So your answer is yes, you'd discount looking at the broader context. Imagine picking Maguire over Koulibaly in a vacuum, couldn't be me (or anyone else with their head screwed on right).
‘Elite’ hipster CBs vs Maguire & Lindelöf
- Thread starter sammsky1
- Start date
So your answer is yes, you'd discount looking at the broader context. Imagine picking Maguire over Koulibaly in a vacuum, couldn't be me (or anyone else with their head screwed on right).
Ah yes hipster CB Varane, who *checks notes* was the most hyped young defender probably of the last 10 years when he arrived on the scene, then has played for the World Cup winning France and Champions League dominating Real Madrid, consistently starting for the two most dominant and well-known teams on the planet.
What other hipster players should we go for? Neymar? I've heard this guy Lewandowski is pretty good but might be a bit too hipster.
What other hipster players should we go for? Neymar? I've heard this guy Lewandowski is pretty good but might be a bit too hipster.
Do you go around in normal life so flippantly accusing people of being racist?
Maguire cost £80m. Safe to say, he's not faultless. I'd be very surprised if Real would rather Maguire than Varane or if Napoli would rather Lindelof than Koulibali. Also, I'd be amazed if many outside this forum seriously thought our 2 CBs would do better against Napoli or City. You can cherry pick 2 games where both lost but that doesn't mean our CBs are better than them.
Ironically, in the OP, both Varane and Koulibali are criticised based on a knee jerk reaction to them having a bad game.
Maguire and Lindelof are decent but they're not fantastic.
Afaik, some people here use it as a way of dismissing players much higher rated than our own. Basically if you think a non-United player is better than a United player, then you're a "hipster". It's daft.
What are you on about mate? Chelsea needs centre back right, will you spend 80m to sign Koulibaly now? I would like to see your answer.
Exactly. I don't much rate these hipster faves like Messi, Mbappe or Benzema. Give me Lingard any day.
How many goals has Messi scored for United? 0.
How many has Lingard scored? 33.
33-0. Take that hipsters.
I'd absolutely spend 80m on Koulibaly before I spent it on Maguire. Also if my life is on the line tomorrow and I have to gamble on the outcome of a football match, I'd feel much better with Koulibaly on my side than Maguire.
Both Varane and Koulibaly are better than Maguire and Lindelof. One bad game or one bad season is not enough to say our defenders are better. Going by that logic then there are alot of wingers better than Hazard
Why is Maguire need to be involved here? Maguire cost 80m last summer not this summer. This summer the one who cost 80m is Koulibaly not Maguire. A 29 years old centre back who is performing worse than Maguire this season.
Oh of course Maguire need to be involved. It's people agenda.
Nonsense of a thread
I mean WTF?!
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Isn't a hipster signing more like when half of this site were excited by the prospect of signing Ron Vlaar?
Worth mentioning though that CBs are nowhere near the quality they used to be. Ferdinand, Vidic, Puyol, Cannavaro, Nesta, Thiago Silva, Lucio, Terry, Hummels and a younger Chiellini and Boating are all head and shoulders above any CB on the planet today.
EDIT: To add context to that second comment there - blowing nine figures or so on a CB is only going to produce marginal gains. Our CBs may not be the best in the world, but they're not so far behind as to be the area of greatest concern.
Worth mentioning though that CBs are nowhere near the quality they used to be. Ferdinand, Vidic, Puyol, Cannavaro, Nesta, Thiago Silva, Lucio, Terry, Hummels and a younger Chiellini and Boating are all head and shoulders above any CB on the planet today.
EDIT: To add context to that second comment there - blowing nine figures or so on a CB is only going to produce marginal gains. Our CBs may not be the best in the world, but they're not so far behind as to be the area of greatest concern.
Koulibaly is a decent cb but people obviously hasn't watched him to know that his positioning isn't good. He gets dragged out of position but makes up with his speed and physicality.
He has not looked good this season without Albiol who used to dictate the defense and basically lead koulibaly at times.
He has not looked good this season without Albiol who used to dictate the defense and basically lead koulibaly at times.
Take your issues up with the OP of the thread, he's the one who made the comparison. I'm just responding to this embarrassing thread.
You replied to my post, you have the issue not me.
I asked simple question about the current market, you brought up Maguire's last summer market. You don't compare this summer market with last summer market. Koulibaly was 130m last summer!
Your welcome to your opinion but Pep and many many others with far better footballing acumen than you vehemently disagree with you. There is literally no-one of worth who would make the same decision. Else somebody would have bought koulibali for £80m by now.
Just saying.
The title of this thread is literally
‘Elite’ hipster CBs vs Maguire & Lindelöf
You having issues with me staying on point and responding to the essence of the thread is on you, not me.
Right, that's why Koulibaly looks nailed on for a transfer to Man City this summer?
Worth remembering that football acumen genius Pep turned down Maguire at 80m last year. Or is his opinion only meaningful when it suits your narrative?
You replied to my post ffs! If what you are moaning about is something else unrelated then don't quote me in.
And yet city haven’t signed him and took Ake instead?
