2016 US Presidential Elections | Trump Wins

Status
Not open for further replies.
Marco Rubiobot has been glitching again :lol:

Marco Rubio, Lampooned for Repeating Himself, Does It Again
8:45 pm ET8:45 pm ET
Jeremy W. Peters and Alex Thompson
09firstdraft-rubio-2-tmagArticle.jpg

Senator Marco Rubio campaigned in Nashua, N.H., on Monday.Credit Hilary Swift for The New York Times
MANCHESTER, N.H. – Maybe it was just the end of a long, tiring day of campaigning. Or maybe Senator Marco Rubio’s opponents have gotten into his head.

But on Monday, Mr. Rubio, the Florida Republican, who has been under relentless criticism for uttering his talking points over and over in Saturday’s presidential debate, had another repetitious lapse.

Speaking to a crowd in Nashua, he was lamenting the decline in American family values.

Then he lamented the decline in American values again.

This is what he said verbatim, as his wife and four children looked on:

“We are taking our message to families that are struggling to raise their children in the 21st century because, as you saw, Jeanette and I are raising our four children in the 21st century, and we know how hard it’s become to instill our values in our kids instead of the values they try to ram down our throats.

“In the 21st century, it’s becoming harder than ever to instill in your children the values they teach in our homes and in our church instead of the values that they try to ram down our throats in the movies, in music, in popular culture.”

Mr. Rubio appeared to notice his own echo: As he repeated the word “throats,” he caught himself, but proceeded to the end of his sentence nonetheless.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/fir...ned-for-repeating-himself-does-it-again/?_r=0
Click to expand...
 
Neutral said:
If Hillary ended up closing the gap to only 9, it would be a 'moral' victory for her and pretty disappointing for Sanders (well as disappointing as a win could ever be :lol:)
Click to expand...

TIME thinks so, too.

Though that's probably a problem more for Donald than Sanders, since he's actively talked himself into this predicament. When you consistently describe upper-bound projections as your expected outcome, an average-to-fairly-good outcome will end up hurting you, too, as it did in Iowa. Of course, a Trump who doesn't do WINNING! doesn't go anywhere in the first place, though.

MarceloFalcon said:
About point 2., there is no free lunch and there is no employer just eating the payroll tax bill, just smiling and paying everything they would to the employee. If you eliminated it I won't argue that everyone would get a raise on day one, but in a heated job market employers would soon have to offer those higher wages, and would find enough margin to do it.

On point 3., don't think the US would suffer as much as some other countries would for doing the same. It is a valuable nationality to have, and although there were record numbers recently, 3,000 people in a sea of 320m isn't really relevant. That said, one main point about all the economic discussion going on nowadays is that it is very much not the 60s anymore. Middle-class America used to work in factories or companies that managed factories that made things as simple as toilets, furniture, clothing, light-bulbs, basic metalwork, etc. And they'd work those jobs all their lives, get their raises and benefits through union negotiations. That's all gone, its not coming back, and it wouldn't be to the US's benefit if it came back. The sooner people realize that the stable middle-class of the 60s, 70s and 80s is gone because those lower value-added activities are gone, the sooner they'll stop thinking it was the government that did it to them.
Click to expand...

2., absolutely, agreed.

3., well, the surprising rate at which the figures have been growing (4.3k from about 200 in 2008), and the clear correlation with regulatory requirements such as FATCA, leads me to think that it's still something that politicians need to account for, though. On the assumption that most if not all of these 4k emigrants are high-net-worth-individuals such as Eduardo Saverin (who saved $700m by dropping American citizenship, reportedly), that would have an outsize impact on America beyond their absolute numbers.

But I take your larger point and it's a fair one - 4k out of 320m is still relatively small.
 
naturalized said:
3. Charitable relative to Eisenhower, I think, does not well address my point that this is no longer the 60s, few other countries have tax rates comparable to this, and I'd be curious how Sanders proposes to prevent citizens from leaving to avoid his taxes, or whether he considers it a problem. I should note that Americans giving up their citizenship for tax reasons has hit record figures for the last three years consecutively.
Click to expand...

Just found this on BBC. Quite interesting. http://www.bbc.com/news/35383435

Its almost draconian, heavy-handed to say the least. As a Brazilian thankfully I just informed that I was no longer a resident so they can only tax any investment income I still make there and not what I make working in the US.

EDIT: Besides people renouncing like Saverin you pointed out, there's people like me who are immigrants. I might prefer to go to Singapore or something like for some years, to pay less taxes and therefore accumulate more savings, and then later look to migrate to the US, UK, or another higher tax location with those savings, and now only pay the higher taxes on the return of those.

Your original point stands imo, its not ideal to tax so highly in today's world where other options are open to americans and non-americans.
 
Last edited:
So Rubio's gone from being the new favourite with momentum to in danger of finishing 4th. A week really is a long time in politics. Still, his strength elsewhere means he's still in with a shot.
 
Ubik said:
So Rubio's gone from being the new favourite with momentum to in danger of finishing 4th. A week really is a long time in politics. Still, his strength elsewhere means he's still in with a shot.
Click to expand...

Do you think Jeb! can still do it? If Rubio keeps stumbling then the establishment may as well rally behind him. Christie and Kasich aren't really inspirational.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Do you think Jeb! can still do it? If Rubio keeps stumbling then the establishment may as well rally behind him. Christie and Kasich aren't really inspirational.
Click to expand...
You never quite know with his backing (both financial and otherwise), his unfavourables look hard to return from but if he does somehow manage to finish 2nd the narrative might turn that way and people might take another look. Would be quite funny after everything on both the Democrat and GOP side if we still end up with Clinton vs Bush :lol:
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Do you think Jeb! can still do it? If Rubio keeps stumbling then the establishment may as well rally behind him. Christie and Kasich aren't really inspirational.
Click to expand...

