‘Successful’ scenarios for Summer ‘23

Drizzle said:
Thanks. So in summary, in your opinion how much can we realistically spend this summer?
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Honestly depends on ownership, SJR or SJ probably £250-300m as they could wipe the debts instantly and pay £60m into the club as a working capital quite easily, if the Glaziers stay, even with investment maybe £100-150m net max after player sales, next year half that figure!
 
I want:
Gvardiol — 100m
Timber — 60m
Kovacic — 40m
Ahmedhodzic — 35m
Ferguson — 35m
Wout — 20m
Raya — 15m

Sell:
AWB — 30m
Maguire — 20m
Lindelof — 35m (lower wages and younger than HM)
McTominay — 20m
Elanga — 15m
Dean Henderson — 20m

ST: Martial/Ferguson/WW
LW: Rash/Garnacho
RW: Antony/Diallo
AMC: Bruno/Sancho
MC: Eriksen/Kovacic/Fred
DMC: Casemiro/Kovacic
LB: Shaw/Malacia
LCB: Martinez/Gvardiol
RCB: Varane/Ahmedhodzic
RB: Dalot/Timber
GK: DDG/Raya

This would give up the following rotating squad basically:
Ferguson
Garnacho-Sancho-Diallo
Fred-Kovacic
Malacia-Gvardiol-Ahmedhodzic-Timber
Raya

Not a starting XI, but I don’t think ETH would be afraid of doing any rotating with those names. And a lot of those players have great versatility.
 
Woziak said:
Kane will be far more difficult to get, Levy starting position would be Maguire and Henderson plus £125m even with one year left on Kane contract!
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There is no way Kane is more expensive than Osimhen from Napoli. Kane will be £75m, Osimhen £150m+.

Also, why are people saying £35m for Ferguson? Has he got a release clause? If not, he’s probably already £50m to get from Brighton.
 
Messier1994 said:
I want:
Gvardiol — 100m
Timber — 60m
Kovacic — 40m
Ahmedhodzic — 35m
Ferguson — 35m
Wout — 20m
Raya — 15m

Sell:
AWB — 30m
Maguire — 20m
Lindelof — 35m (lower wages and younger than HM)
McTominay — 20m
Elanga — 15m
Dean Henderson — 20m

ST: Martial/Ferguson/WW
LW: Rash/Garnacho
RW: Antony/Diallo
AMC: Bruno/Sancho
MC: Eriksen/Kovacic/Fred
DMC: Casemiro/Kovacic
LB: Shaw/Malacia
LCB: Martinez/Gvardiol
RCB: Varane/Ahmedhodzic
RB: Dalot/Timber
GK: DDG/Raya

This would give up the following rotating squad basically:
Ferguson
Garnacho-Sancho-Diallo
Fred-Kovacic
Malacia-Gvardiol-Ahmedhodzic-Timber
Raya

Not a starting XI, but I don’t think ETH would be afraid of doing any rotating with those names. And a lot of those players have great versatility.
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Kovacic? Yeah you definitely deserve a tagline.
 
Striker, a central midfielder + Sabitzer perm is probably what were looking at. Don't envision a big summer with FFP etc.
 
croadyman said:
Still need a backup CB,also a RB who is able to defend but an attacking threat too
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I think we should look for Ferguson as striker, costa as GK, Timber as CB ...can also play RB, plus kovacic as midfielder.......if ten haag wants an attacking midfielder as well then sign Mohammed kudus...sell maguire,hendo,Brandon,telles,baily,donny van de beek,mctominay,elanga......tuanzebe and jones out for free.... possibility of getting more than 100 mil from sales I reckon....
 
mainoo era said:
I think we should look for Ferguson as striker, costa as GK, Timber as CB ...can also play RB, plus kovacic as midfielder.......if ten haag wants an attacking midfielder as well then sign Mohammed kudus...sell maguire,hendo,Brandon,telles,baily,donny van de beek,mctominay,elanga......tuanzebe and jones out for free.... possibility of getting more than 100 mil from sales I reckon....
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Agree with some of those choices,however don't think Ferguson is ready to be a starter striker yet
 
