Indeed, they'll prove their devotion to liberalism and equality by voting for the man who's been openly nativist and divisive for the past 6+ months on the campaign trail.
2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
- Status
Nixon did try to get a health care bill passed, not sure of the details though.
The funny thing is Nixon wouldn't get anywhere near the republican nomination now days.
and if they stay home instead of voting for her, I hope they aren't shocked when the republican president -
- gets rid of ACA
- appoints a couple of right wing judges to the Supreme Court
- decides to balance the budget by reducing a ton of benefits for the very poor all the while reducing tax for the top 1%
they can always use their principles to pay for medical insurance, I'm sure...it's an acceptable form of currency.
Extremity in defense of Liberty is no vice.
So it has come full circle.
So it has come full circle.
Ooh, feel the Bern!
Trump water, steak and wines! The feck!
scary right?
Speaking for myself. I will not vote against someone. My vote will be For a candidate. But it would be true that there is a possibility that those who do not vote at all for Hillary, because they hate her, or not bothered to show up may in effect bring about a situation where the repercussion may harm them. But lets think. Is this the fault of the voter? or the candidate? If the candidate has not put forward a policy/platform that makes the voter want to pull the lever for him/her it is 100% the fault of the candidate.
Depends on whether you were taking mine at face value or not
For what it's worth I agree that Hillary (and her allies like Bill, Obama, hopefully Sanders) will have to campaign hard for the youth vote to turn out in particular, and their votes shouldn't be taken for granted. I just hate the barely veiled threat of blackmail, particularly when someone as detestable as Trump is the alternative.
Look I don't necessarily disagree with you.
But, did you see how even Rubio said, if Trump ended up winning the nomination, he would support him?
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/...they-will-support-trump-if-he-wins-nomination
See, that's a party looking at the bigger picture and identifying a common 'enemy'.
This makes me sound jaded/cynical - but, also realistic.
People won't understand that Trump is not a right wing nut, he's moderate and he used the attacks on immigration (which needs to be addressed) and the refugees, he received free media attention.
Its just smart. Politics isn't emotion and feel-good, most of it is boring per most people's standards, but its important. Vote your interests (and lets hope they're not super narrow or short-sighted) whenever the opportunity arises, even if that's voting the candidate you detest slightly less. Anything else is just getting taken for a ride.
Exactly.
I respect what you are saying. This is the 'mind set' we need to get rid off. The cynicism is what is destroying this country. We are simply saying."Hey I know I will do feck all for ordinary people. But that guy is going to kill you all. So reward me" You have heard about Protection Money right? The DNC knows full well they are 'on to a winner' with the crazies on the other side. When Hillary can make a man like John Lewis say such awful things about Bernie. And note...she knew what Bernie had done in the 60s..his fight for black people. And yet she used Lewis to attack him. That was despicable. We must Not reward these sort of actions. I will honestly look at both platforms in the GE and vote what I can accept. In the end it is One vote, but it will my honest vote.
@Red Dreams You are way too over the top full of positivity in anything related to Trump. It's almost like a tunnel vission of seeing the glass half full anyhow.
you are wrong.
The problem with Hillary is not that her rhetoric is too centrist. The problem is, that you can´t believe a single word of her message. The lesser of two evil argument makes some sense, especially because of potential supreme court justices. Still it is not great to follow that logic in the long run.
The NYT published a couple of articles about HC´s connection to BlackRock and those article showcase fairly well the problem with her: In the end someone who paid to have access to her will be able to get his legislation.
The NYT published a couple of articles about HC´s connection to BlackRock and those article showcase fairly well the problem with her: In the end someone who paid to have access to her will be able to get his legislation.
wrong.
He is far less dangerous than Cruz (we can dispense with the others) a few of us on here think he is a moderate in disguise. That does not mean I will vote for him.
Yes! A new name to compete with GS in the public's lingo about Wall Street?!
Edited the post to what i meant but you are way too optimistic about anything related to trump which isn't borne out by actual stats coming out or his behavior or his core support base or parties reaction to him or really anything much substantive.
To summarize what i have read is - He wins every debate and almost every exchange in the debate, any scrutiny however negative and true will help him further, He will shift left to Hillary somehow and win Sanders' progressive voters and at the same time He will also unify the republican party despite many voters already hating him for the vile statements and tactics which his core base loves. Also he will have to be supported by a republican senate due to the down ticket thing when infact it could hurt republicans on the down ticket etc.. etc...