Pep couldn’t afford £80m as he said himself.
you are well aware of both points so these are rather silly deflections.
It's not Pep who turned down Maguire, it's the club who won't pay. City isn't willing to pay 80m for Koulibaly, if it was nailed on for 80m they would have pay him now.
Literally our first interaction on this thread is you responding to a throwaway post I made:
Stop taking things so seriously and learn to admit that your players aren't always the bee's knees. No actual neutral who knows their arse from their elbow would take Maguire over Koulibaly in a million years.
What? You think because City have signed Ake they're out for Koulibaly? One of Otamendi / Stones is done for; Ake was always a signing as a backup LCB / LB / CM utility player. After Laporte went down City suffered immensely because they had no left footed CB and Pep was always keen to get a backup in.
Koulibaly would be signed as the partner for Laporte as the RCB. Signing Ake has no bearing on whether City are signing KK, especially since Napoli were still in the CL and thus obviously a deal wouldn't be done.
Their season literally ended about 5 hours ago. How on earth are you arguing that City not paying 80m before the season is even over is evidence that the transfer isn't going to happen? The window is open for 2 more months
WTF? Why are you bring up an old argument that supposed to be end of discussion just to suit your argument.
You even admit that you made mistake so you posted this and you understood why I replied to your post. Blame yourself, don't blame me.
You replied to my post of De Ligt video. Don't start talking about different discussion!
Their season literally ended about 5 hours ago. How on earth are you arguing that City not paying 80m before the season is even over is evidence that the transfer isn't going to happen? The window is open for 2 more months
City valued him for 20m below of the asking price. What are you on about? That's why it's not nailed on mate.
Given that Maguire is a young English defender, I don't know what makes you think he'd be overly criticised by the media.
This thread obviously isn't about who you'd buy on a transfer; it's about who is the better player. That said, you ignored this question:
So when evaluating players as a neutral, you'd discount the experience of a player (call him player A) who for the 3 years prior was involved with title races in Serie A, consistent CL appearances, and was universally lauded as a top player at his position versus a player B who in the 3 years prior was poor enough to be loaned out from one championship club to another championship club during a promotion push, got relegated with the parent club upon being promoted, then played for a 9th place side. Given all of that context, having seen one season subsequently where the latter player did better whilst playing in a settled system under one manager, you'd be comfortable saying that player B is better?
Do you really think that one year is enough to cement a player as being definitively better than one who has played at the top level for multiple years beforehand?
They have 2 more months to negotiate! That's obviously their opening bid - just as a parallel Chelsea initially bid 45m for Havertz. You take an aggressive position initially in any negotiation, this is basic stuff.
Pep has openly spoken about how he wanted to sign Maguire literally a few weeks ago
Yes and the price tag was obtrusive. Just like it was for Koulibaly last year for City.
I've no doubt Pep would have hoovered up Maguire at anything below 55-60m. AdL was asking for 100m plus for Koulibaly last year - given City were trying to stay on the up and up with the FFP ban, they obviously weren't going to go all out on a CB and were looking for budget options. Once it became clear that Leicester were insisting on an 80m pricetag, City bowed out. Yes, they'd have been happy with Maguire but he certainly wasn't the end all be all for them.
The reason why this thread is created because people were moaning about Maguire & Lindelof made mistakes this season and fans want to sign a new centre back for an obvious upgrade, it's not about evaluating players as a neutral.
Again, dodging the question. I can respect that because if I were on record as saying I'd prefer someone like Zouma over Koulibaly I'd never live it down.
You are asking a question that doesn't related to the thread. Anyone know Zouma has been shite this season mate, the guy struggling to be constant regular and you expect him to play over Koulibaly.
TIL if you play outside of England you are a hipster footballer and not actually elite.
I mean you can certainly argue that going forward.
Hazard has likely peaked and Chelsea sold him at the right time.
Standard levels of CBs nowadays have dropped unfortunately.
Varane is still an elite level though (unless he became a DeGea and start performing like "that" consistently now onwards). I don't think Koulibaly is elite CB, nor Maguire. No way Lindelof is anywhere close either.
OP is basically saying we should give more respects to Mag and Lind, but unfortunately by underrating other players and overrating ours. They had a good season this time overall. They are good at 6-7 usually, but can still make howlers, their weaknesses are clear and limiting them to an extent. Like always, many of our fans tend to criticise our players harshly and say better things about (=overrate) other players.
Varane is still an elite level though (unless he became a DeGea and start performing like "that" consistently now onwards). I don't think Koulibaly is elite CB, nor Maguire. No way Lindelof is anywhere close either.
OP is basically saying we should give more respects to Mag and Lind, but unfortunately by underrating other players and overrating ours. They had a good season this time overall. They are good at 6-7 usually, but can still make howlers, their weaknesses are clear and limiting them to an extent. Like always, many of our fans tend to criticise our players harshly and say better things about (=overrate) other players.
Indeed. I have no idea what he is debating and why it’s relevant.
You perfectly summarised my OP in your previous post.
Why sign Lewandowski and Neymar when we can sign Ings and Jimenez?