Messier1994 said:
I want:
Gvardiol — 100m
Timber — 60m
Kovacic — 40m
Ahmedhodzic — 35m
Ferguson — 35m
Wout — 20m
Raya — 15m

Sell:
AWB — 30m
Maguire — 20m
Lindelof — 35m (lower wages and younger than HM)
McTominay — 20m
Elanga — 15m
Dean Henderson — 20m

ST: Martial/Ferguson/WW
LW: Rash/Garnacho
RW: Antony/Diallo
AMC: Bruno/Sancho
MC: Eriksen/Kovacic/Fred
DMC: Casemiro/Kovacic
LB: Shaw/Malacia
LCB: Martinez/Gvardiol
RCB: Varane/Ahmedhodzic
RB: Dalot/Timber
GK: DDG/Raya

This would give up the following rotating squad basically:
Ferguson
Garnacho-Sancho-Diallo
Fred-Kovacic
Malacia-Gvardiol-Ahmedhodzic-Timber
Raya

Not a starting XI, but I don’t think ETH would be afraid of doing any rotating with those names. And a lot of those players have great versatility.
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Absolutely do not want to go into another season with Martial as our most recognised striker.

Kovacic is a good shout if he wants out of Chelsea though.

Also not sure many of those you've mentioned would be happy to be rotated when they are key players for their current (decent sized) clubs (Timber/Gvardiol)

For me a successful summer would be:

One of Kane/Osimhen
A young and highly rated prospect striker as capable back up (Ferguson/Hojlund/Sesko)
Sabitzer loan made permanent
A young and highly rated prospect centre back (A. Silva?)
One of Raya/Costa

Probably need another central midfielder too. The dream would be FdJ or Bellingham but I don't see either ending up here unfortunately.
 
Dream (but also unrealistic) scenario:

GK: Net spend £45m and wage bill reduced

In:
Diogo Costa (23) (release clause) £65m
New backup (Bosman or undisclosed fee)

Out:
Henderson £20m
De Gea (free)

Central defence: Break even

In:
Kim Min-Jae (26) (release clause) £42m
Evan Ndicka (23) (Bosman)

Out:
Maguire £20m
Lindelof £20m
Bailly
Tuanzebe
Jones

Fullback: Break even
In: Frimpong? (22) £25m

Out:
AWB £18m
Telles £7m
Williams

Central midfield: Net spend ~£60m

In:
Spend of £90m. Possibles:
De Jong £60m
Caicedo £60m
Neves £30m
Lavia £25m
Sabitzer £20m

Out:
McTominay £15m
Van de Beek £15m

Striker: Net spend ~£90m

In:
Possibles:
Kane
Osimhen
Ferguson
Hojlund
Thuram (free)
Dembele (free)

Out:
Martial £15m
Elanga £10m
Weghorst

Overall net spend of ~£200m
 
I think we’ll make 3 signings.

A number 9 is obvs a priority - I’d want Kane, and with a year left on his contract and with the current shit show of a circus at Spurs, and his age - now is the time to get him. Levy is terrible to deal with but he’s a business man and he’ll know that now is the time to sell a depreciating asset for a decent fee rather than let him walk on a free the summer after.

A creative midfielder to replace Eriksen in the starting line up - think ETH has a boner for FDJ and he’s a great player, but dealing with Barca is a nightmare. Who knows whether that would ever happen as they could string us along all summer and then we end up with no one or paying over the odds for Mason fecking Mount. Sabitzer to be made permanent too.

Finally a right back as we absolutely cannot go into a new season with Dalot or Wan Bissaka starting matches - both are the weakest links in our current back 4, this needs addressing. As to who - maybe ETH will raid Ajax again for Timber as he can play there and also will provide cover at CB, other than that— maybe Lorenzo from Napoli. As for ones that need selling - feck Henderson off, Maguire has to go and not need to prove himself at Villa or somewhere that befits him, Martial needs putting out of his misery and McTominay can do one too.
 
WhyYouGottaBeSoRuud? said:
Absolutely do not want to go into another season with Martial as our most recognised striker.

Kovacic is a good shout if he wants out of Chelsea though.

