2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

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Kaos said:
What do you like about Clinton?
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I was just watching the Flint debate on youtube and I thought both handled it relatively well and came out 50-50. Maybe Sanders just edging it. They both talk sense and like Clinton said in the debate, their debate was so much more mature than the republican debate.
 
Red Dreams said:
@MarceloFalcon
I can understand your frustration with corruption. But its not unique to a Socialist system. We have corruption here in the States. Congress/courts/Presidency in one way or another are corrupt.
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All us Latin American countries have swung right and left, but the massive corruption remains the same. It´s part of our insane legacy.
 
Sigma said:
I was just watching the Flint debate on youtube and I thought both handled it relatively well and came out 50-50. Maybe Sanders just edging it. They both talk sense and like Clinton said in the debate, their debate was so much more mature than the republican debate.
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Fair enough, but policy wise she's full of shit, has pretty much flip flopped on all her major stances and is also in the pockets of Wall Street. Just my opinion of course, she's nothing like Sanders.

But again after watching the GOP debates, you'd be forgiven for thinking that was the case.
 
Kaos said:
Fair enough, but policy wise she's full of shit, has pretty much flip flopped on all her major stances and is also in the pockets of Wall Street. Just my opinion of course, she's nothing like Sanders.

But again after watching the GOP debates, you'd be forgiven for thinking that was the case.
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I looked at the Green Party platform today.... ;)

Jill Stein sounds so sensible.
 
Ben Carson cracked open an awkward conversation for Donald Trump as he threw his backing behind his former rival and justified the move by saying, “There are two different Donald Trumps.”

The real estate mogul, speaking at a news conference on Friday morning, conceded the point — “perhaps there are two Donald Trumps” — before reversing himself after reporters seized on the comment. “I don’t think there are two Donald Trumps.”
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Donald Trump has even flipflopped on how many Donald Trumps there are.
 
Kaos said:
Fair enough, but policy wise she's full of shit, has pretty much flip flopped on all her major stances and is also in the pockets of Wall Street. Just my opinion of course, she's nothing like Sanders.

But again after watching the GOP debates, you'd be forgiven for thinking that was the case.
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I think her campaign positions on domestic policy are fine. They're good. It's tough to trust her to deliver. (Same for Sanders but for slightly different reasons)
In foreign policy, her public persona itself is a problem. And she will have no problems following through.
 
Red Dreams said:
I looked at the Green Party platform today.... ;)

Jill Stein sounds so sensible.
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She does! I've been keeping tabs on her and her party since the 2012 election and they seem to be an astute bunch. Having said that I've always liked Ralph Nader. I think Sanders fits in much more with their ticket than with the Dems.
 
berbatrick said:
I think her campaign positions on domestic policy are fine. They're good. It's tough to trust her to deliver. (Same for Sanders but for slightly different reasons)
In foreign policy, her public persona itself is a problem. And she will have no problems following through.
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Really? One minute she's cold over same-sex marriages the next minute she's all for it. One minute she thinks TPP is the best thing since sliced bread and the next she's skeptical. There are many more examples of her policy stances, domestic included, where she changes her principles based on the tide of progressive opinion.

Hillary vs Hillary would be just a compelling debate as Hillary vs Sanders.
 
Kaos said:
She does! I've been keeping tabs on her and her party since the 2012 election and they seem to be an astute bunch. Having said that I've always liked Ralph Nader. I think Sanders fits in much more with their ticket than with the Dems.
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Indeed. I'm wondering if historically you can put Sanders' domestic policy in line with FDR/LBJ Democrats or if he's leftist enough that he would always have been an independent. His foreign policy rhetoric is definitely way outside the 2-party system.

If he manages to permanently shift the Dems from centre-right into centre-left (like Goldwater's failed run changed Republicans into the party of the south) he would become a historical figure for that alone.
 
Kaos said:
Really? One minute she's cold over same-sex marriages the next minute she's all for it. One minute she thinks TPP is the best thing since sliced bread and the next she's skeptical. There are many more examples of her policy stances, domestic included, where she changes her principles based on the tide of progressive opinion.

Hillary vs Hillary would be just a compelling debate as Hillary vs Sanders.
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Which is why I said campaign positions.

Personally, (based on nothing), I feel she's socially liberal and economically right-wing. She took illiberal stances to please voters, and is now taking economically populist stances for the same reason.
If she sticks to her campaign though, it isn't a bad platform.

But she has donors to please, and a "centre" to pivot to after winning the nomination. And a hateful GOP to deal with. So IMO implementing her positions is almost as much fantasy as for Sanders.




As for Hillary vs Hillary, here it is
 
Kaos said:
Really? One minute she's cold over same-sex marriages the next minute she's all for it. One minute she thinks TPP is the best thing since sliced bread and the next she's skeptical. There are many more examples of her policy stances, domestic included, where she changes her principles based on the tide of progressive opinion.

Hillary vs Hillary would be just a compelling debate as Hillary vs Sanders.
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simply she is after power. The war vote was despicable. agree she will say anything, blame anyone.

She will be better than Trump.

But then, that is not too hard. I still have my doubts about her winning.
 
berbatrick said:
Which is why I said campaign positions.

Personally, (based on nothing), I feel she's socially liberal and economically right-wing. She took illiberal stances to please voters, and is now taking economically populist stances for the same reason.
If she sticks to her campaign though, it isn't a bad platform.

But she has donors to please, and a "centre" to pivot to after winning the nomination. And a hateful GOP to deal with. So IMO implementing her positions is almost as much fantasy as for Sanders.




