyone is NOT on the same level playing field. That is the Only way it works.

We will Change that. Change is never easy and it will come at a cost...and will be painful.

But it will happen.

Capitalism isn't going anywhere, trust me. Its the engine of the world.
 
That's precisely the tug of war that is going on between the government and the private economy. You can't have the social-welfare state and still retain a favorable business climate AND keep a high corporate tax rate because they mutually undermine one another.

Says you.

You can´t keep passing these ideas off as gospel truths. There are loads of arguments in contra.

http://fortune.com/2012/02/23/why-lower-corporate-tax-rates-wont-help-the-u-s/

From Fortune magazine: Why Lower Corporate Tax Rates Won´t Help The U.S.
 
Capitalism isn't going anywhere, trust me. Its the engine of the world.

Capitalism as defined by you here and others on the right will go away.

We will change it.

The needs of the many far outweighs the needs of the few.

It is a bit like the Matrix...people waking up to the Real world. People on both sides disbelieving the lies they have been fed for decades.

Its happening...why an old man and an entertainer have so much believers.
 
As far as I can recall, Clinton apologized for her Iraq vote years before, despite the obvious fact that her vote made not one iota of difference to a motion that passed 77-23.

The legislation is a fecked up one. No other industry in America is afforded that level of protection that they cannot even be challenged in court. You have the NRA calling it 'the most important piece of legislation in the last 20 years'. There's a judicial system, let the families have their day in court, if the lawsuit is deemed frivolous or insufficient it'll be thrown out. Also, never mind the fact that in a long, drawn out litigation process, those families and advocacy groups are at a distinct disadvantage financially to begin with.

My comment is really not over the top. There's a few things you can't say out loud in the political process. He has straight up delegitimised her candidacy by saying she's not fit to serve and you bet your ass the GOP will gladly drive that point home ad nauseum in the general. Behind his words is not him alone, it's 6.5 millions people who voted for him, and it does nothing for party unity or addressing issues. It's political arson.

Okay she apologized and it wouldn't have mattered anyway, guess that's her exonerated! :lol:

If an entity legally sales a firearm they should not be held accountable (legally) for what the buyer does with said firearm, it is really simple. What should be addressed is the ease in which firearms are obtained.

It is completely ridiculous to assert that calling someone unqualified is a cardinal sin while accepting an attempt to paint someone as a child murderer by proxy. Any sane human being would take umbrage to being labelled as a child murderer much quicker than being labelled unqualified, I don't care what your political rule sheet is telling you.

Don't forget that Hillary "tough on guns" Clinton has accepted money from NRA lobbyists and ex-lobbyists.
 
Capitalism as defined by you here and others on the right will go away.

We will change it.

The needs of the many far outweighs the needs of the few.

It is a bit like the Matrix...people waking up to the Real world. People on both sides disbelieving the lies they have been fed for decades.

Its happening...why an old man and an entertainer have so much believers.

You're right about Trump and Sanders being in the same category.
 
Okay she apologized and it wouldn't have mattered anyway, guess that's her exonerated! :lol:

If an entity legally sales a firearm they should not be held accountable (legally) for what the buyer does with said firearm, it is really simple. What should be addressed is the ease in which firearms are obtained.

It is completely ridiculous to assert that calling someone unqualified is a cardinal sin while accepting an attempt to paint someone as a child murderer by proxy. Any sane human being would take umbrage to being labelled as a child murderer much quicker than being labelled unqualified, I don't care what your political rule sheet is telling you.

Don't forget that Hillary "tough on guns" Clinton has accepted money from NRA lobbyists and ex-lobbyists.


She also voted to send our troops to kill and die in a war that should never have been fought. But hey...just another vote in the life of a busy woman.
 
Okay she apologized and it wouldn't have mattered anyway, guess that's her exonerated! :lol:

If an entity legally sales a firearm they should not be held accountable (legally) for what the buyer does with said firearm, it is really simple. What should be addressed is the ease in which firearms are obtained.

It is completely ridiculous to assert that calling someone unqualified is a cardinal sin while accepting an attempt to paint someone as a child murderer by proxy. Any sane human being would take umbrage to being labelled as a child murderer much quicker than being labelled unqualified, I don't care what your political rule sheet is telling you.

Don't forget that Hillary "tough on guns" Clinton has accepted money from NRA lobbyists and ex-lobbyists.

I'm very tired now and need to go to bed, but let's.

The Iraq vote was not an explicit approval of invasion by the US Senate. It's an authorization to use military force subjected to the command of the President. She's explained that she had a good working relationship with W in the aftermath of 9/11; in her speech on the floor, she stressed that she trust the President to do the right thing, and he didn't. Now, you can question her judgment on the matter, but on that ground let's denigrate John Kerry, Joe Biden et al. as well. Fact of the matter is W and Dick Vader misled the US and the world about WMDs in Iraq, and the blame lays principally on the two of them, along with the neocons that made up W's foreign policy team. Does that exonerate her from any blame? No, but in the broader context, it's not her fault chiefly that those children in Iraq died. Since then, she's gone on record numerous times apologizing for it and explained the reasoning behind her vote. I don't care if you believe her, fact of the matter is that she apologized.