@FromTheBench , you need to understand that Red Dreams is a man of positive ideas. Positive about Bernie, positive about democracy, positive about the people, etc. But if conservatives are the topic of discussion, then he has nothing positive to say about them.
@FromTheBench , you need to understand that Red Dreams is a man of positive ideas. Positive about Bernie, positive about democracy, positive about the people, etc. But if conservatives are the topic of discussion, then he has nothing positive to say about them.
I won't mention who I said this to. But I said though I do not agree with you I think you are good lad.
I can respect people who are conservative. Religious. But do we really think Cruz represents them? Everything he stands for hurts them. In fact if it was Bernie v Cruz I have this vision of the scene from the Exorcist. The old priest( Bernie) standing and looking at the statue of Satan (Cruz).
Way over the top comparison but I refer to you the Hitler NYT article posted few pages back about how he was also only masquerading to be anti semitic.
Anyway addressed this point before but even if he pivots to the left in a general he'd be seen with distrust by the more liberal/progressive people and minorities due to his core support base and rhetoric on which he has won that support to begin with.
The only thing he will have common with some of sanders support base will be the anti free trade agreement rhetoric and outsider tag but young americans generally are more progressive/liberal on social issues as per studies and i don't know how he overcomes that with independents and dems especially.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/2016-us-presidential-elections.403345/page-237#post-18887798
Also Addressed it a bit here.
And i agree on Cruz being predictably devious but Trump probably has a even lower potential downside though a potential bigger upside as well. It's just unpredictable totally. You just choose to see the positive side of it only.
I think he will shift to the left of Hillary, because he has said so...in a Republican debate. (health Care/Money from special interests/ jobs) Now you can say they are all lies. But lets wait and see his platform. The republican party will obviously get behind their nominee unless they are intent on just handing over the presidency to the Dems. I have no idea about Bernie voters voting for him. some may, some may not. If he is not elected , then the down ticket argument will be mote.
Way over the top comparison but I refer to you the Hitler NYT article posted few pages back about how he was also only masquerading to be anti semitic.
Anyway addressed this point before but even if he pivots to the left in a general he'd be seen with distrust by the more liberal/progressive people and minorities due to his core support base and rhetoric on which he has won that support to begin with.
The only thing he will have common with some of sanders support base will be the anti free trade agreement rhetoric and outsider tag but young americans generally are more progressive/liberal on social issues as per studies and i don't know how he overcomes that with independents and dems especially.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/2016-us-presidential-elections.403345/page-237#post-18887798
Also Addressed it a bit here.
And i agree on Cruz being predictably devious but Trump probably has a even lower potential downside though a potential bigger upside as well. It's just unpredictable totally. You just choose to see the positive side of it only.
tbh we don't know what he will do or what he really means. The speculation he is moderate comes from what he has said before he ran. He may well believe what he is saying, which means he will be toast.
EDIT:
I honestly do not see how Cruz can be more viable in the GE. He is a far right T party guy. inflexible on LGBT, Women's rights...I mean why the GOP would rather him. Unless they think they can control him.
Last edited:
How he comes away from that wall bit will be funny to see. But he apparently has made off the record statements he does not mean it.
I won't mention who I said this to. But I said though I do not agree with you I think you are good lad.
I can respect people who are conservative. Religious. But do we really think Cruz represents them? Everything he stands for hurts them. In fact if it was Bernie v Cruz I have this vision of the scene from the Exorcist. The old priest( Bernie) standing and looking at the statue of Satan (Cruz).
What amuses me about Cruz (I'm past the point of being upset at these elections) is that for someone who's such an experienced and well-schooled lawyer (Harvard), he comes out with some really bone-headed stuff even within the realm of the law. So either he has all the experience and schooling and is still a bad lawyer, or what I think is most likely, he's fully aware that he's about to spew some toxic BS, but still just goes and says it repeatedly.
Law is a nuanced subject, pretty much its entire purpose is to debate and attempt to arrive at decisions/justice through logic. There is no nuance to Ted Cruz, 0. He will not waver on any of his positions, big or small, or pretty much even acknowledge that there is a potential debate.
I'm interested (in a curiosity sense) to see if the Harvard lawyer side ever comes out, even for a second. He sure hides it well, dissing NY's values and generally appearing to be a run-of-the-mill bonehead conservative, when we know full well he spent a good amount of his life at Princeton, Harvard and D.C., where I'm sure he came into contact with more liberals than conservatives.