Also not sure many of those you've mentioned would be happy to be rotated when they are key players for their current (decent sized) clubs (Timber/Gvardiol)

For me a successful summer would be:

One of Kane/Osimhen
A young and highly rated prospect striker as capable back up (Ferguson/Hojlund/Sesko)
Sabitzer loan made permanent
A young and highly rated prospect centre back (A. Silva?)
One of Raya/Costa

Probably need another central midfielder too. The dream would be FdJ or Bellingham but I don't see either ending up here unfortunately.
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Yes definitely need a partner for Casa because would like to keep Sabitzer,however don't think he's the right profile to compliment him
 
Woziak said:
V Osimhen £120m
S De Vrij or C Smalling - Free yes we could resign him as a stop gap plus he’s always been miles better than Maguire and Lindelof as a pure defender
N’golo Kante or Rabiot - Free
Ascensio or Tielemans - Free
Reus, Zaha or Dembelle - Free
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We all know Ten Hag likes ball playing CBs. Smalling is by far the worst United CB I've seen with the ball at his feet. His touch is woeful, his passing ability is that of a League 1 defender and his lack of pace would be significantly exposed in a team that plays a high defensive line.

I don't care how skint we are, there's absolutely no way Ten Hag is bringing back Chris Smallling, even under the premise of being an emergency backup. He would sooner select a random kid from the academy at CB.
 
Let’s say there is a ~£250m budget this summer, for example we are given £150m plus players totalling £115m (see below).

Sales = McTominay (£25m), Henderson (£20m), Dalot or AWB (£20m), Elanga (£15m), DVB (£10m), Lindelof or Maguire (£25m) = £115m

Below are a load of options we’ve been linked to over the past year or so across the positions I think we can all agree are the priority this summer. How would you spend the budget? (max 6 signings)

GK options
Costa (£65m), Raya (£25m), Verbruggen (£15m)

RB options
Frimpong (£35m), Dumfries (£35m), Kyle Walker-Peters (£35m)

CB options
Kim Min-Jae (£45m), Antonio Silva (£60m), Timber (£50m), Disasi (£45m), Inacio (£30m), Lukeba (£30m), Ndicka (free)

DM/CM/AM options
Bellingham (£110m), Frenkie (£85m), Rice (£75m), Caicedo (£70m), Kudus (£60m), Bennacer (£45m), Lavia (£40m), Ugarte (£35m), Kovacic (£35m), Le Fee (£25m), Rabiot (free), Kamada (free)

CF options
Osimhen (£130m), Kane (£100m), Ramos (£90m), Kolo Muani (£90m), Ferguson (£60m), Toney (£60m), Hojland (£40m), Thuram (free)


Dream = Costa, Frimpong, Kim, Frenkie, Rabiot, Hojland = £270m

no Frenkie = Costa, Frimpong, Kim, Bennacer, Lavia, Hojland = £270m
 
Well at this point we all need to accept somebody like de jong aint coming here. Generally I dont care because he knows the types of players he wants and the way he wants to play his football so Im fine with some unknown signings that fit his style. Ideally yeah I would like somebody like de jong, kane, rice, gvardiol and prehaps bellingham but we are just not in a position to get any of those.

The getting rid of list some of you say is fairly unrealistic and we cant get rid of every single player that prehaps isnt "United calibre" because we still need a squad.
On a final note promoting a young CB from the youth ranks and telling Lindelof to f... off somewhere where they play fairy football would be an ideal scenario for me.
 
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Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
I think the next few weeks of PL action will dictate our transfer strategy. I am looking at value options so we can improve the squad in as many areas without spunking £60m - £100m on each area and leaving us to be able to buy on big ticket item.
  • Firstly, do Spurs get top four? If not, Kane is a bigger possibility and I think will be on the move. It would be prudent to not lay all of our eggs in his basket as he might decide (through blind loyalty) to stay. If not, then go all out for Osimhen, the types of goals he is scoring, especially in the air, are a match made in heaven for PL football. Looks a handful and I'd like an exciting signing like this.
  • Secondly, who is getting relegated? As unlikely as it seems, teams like West Ham, So'Ton, Leicester, and Everton are all in the mix. If one or more of these teams goes down, then we need to consider one or two of these players. It won't happen but if WHU gets dragged into the muck then I say a cut-price deal for Rice is worth it. At the prices muted when they were mid-table - forget it! But if they were to go down, £50m for a very decent, solid, no.8, homegrown would be worth it for sure. Now is he a unique, generational talent? I don't think so but he is a big upgrade on McTominay.
  • Southampton has some intriguing players, Lavia and JWP for me both look like decent squad options. I really want to reiterate these are squad options to replace our sub-par squad options.
  • We need CB with Maguire going and Jones moving on. Leaves us with Licha, Rafa, and Vic. A fourth CB, younger, who can cover 55+ games would be worthwhile. Marc Guehi? Tomori?
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I’d like to see what heights JWP could hit with top players around him.
 