Now move on to Sanders and the gun victims families. The arm manufacturing industry is the only one protected under US laws from litigation against their products. Saying that they sell their products legally is missing the big picture. The fact is that they've aggressively spent money on lobbying to repeal assault weapon ban and flood the market with military grade weapons that are highly destructive in the wrong hands. If the auto industries release fecking tanks that feck up the environment, road and endanger people, those affected can go after them. Why not the gun industry? What do they have to fear? Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination, and gun control is one of the policy pillars of the party. The families of victims want to know he'll be an advocate for them, they want representation. They ask for an apology to that vote, just as much of the base asked Clinton for her Iraq vote. He didn't apologize, because he feels he's in the right. That's his right, just as well as the right of the families to ask for that apology. Now you can speculate about the Clinton's campaign involvement in this request, but I hope you won't dismiss the legitimacy of their grievance.

As for your last points, lobbyists and bundles often represents multiple industries. I can't see how in translates to Clinton's support of the gun industry. She holds an F rating from the NRA. Her vote reflects her position, no matter the gun lovin' show put up in '08.
 
In favor of a Carbon tax (a Republican idea), but again, you pretty much have an entire political party ideologically rejecting it.

Selfish cnuts who are so bitter, greedy, selfish and short-sighted will ruin it for everyone including their kids and their kids and their kids etc.... I saw the exact same problem when I was a fisherman hence why I decided to give the job up in the end. Too upsetting and fighting a losing battle. I just hope enough can turn this around because it's gone too far now. Maybe damage limitation is the best we can hope for?
 
all this carbon tax..and such . too little too late.

We are talking massive environmental changes to sea coasts.

This numpty from Florida....Rubio...the guy who endorsed him is worried about his town and he is denying Climate change.

He should be impaled on the sea coast.

FFS.
 
I'm very tired now and need to go to bed, but let's.

The Iraq vote was not an explicit approval of invasion by the US Senate. It's an authorization to use military force subjected to the command of the President. She's explained that she had a good working relationship with W in the aftermath of 9/11; in her speech on the floor, she stressed that she trust the President to do the right thing, and he didn't. Now, you can question her judgment on the matter, but on that ground let's denigrate John Kerry, Joe Biden et al. as well. Fact of the matter is W and Dick Vader misled the US and the world about WMDs in Iraq, and the blame lays principally on the two of them, along with the neocons that made up W's foreign policy team. Does that exonerate her from any blame? No, but in the broader context, it's not her fault chiefly that those children in Iraq died. Since then, she's gone on record numerous times apologizing for it and explained the reasoning behind her vote. I don't care if you believe her, fact of the matter is that she apologized.

Now move on to Sanders and the gun victims families. The arm manufacturing industry is the only one protected under US laws from litigation against their products. Saying that they sell their products legally is missing the big picture. The fact is that they've aggressively spent money on lobbying to repeal assault weapon ban and flood the market with military grade weapons that are highly destructive in the wrong hands. If the auto industries release fecking tanks that feck up the environment, road and endanger people, those affected can go after them. Why not the gun industry? What do they have to fear? Sanders is running for the Democratic nomination, and gun control is one of the policy pillars of the party. The families of victims want to know he'll be an advocate for them, they want representation. They ask for an apology to that vote, just as much of the base asked Clinton for her Iraq vote. He didn't apologize, because he feels he's in the right. That's his right, just as well as the right of the families to ask for that apology. Now you can speculate about the Clinton's campaign involvement in this request, but I hope you won't dismiss the legitimacy of their grievance.

As for your last points, lobbyists and bundles often represents multiple industries. I can't see how in translates to Clinton's support of the gun industry. She holds an F rating from the NRA. Her vote reflects her position, no matter the gun lovin' show put up in '08.

Sanders saw what was happening and she didn't, seems like someone might be unqualified to me. And yes those that voted for the war should be criticized for their mistake, it has cost hundreds of thousands of lives (many being noncombatants) and trillions of dollars. Kind of a big deal.

Why are you talking about tanks? If the gun shops legally sale firearms they should not be held accountable for lunatics that use the firearms illegally. What needs to change is the ease with which one can acquire firearms. Tanks ARE illegal and difficult to obtain therefore a lawsuit against someone that sold a tank that was used to kill a bunch of children would be entirely appropriate. You are the one missing the bigger picture, we need to make it more difficult to obtain firearms not allow lawsuits against those that are following the rules.

You probably don't think the money she receives from the elite influences her policy making either do you? Oh well, carry on.
 
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Hasn't the whole 'US corporations pay the highest tax' thing had been completely debunked, seeing as you know, most of them don't end up paying that much tax?
 
Hasn't the whole 'US corporations pay the highest tax' thing had been completely debunked, seeing as you know, most of them don't end up paying that much tax?

Some don't. Many of the ones I look at pay the full 39% though. Not a huge sample, but definetly a case that some considerably sized businesses pay the full thing, so where the rate is makes a difference to investment decissions.
 
I told you, when I told you I wasn't a wolf, but you didn't believe me you sneaky fecker. :(

Oh I believed you, in fact I knew you were telling the truth. I just happened to be a wolf myself :devil:

Wait weren't you the sk you sneaky little shit? This whole having a newborn thing has taken a toll on my already shit memory :lol:
 
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