2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Also also - sorry for the catching up posts, I've been away for a while. These quotes from Obama remind me of exactly what Krugman's been saying for a long time:
Obama mocked what he called "the Republican establishment" for feigned shock at Trump's anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim lies and slurs.

"How can you be shocked?" Obama asked. "This is the guy, remember, who was sure that I was born in Kenya. Who just wouldn’t let it go. And all this same Republican establishment, they weren’t saying nothing. As long as it was directed at me, they were fine with it. They thought it was a hoot. Wanted to get his endorsement. And then now, suddenly, we’re shocked that there’s gambling going on in this establishment.

"What is happening in this primary is just a distillation of what’s been happening inside their party for more than a decade," Obama said, arguing that the chaos in the Republican Party is a continuation of its science-denying climate extremism, unwillingness to compromise and declaration that those holding opposing views are traitors.

"So if you don’t care about the facts, or the evidence, or civility, in general, in making your arguments, you will end up with candidates who will say just about anything and do just about anything," Obama said.
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Except that Obama doesn't go far enough. Reagan started this discourse (or at least continued it - I'm not an expert on American History) by waving a flag at white America saying that he would come down hard on the (obviously African American) "welfare queens" ruining their country. The political discourse in the US has only gotten worse since, and the "us against them" mentality that the Republican Party has tried to present to white America is appalling. Support for Trimp is the manifestation of exactly that, and isn't anything new, it's just less polished, more crass, and much more divisive. The GOP only have themselves to blame for this whole mess.
 
Ubik said:
GOP are now the Whigs, waiting to be replaced by a reformed party fit for this century. Where's the Lincoln?
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But how does this happen? What position or type of politician could possibly unite America, or push the United States to progress from a political position to the right of the Democrats? I'm obviously looking at this from an outside perspective, but I don't see where the American right goes from here - the loonies already run the asylum.
 
It was always there. Reagan's speech at Philadelphia, MS about states rights was designed to win over Wallace voters. Wallace voters were previously supporters of Ross Barnett and Orville Faubus and so on and so forth.
 
Eboue said:
It was always there. Reagan's speech at Philadelphia, MS about states rights was designed to win over Wallace voters. Wallace voters were previously supporters of Ross Barnett and Orville Faubus and so on and so forth.
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Fair, I'm sure you're right. Going to pick up "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" this week, the events in Chicago reminded me of some of the stories I've read of 1972 (maybe '68?).
 
ThierryHenry said:
Fair, I'm sure you're right. Going to pick up "Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail" this week, the events in Chicago reminded me of some of the stories I've read of 1972 (maybe '68?).
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Brilliant read.
 
senorgregster said:
Odd. First time I've been really impressed by her. She seemed real tonight. What didnt you like with that response? I really liked her response on gun control.

Agree on Sanders.
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She's just not a natural politician, which is why she often struggles to come across as genuine. Sanders on the other hand, speaks in clear, concise terms that easily connect with the audience. She didn't do too poorly though, spare one or two nervy moments.
 
sglowrider said:
The person I want isn't running. Sad.

Elizabeth Warren.
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She was my dream candidate -- because I thought Bernie would never run! I knew that he was a socialist and was thus a complete pipe-dream, but I thought Warren would be the realistic choice.
In terms of changing the conversation, she couldn't have matched his impact - he has made socialism (sortof) mainstream again.
 
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berbatrick said:
In terms of changing the conversation, she couldn't have matched his impact - he has made socialism (sortof) mainstream again.
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Are you sure? Most surveys I've seen indicates that voters tend to become more conservative as they age. While Bernie's is a commendable effort, I don't think it has as big an impact as you think. If he doesn't win, it'll be forgotten in the blink of an eye.

If socialism becomes mainstream again, it's because of the changing demographic that galvanize the long dormant the far left of the Democratic Party which chafed under the centrist/New Democrat/Third Way type.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Are you sure? Most surveys I've seen indicates that voters tend to become more conservative as they age. While Bernie's is a commendable effort, I don't think it has as big an impact as you think. If he doesn't win, it'll be forgotten in the blink of an eye.

If socialism becomes mainstream again, it's because of the changing demographic that galvanize the long dormant the far left of the Democratic Party which chafed under the centrist/New Democrat/Third Way type.
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It's hard to identify cause and effect here but the polls showing socialism>capitalism for under-30s and the poll of the Iowa Democatic party mean that there's been a general shift. I think it's fair to say Bernie is profiting off the narrative built by Occupy but with his platform he's spread the message much further. Just look at the difference between how Obama avoided the slur and how he embraced it.
Finally, given his youth support, this campaign does clear the way for more leftist Dems in the future.
 