As for Hillary vs Hillary, here it is
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If she were economically right wing, there would be little Republican opposition to her as opposed to more opposition than any other candidate has ever had.
 
Red Dreams said:
simply she is after power. The war vote was despicable. agree she will say anything, blame anyone.

She will be better than Trump.

But then, that is not too hard. I still have my doubts about her winning.
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All politicians are after power, so that's not really saying much.
 
She'll rule by committee. A Clinton presidency will be in the hands of her advisors with only a cursory input from her. That's not necessarily a bad thing, assuming her advisors are all competent. I think they probably will be.
 
Raoul said:
If she were economically right wing, there would be little Republican opposition to her as opposed to more opposition than any other candidate has ever had.
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Definitions of right-wing are different.
As I acknowledged I'm trying to figure out what she believes as opposed to her policy positions. I believe that she is personally very pro free trade, moderately pro deregulation, moderately pro welfare "reform". She doesn't mind regulations but I think she believes corporate interests should be prioritised over them.

Again, we're arguing her personal beliefs, so it's going to become a pointless argument soon. It's basically what I think about her having read a shit-ton of articles starting from her college days to her current campaign, via child rights lawyer, Arkansas, President Bill Clinton, NY senator, and 2008.
I'm not arguing about the public positions that she has adopted for this campaign, because they contradict with many of her previous stances.
 
Raoul said:
If she were economically right wing, there would be little Republican opposition to her as opposed to more opposition than any other candidate has ever had.
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what does "economically right wing" even mean? that term alone makes any sensible debate impossible, because it doesn´t have a fixed meaning.
 
 
PedroMendez said:
what does "economically right wing" even mean? that term alone makes any sensible debate impossible, because it doesn´t have a fixed meaning.
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Low taxes, pro-deregulation, more emphasis on Wall Street than the middle class.

In terms of American politics, it's relatively fixed.
 
berbatrick said:
Definitions of right-wing are different.
As I acknowledged I'm trying to figure out what she believes as opposed to her policy positions. I believe that she is personally very pro free trade, moderately pro deregulation, moderately pro welfare "reform". She doesn't mind regulations but I think she believes corporate interests should be prioritised over them.

Again, we're arguing her personal beliefs, so it's going to become a pointless argument soon. It's basically what I think about her having read a shit-ton of articles starting from her college days to her current campaign, via child rights lawyer, Arkansas, President Bill Clinton, NY senator, and 2008.
I'm not arguing about the public positions that she has adopted for this campaign, because they contradict with many of her previous stances.
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Indeed. If you begin from a left wing European center then most US politicians will be right wing to you. If you begin with an American center, then Hillary's policies are right smack in the bullseye.
 
PedroMendez said:
what does "economically right wing" even mean? that term alone makes any sensible debate impossible, because it doesn´t have a fixed meaning.
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Its all subjective. For the purpose of discussion, its helpful to look at American norms and not those of people outside the States.
 
Red Dreams said:
except should he be President his goal will be to improve the lives of the middle class and the poor. Hillary's policies will have little impact on those lives. Perhaps preventing them from getting worse.
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Nice brochure. But that doesn't change the fact that all politicians are after power. You're simply ascribing Bernie a separate standard because he's your candidate.
 
New GOP polls today.....all Trump as expected.

Florida Republican Presidential Primary WTSP/Mason-Dixon Trump 36, Rubio 30, Cruz 17, Kasich 8 Trump +6

Florida Republican Presidential Primary Florida Times-Union Trump 43, Rubio 24, Cruz 21, Kasich 10 Trump +19

Florida Republican Presidential Primary Trafalgar Group (R) Trump 42, Rubio 23, Cruz 21, Kasich 11 Trump +19

Illinois Republican Presidential Primary WeAskAmerica Trump 33, Cruz 20, Kasich 18, Rubio 11 Trump +13

North Carolina Republican Presidential Primary High Point University Trump 48, Cruz 28, Rubio 8, Kasich 12 Trump +20

Missouri Republican Presidential Primary Fort Hays St. University Trump 36, Cruz 29, Rubio 9, Kasich 8 Trump +7

Maryland Republican Presidential Primary Baltimore Sun Trump 34, Cruz 25, Kasich 18, Rubio 14 Trump +9
 
Raoul said:
Nice brochure. But that doesn't change the fact that all politicians are after power. You're simply ascribing Bernie a separate standard because he's your candidate.
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I was referring to policies both hold. Sure Bernie is my candidate because i agree with his policies. I just don't see Hillary's policies helping the poor/middle class is all.
 
Red Dreams said:
I was referring to policies both hold. Sure Bernie is my candidate because i agree with his policies. I just don't see Hillary's policies helping the poor/middle class is all.
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Nor will Bernie's when consider that even if elected President, his policies would be blocked. When he gets asked about it, he delusionally suggests that can be averted if there's a "political revolution" that elects Dems into the majority. Well no shit sherlock, by that logic any Dem candidate could get their policies through if they had a Dem Congress. I'm 100% confident that much like Trump, Bernie is winging it and hasn't thought things through to the extent that they are tangibly implementable, which makes him more of a feel good fantasy candidate, than a serious, legitimate one.
 
PedroMendez said:
so was Obama left or right wing in terms of economic policies?
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He brought US economic policies back towards the left from where they once were. You can't expect him to turn America into Denmark in one fell swoop. It's all about him taking steps towards his own ideals.
 
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