This is an ever revolving door who would have thought of R Hojlund last week so there has to be some opportunity this summer ;

For me I don’t care who goes and for how much ; it’s clear we need to get rid of the following in this order ; P Jones, A Teles, E Bailey, D Henderson, B Williams, A Elanga, H Maguire, S McTominay or Fred (but one has to go), I would also sell H Mejbri and tell Weghorst very politely sorry your not got us ?

The undecided are A Martial and Greenwood, yes we should sell but he needs to play in pre season to be able to get some value on him. My point is we will struggle to sell A Martial and maybe be better leaving him for in the squad for this season if he comes good in last two months of season.

What could we raise for all those players leaving, who knows but the wages with De Gea new contract would reduce by - 1.5bn per week when you add in Ronaldo being taken off the wage bill. Assuming we get £100m in player sales and add the normal £150m we can spend £250m in the summer ;

- D Costa - 65M
- Dumfries - £35M
- k Min Jae - £43M
- Rabiot (Free)
- Sabitzer - £20M
- Kudas - £50M
- R Hojlund £45M

Young additions and great value plus Martial has a lifeline with R Hojlund competition plus we can tell Kaine to stay where he is for one season and will pay him £500k per week next year or Alternatively offer A Martial and D Henderson plus £50m for Kaine.
 
Woziak said:
This is an ever revolving door who would have thought of R Hojlund last week so there has to be some opportunity this summer ;

For me I don’t care who goes and for how much ; it’s clear we need to get rid of the following in this order ; P Jones, A Teles, E Bailey, D Henderson, B Williams, A Elanga, H Maguire, S McTominay or Fred (but one has to go), I would also sell H Mejbri and tell Weghorst very politely sorry your not got us ?

The undecided are A Martial and Greenwood, yes we should sell but he needs to play in pre season to be able to get some value on him. My point is we will struggle to sell A Martial and maybe be better leaving him for in the squad for this season if he comes good in last two months of season.

What could we raise for all those players leaving, who knows but the wages with De Gea new contract would reduce by - 1.5bn per week when you add in Ronaldo being taken off the wage bill. Assuming we get £100m in player sales and add the normal £150m we can spend £250m in the summer ;

- D Costa - 65M
- Dumfries - £35M
- k Min Jae - £43M
- Rabiot (Free)
- Sabitzer - £20M
- Kudas - £50M
- R Hojlund £45M

Young additions and great value plus Martial has a lifeline with R Hojlund competition plus we can tell Kaine to stay where he is for one season and will pay him £500k per week next year or Alternatively offer A Martial and D Henderson plus £50m for Kaine.
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I understand your thinking. But you're mortgaging our hopes for a title/cl push on a young 20 year old with a few months of Serie A experience. Because if he takes a while to adapt, or just isn't as good as we hoped, then forget a title push because we're back to hoping that perma-crock Martial can play more than the odd game for us.

We need to spend bigger to get someone relatively proven.
 
We need to create a team that can keep possession while remaining attack minded.

Felix - 100m
Kovacic - 45m
Timber - 60m
Raya - 20m

Felix
Rahsford Sancho Bruno
Kovacic Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Varane Timber
Raya
​
 
Drizzle said:
I understand your thinking. But you're mortgaging our hopes for a title/cl push on a young 20 year old with a few months of Serie A experience. Because if he takes a while to adapt, or just isn't as good as we hoped, then forget a title push because we're back to hoping that perma-crock Martial can play more than the odd game for us.