berbatrick said:
Finally, given his youth support, this campaign does clear the way for more leftist Dems in the future.
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I sincerely hope this is case, that the Bern can last long enough to turn his young voters into political activists one way or another. Much of my skepticism with the Sanders's campaign stemmed from the fact that the youth vote abandoned Obama in '10, which led to a decade, if not more, of Republicans taking over near enough every branch of government from federal to state level.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
I sincerely hope this is case, that the Bern can last long enough to turn his young voters into political activists one way or another. Much of my skepticism with the Sanders's campaign stemmed from the fact that the youth vote abandoned Obama in '10, which led to a decade, if not more, of Republicans taking over near enough every branch of government from federal to state level.
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So with the youth vote out of the equation, the Republicans have that strong a majority among the rest of the voters?
 
prateik said:
So with the youth vote out of the equation, the Republicans have that strong a majority among the rest of the voters?
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Not necessarily. There are multiple factors that led to '10. Lower turn out across all key demographics, as is the norm with Dems every mid term, being one of them. Still, young voters tend to only be energized by the fervor of a presidential campaign and they are easily frustrated and become disenfranchised by the process.
 
Without adblock i always got these ads on this thread:
Should Obama be allowed to take away your guns?*
TRUE conservative for senate/house(nc/oklahoma/others) 2016

Today i got
How well do you know donald trump (paid for by our principles pac)

* this had a red yes button and green no button. Unfortunately pressing yes only got me to a video explaining that he is taking away my guns. I expected better coding from the millionaire and billionaire class, wall street, and big corporations :P
 
berbatrick said:
Without adblock i always got these ads on this thread:
Should Obama be allowed to take away your guns?*
TRUE conservative for senate/house(nc/oklahoma/others) 2016

Today i got
How well do you know donald trump (paid for by our principles pac)

* this had a red yes button and green no button. Unfortunately pressing yes only got me to a video explaining that he is taking away my guns. I expected better coding from the millionaire and billionaire class, wall street, and big corporations :P
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:lol:
 
Even Arthur Edelman, the wall street titan and model for the infamous Gordon Gekko has come out definitively in favor of Bernie Sanders based on the very simple themes of the velocity of money and a middle class with money that spends it, in addition to banking speculation. It´s such a basic concept that the douche factor does all that it can to cover up and discredit. And of course you´ll have the corporate and wall street water boys continually explaining that Sanders doesn´t understand economics or is stuck in the sixties.

http://www.businessinsider.com/asher-edelman-endorses-bernie-sanders-2016-3

"Well, I think it's quite simple again. If you look at something called velocity of money, you guys know what that is I presume, that means how much gets spent and turns around. When you have the top 1% getting money, they spend 5-10% of what they earn. When you have the lower end of the economy getting money, they spend 100-110% of what they earn.

As you've had a transfer of wealth to the top and a transfer of income to the top, you have a shrinking consumer base basically, and you have a shrinking velocity of money. Bernie is the only person out there who I think is talking at all about both fiscal stimulation and banking rules that will get the banks to begin to generate lending again as opposed to speculation."
 
Eriku said:
I thought you considered Hillary winning the primary preferable? Or is it just that you prefer an even match? :)
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I'm impartial to either since both would be far preferable to a Republican. My concerns about Bernie being able to implement his policies if elected are still legitimate, since the Republicans would block most if not all of his proposals. I do like Bernie and respect his efforts at trying to bring change to the system.
 
It'll be a pretty big deal if Bernie can win Illinois, based on pure demographics 538 reckons it should be far better for Clinton than the likes of Michigan, Ohio and Missouri. Possible local factors at play there with Rahm Emanuel's unpopularity being an issue that Bernie has used to good effect.
 
Ubik said:
It'll be a pretty big deal if Bernie can win Illinois, based on pure demographics 538 reckons it should be far better for Clinton than the likes of Michigan, Ohio and Missouri. Possible local factors at play there with Rahm Emanuel's unpopularity being an issue that Bernie has used to good effect.
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Its basically Hillary's original home state, so if Bernie were to win or even press her to a near draw, the entire conversation about Hillary's electability would change and Bernie would be perceived as the more viable candidate.
 
Raoul said:
Its basically Hillary's original home state, so if Bernie were to win or even press her to a near draw, the entire conversation about Hillary's electability would change and Bernie would be perceived as the more viable candidate.
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Who actually sees her as an Illinois politician though? She's associated with New York (or even Arkansas) in the same way that Bernie is more associated with Vermont than NY. Plus she's won Virginia big, is likely to win Florida and North Carolina big on the same day and is favoured in Ohio, so seems to have an advantage in the big-ticket swing states.
 
Ubik said:
Who actually sees her as an Illinois politician though? She's associated with New York (or even Arkansas) in the same way that Bernie is more associated with Vermont than NY. Plus she's won Virginia big, is likely to win Florida and North Carolina big on the same day and is favoured in Ohio, so seems to have an advantage in the big-ticket swing states.
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I think there's still a lingering vibe that Hillary's campaign lacks enthusiasm, which Bernie seems to have in abundance. We're at a delicate tipping point now, where if Bernie performs better than previously expected, the conversation and narrative about Hillary's viability will once again come into question; obviously to Bernie's advantage. The entire balance of power and momentum could be tipped in his favor tomorrow if he outperforms expectations.
 
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