McCain said of him...and others too. He is a brilliant man. He obviously must be. He has his Conservative/Evanglical voters locked. He knows so long as he says things they want to hear, he will get their vote. He also has cultivated this anti-establishment side of his rhetoric. The angry T party voter who blame the Republican Senate and Congress for caving in to Obama's polices. So he has his power base.
Yeah but he's almost universally hated. It's no secret none of the other Senators like him, or any other Republican, I've seen many interviews where people have said he was a loner at uni and also disliked by nearly everyone who knew him then. It's entirely possible he has spent his whole life being hated by the vast majority of people he has come in contact with.
I saw this youtube video of his daughter pushing him away as he was trying to hug her. It was disturbing.
Kids know.
Kids know.
Poor Little Marco...this is in Hialeah, Florida - 75% Cuban.
A good point made here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersFor...ll_33_of_sanders_supporters_wouldnt_vote_for/
Given that a large part of his support are independents, it makes sense that all won't back Hillary come November.
Given that a large part of his support are independents, it makes sense that all won't back Hillary come November.
I had dinner with a relative last night, a Trump supporter. (I would deport Trump to hell.)
She conceded that Trump had "Hitler-like tendencies". She conceded that Trump has been a liberal Democrat most of his life and has been a major funder of the Clintons for the last 25 years. She conceded that Trump is an unprincipled liar. She conceded that deporting 11m Mexicans would be insane. She doesn't even like the idea of a big, beautiful wall. She knows Trump stands for nothing. She has no idea what he would really do if elected potus.
"Then why would you vote for him?", I asked.
"Because he would take down the establishment."
Realizing I was talking to a lunatic, I asked her if she thought Obama was an American: "No, he was born in Kenya. His birth certificate is fake." I asked he if she thought Obama was a Christian. "No, he's a Muslim.
I'm not going to argue that every Trump supporter understands that he's a fraud and they all believe Obama is a Muslim from Kenya, but I guarantee you that every American who believes Obama is a Muslim from Kenya supports Trump and there are a lot of Americans who believe this shit.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...bama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html
We are witnessing the collapse -- or perhaps merely the revelation of a collapse that happened long ago -- of the ability of millions of Americans to process simple thoughts. In a normal world, it should not be possible for a voter to vote for someone you know to have no principles, who would infringe on your personal freedoms and who has no coherent policy agenda whatsoever. Yet here we are, millions of Americans are ready to hand him the most powerful job on earth.
All to "take down the establishment", of which Trump is the very epicenter. Unbelievable.
She conceded that Trump had "Hitler-like tendencies". She conceded that Trump has been a liberal Democrat most of his life and has been a major funder of the Clintons for the last 25 years. She conceded that Trump is an unprincipled liar. She conceded that deporting 11m Mexicans would be insane. She doesn't even like the idea of a big, beautiful wall. She knows Trump stands for nothing. She has no idea what he would really do if elected potus.
"Then why would you vote for him?", I asked.
"Because he would take down the establishment."
Realizing I was talking to a lunatic, I asked her if she thought Obama was an American: "No, he was born in Kenya. His birth certificate is fake." I asked he if she thought Obama was a Christian. "No, he's a Muslim.
I'm not going to argue that every Trump supporter understands that he's a fraud and they all believe Obama is a Muslim from Kenya, but I guarantee you that every American who believes Obama is a Muslim from Kenya supports Trump and there are a lot of Americans who believe this shit.
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/...bama-is-a-muslim-born-in-another-country.html
We are witnessing the collapse -- or perhaps merely the revelation of a collapse that happened long ago -- of the ability of millions of Americans to process simple thoughts. In a normal world, it should not be possible for a voter to vote for someone you know to have no principles, who would infringe on your personal freedoms and who has no coherent policy agenda whatsoever. Yet here we are, millions of Americans are ready to hand him the most powerful job on earth.
All to "take down the establishment", of which Trump is the very epicenter. Unbelievable.
My sympathies @Spock
While we are free to choose our friends, we csnt say the same for our families near and distant... Who are in the end, our burdens for life
While we are free to choose our friends, we csnt say the same for our families near and distant... Who are in the end, our burdens for life
Get ready Bros....Hillary v Bernie starting now.
- Status