We need to spend bigger to get someone relatively proven.
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I totally agree but under the premise that the Glaziers are in charge can you honestly see the club negotiating the sale of V Osimhen or H Kane for £100-140m quickly and before pre season, I can’t !
 
With the links to Kane today I’m a bit concerned that ETH’s building a team that lacks pace. Looking at lot of his signings and targets so far (Arnautovic, Rabiot, Weghorst etc.), it seems that he doesn’t put a lot of emphasis on speed which is fine as it’s not the be all and end all but it’s not something you can completely neglect in the premier league. LVG completely stripped us of our speed when he joined which was a big mistake, I’m hoping we don’t go down the same route. You only have to look at Arsenal to see how they benefit from having pacey players in every area of the pitch. I hope that’s something we look to emulate this summer.
 
OL29 said:
With the links to Kane today I’m a bit concerned that ETH’s building a team that lacks pace. Looking at lot of his signings and targets so far (Arnautovic, Rabiot, Weghorst etc.), it seems that he doesn’t put a lot of emphasis on speed which is fine as it’s not the be all and end all but it’s not something you can completely neglect in the premier league. LVG completely stripped us of our speed when he joined which was a big mistake, I’m hoping we don’t go down the same route. You only have to look at Arsenal to see how they benefit from having pacey players in every area of the pitch. I hope that’s something we look to emulate this summer.
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RVP wasn’t fast and still won us the league. Regardless, he will have speed surrounding him with Rashford/Garnacho, Bruno, Antony/Sancho.
 
colombianmancunian said:
RVP wasn’t fast and still won us the league. Regardless, he will have speed surrounding him with Rashford/Garnacho, Bruno, Antony/Sancho.
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Yeah perhaps he wants a striker who can provide playmaking abilities along with being a prolific goalscorer as well
 
colombianmancunian said:
RVP wasn’t fast and still won us the league. Regardless, he will have speed surrounding him with Rashford/Garnacho, Bruno, Antony/Sancho.
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I don’t have an issue with our CF lacking pace, I’m just a bit concerned that we’re building a starting 11 of slow players. Out of the players you mentioned, only Rashford and Garnacho would be considered fast imo (relative to the position they play) and the likelihood of both of them starting a match is slim. We lack a bit of speed/mobility in defence and midfield too I think, and looking at a lot of the players we’ve targeted so far, I worry that it may become a bit of an issue.
 
Woziak said:
So £495m becomes £415 on loss and servicing debt, we buy osimhen on £125m with a £12.5m agent fee, on a 5 year contract which amortises his sale value at £25m per year, we sell Dean Henderson for £25m on a 5 year contract, United only receive a £5m profit per year in amortised sales as the player did not cost the club anything. We also sell Harry Maguire who has two years of his contract left, we bought him for £80m, amortise on a 6 year contract of £16m per year which we are still paying and have to pay. We sell Maguire for £32m on a 2 year contract and receive £16m per year for 2 years amortised this means that by selling him this summer, it does help but not as much as selling players like Scott Mctominay and Dean Henderson who cost the club nothing.

The recent accounts showing the club owes something like £300m plus In amortised payments plus the debt is why Uefa want to eradicate this from the game but this will take time. So buying Osimhen and selling Henderson would be £20m net transfer position added to the agent fee of £12.5m, added to running costs and yearly debt £80m plus wages of £325m is £437.5m and potentially there would be room for more players to be bought providing we actually have the cash in the bank and are not paying dividends to six glazier siblings which also would be added to running costs and included in that 90%.

The following year the problem is critical as 80% is all that is allowed against turnover, if the glaziers stay and saddle us with more debt and higher interest payments, and the club starts to default on amortised payments then we will be sanctioned and potentially banned for one or two transfer windows. There’s no way under the Glaziers we could spend more than £80-100m in 2024/25 season and probably £50-60m in 25/26 summer when the threshold changes to 70%.
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You don't amortise player sales. The full value of the sale hits the profit and loss account the year the deal is done.
And any unamortised purchase price left is also charged in full when a player is sold.
In both cases, the accounting principle is that you can't amortise the value of an asset that you don't own anymore.