Kasich isnt inspirational, but he is their best hope at winning a national election at this point, he actually makes sense when he talks.
 
ravi2 said:
Kasich isnt inspirational, but he is their best hope at winning a national election at this point, he actually makes sense when he talks.
Click to expand...

They have to either make a run for the base, or try to bring minorities into the fold. Kasich does neither. For all his failings, Jeb! should do better than Romney with Hispanics and W was the last GOPer who got a fair chunk of the black vote.

Whoever the GOP nominee will be, his priority won't be in appealing to liberals.
 
Theory: the NH(R) moderate vote being essentially a coordination problem between four reasonably well-qualified and relatively fungible candidates, is it possible that the electorate, their minds concentrated by the spectre of Cruz and Trump, will search for objective factors to coalesce their vote around, and thereby ultimately return to Rubio? I think the latest "scandal" about his roboticism, while hilarious, is overstated and unlikely to resound with actual voters.

I suspect this happened in Iowa - don't remember any particularly strong narratives around him then, so I suspect this thought process or some form of it may explain his surprising victory there.

Complete guesswork with no source and likely to make me look stupid in a few hours time (is it snowing there, btw?):
NH(R) turnout: 260-280k
Trump: 20-24%
Rubio: 17-21% (making him the "winner")
Kasich: 13-17%
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Do you think Jeb! can still do it? If Rubio keeps stumbling then the establishment may as well rally behind him. Christie and Kasich aren't really inspirational.
Click to expand...

Jeb has too much burden on him and isn't inspirational either.

I think still Rubio is Repubs best bet blunder aside. Infact won't be surprised if he finishes better than expected today due to anti trump vote having to gather somewhere.
 
This robot thing has a lot of mileage in it. I think he's going to get a lot of robot-based pisstakes over the coming months.
 
naturalized said:
Theory: the NH(R) moderate vote being essentially a coordination problem between four reasonably well-qualified and relatively fungible candidates, is it possible that the electorate, their minds concentrated by the spectre of Cruz and Trump, will search for objective factors to coalesce their vote around, and thereby ultimately return to Rubio? I think the latest "scandal" about his roboticism, while hilarious, is overstated and unlikely to resound with actual voters.

I suspect this happened in Iowa - don't remember any particularly strong narratives around him then, so I suspect this thought process or some form of it may explain his surprising victory there.

Complete guesswork with no source and likely to make me look stupid in a few hours time (is it snowing there, btw?):
NH(R) turnout: 260-280k
Trump: 20-24%
Rubio: 17-21% (making him the "winner")
Kasich: 13-17%
Click to expand...
Rubio was the obvious establishment choice for Iowa though, the only game in town so to speak. Whether his glitch is fatal is indeed questionable, but it adds a pretty big question mark over his ability as a candidate, and when Bush and Kasich are also riding higher than usual according to the polls, whilst also being genuinely more moderate, I'm not sure his top end will be quite that high. Who knows though, I was wrong about him in Iowa.
 
Grinner said:
This robot thing has a lot of mileage in it. I think he's going to get a lot of robot-based pisstakes over the coming months.
Click to expand...

One strong debate performance and he'd probably be mostly over it. He needs field to thin out though.

Btw, curious what the reaction would have been had he turned around and said he accepted that Christie got better of him, and that he's only human etc.. vis a vis the defiant stand taken.
 
FromTheBench said:
One strong debate performance and he'd probably be mostly over it. He needs field to thin out though.

Btw, curious what the reaction would have been had he turned around and said he accepted that Christie got better of him, and that he's only human etc.. vis a vis the defiant stand taken.
Click to expand...
Would be an unfortunate way to put it.
 
Exit polls say almost 50% of Repub voters made their mind up "recently". Not good news for Trump, who's supporters tend to be those who made up their minds early.
 
senorgregster said:
I'm surprised Christie's numbers didn't improve more after the last debate.
Click to expand...

I am not sure his attacks on Rubio played well with Conservatives. I know I lost some respect for Christie in that debate. If he sticks to his own message he comes off quite good, but the endless attacks on Rubio is growing a little thin.
 
MarceloFalcon said:
Most people are angry... rawr! I get angry too sometimes, but I try to avoid important decisions at the same time.

Also, 5% unemployment... angry! I guess its totally irrelevant that I find it petty, because this elections is going to come down to the anger by the looks of it.
Click to expand...

the anger is at government/politicians..meaning your establishment politicians. People's lives have not improved.

btw we may have record turnouts. Huge or I should say uuuuuuge first time voters. both good news for Trump and Sanders.

early indications Kasich has done very well.
 
Red Dreams said:
the anger is at government/politicians..meaning your establishment politicians. People's lives have not improved.

btw we may have record turnouts. Huge or I should say uuuuuuge first time voters. both good news for Trump and Sanders.

early indications Kasich has done very well.
Click to expand...

I know what they're angry at, I just think they're buying a narrative that doesn't match up to reality. The world I've grown up in is in constant improvement, most notably how the internet and connectivity have made us brutally efficient in day-to-day tasks and given us more access to information than anyone of any position living up to 1995 had.

Anyways, hope Kasich does well. Too much to hope Jeb does well too?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.