I think you might be confusing amortisation of capital assets with transfer fee installment payments. Transfer fees paid out are for a capital asset (a players registration) and this is always evenly amortised over the length of their contract. The guarenteed element of a transfer fee (i.e. exlcuding any bonus clauses) can be paid in full or in installments but whatever payment structure is agreed has no bearing on how the fee hits the P&L - purchases are amortised over the contract, sales are accounted in full immediatly.
 
teague said:
You don't amortise player sales. The full value of the sale hits the profit and loss account the year the deal is done.
And any unamortised purchase price left is also charged in full when a player is sold.
In both cases, the accounting principle is that you can't amortise the value of an asset that you don't own anymore.

I think you might be confusing amortisation of capital assets with transfer fee installment payments. Transfer fees paid out are for a capital asset (a players registration) and this is always evenly amortised over the length of their contract. The guarenteed element of a transfer fee (i.e. exlcuding any bonus clauses) can be paid in full or in installments but whatever payment structure is agreed has no bearing on how the fee hits the P&L - purchases are amortised over the contract, sales are accounted in full immediatly.
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I think you might be right with me confusing transfer payments, and sales of capital assets however if we spend £80m upfront in one payment not 4 for Harry Kane this summer then only £20m would be added to wages, if he signs on a 4 year contract plus Agent fees and running costs. I understand the player is a capital asset so you right down his value over the length of his contract and when you sell a player you receive all that transfer fund even though you may not get paid all of the payment upfront however there must be, even on player sales a net position where you subtract the cost of acquiring the player from the sale of the player as he is an asset that has a cost to the club unless you have developed the player from the youth set up then he has no cost and you can include the full sales value.

This is what I was trying to convey selling someone like Dean Henderson for £20m is £20m in our accounts line, we will be paid £20m in that current year on the accounts whether the payment is upfront or amortised but other players that cost the club money like A Teles where we still have amortised payments to fulfil, how is that worked out when you sell a player and have not paid his transfer fee in full and more importantly how much of the £300m we owe in these payments are for asset that no longer belong to the club?
 
croadyman said:
Barella because chasing De Jong is a waste
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Agree that chasing Frenkie is a waste.

Re: Barella - Haven't watched too much of him. Seen comparisons to Gerrard previously. How would you compare him stylistically?

Do you think he's gettable from Inter?
 
jamesjimmybyrondean said:
We need to create a team that can keep possession while remaining attack minded.

Felix - 100m
Kovacic - 45m
Timber - 60m
Raya - 20m

Felix
Rahsford Sancho Bruno
Kovacic Casemiro
Shaw Martinez Varane Timber
Raya​
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Where do I sign? (although I am fairly certain ETH never would go with Sancho over Antony)
 
Messier1994 said:
Where do I sign? (although I am fairly certain ETH never would go with Sancho over Antony)
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Agreed. And that would mean Bruno as the AM. I just want us to stop losing the ball carelessly and Bruno doesn't help with that. Our midfielders have the lowest pass completion among the big six
 
Not gonna lie, after the ownership situation get sorted out, I think the club should make a big push for Reece James.
 
A “budget” alternative I would be really pleased with.

Signings:
Gavi — Free transfer
Arijanet Muric — 20m
Anel Ahmedhodžić — 30m
Rasmus Højlund — 45m (release clause (according to some sources))
Manuel Ugarte — 50m (release clause)
Wout Weghorst — 20m
Total: 165m

Outgoing:
Maguire
Henderson
Martial
Donny
McTominay
Elanga
Telles
Bailly
Total: 105m (and a lot of salary cut)

ST: Hojlund / Weghorst
LW: Rashford / Garnacho
AMC: Bruno / Sancho
RW: Antony / Diallo
MC: Gavi / Eriksen
DMC: Casemiro / Ugarte
LD: Shaw / Malacia
LCB: Martinez / Lindelof
RCB: Varane / Ahmedhodžić
GK: DDG / Muricic
Extra: Mejbri, Pellestri, Alvaro Fernandez, Laird
 
Ins
Kim Jae Min or Gvardoil
Jermaine Frimpong
Frankie De Jong or Declan Rice
Osimhen or Kane


outs
Maguire
Dalot or AWB
Mctominey
Van De Beek
Weghorst
 
We should go for Declan Rice.

He can cover, and play with Casemiro.
 
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